How do you know the jelly donuts line didn't come from the original writer, considering no one here knew what onigiri were?
Because, using my eyes, I can see that Brock is clearly holding an onigiri, and using my common sense, I can understand that he wouldn't refer to it as anything else in the original version. I don't need to know the original language to understand that a terrible change has been made, though of course it would help on the finer intricacies of any writing. That's kind of my point – when localizers make such drastic changes that even someone like me who doesn't speak Japanese understands that they've changed something, they're
really screwed up.
The only way to achieve this would be having the original writer do the script for each language it's published in. No one else can know what process he went through to come up with the text to begin with, what experiences he unknowingly drew from, or what non-Japanese words he'd really like to use.
That is absolutely and 100% not the case. Accurate Japanese-to-English translations
do exist – I'm looking at several examples on my bookshelf right now – so clearly it can be done. I know that these translations are accurate because they're produced by people who don't have a financial, ideological, and internet-ego-based motivation to deceive me, nor will they openly brag about doing so and smugly insult anyone who disagrees. (If I really choose to, I can also consult Japanese-speakers who I trust.)
Yes, I don't speak the language, so I can't verify it myself, but I also don't know how a computer works, and I'm still using one to type out this message, because I know the people who made it did a very good job and I trust them to carry my words to you. Japanese-to-English fansubbers make translations all the time without altering or removing anything at all, and they're just kids doing this shit for free on the internet.
Why are paid professionals worse than that?
A compromise would be having a team to constantly peer-review each other, but that led to this entire thread.
As long as every one of these people is generally trustworthy and effective at their jobs, I'd say there's no problem! The issue is that, as we've seen countless times – especially in the Japanese-to-English pop culture translations – they
aren't. They're smug, insufferable idiots who care more about pissing off evil internet bullies than they do about doing their job properly. They used to get away with this, but now that an immediate solution has appeared, they're desperately scrambling to retake any last semblance of goodwill before their jobs are permanently destroyed. It won't work!
As for dubs, I'll gladly take that over unintelligible foreign voice 1, unintelligible foreign voice 2, and unintelligible foreign voice 3, as you said at the start of your post.
THAT, FAIR SIR, IS WHERE WE DISAGREE
Now, I don't think we're to judge but what if the creators themselves think so and remove or alter stuff in re-releases? Do we insist on them adding everything back in or not? I'm not sure it's a rabbit hole I'm prepared to go down but I don't think I want anyone to go George Lucas on their games.
This is a completely different argument fit for another thread, so I won't confuse the matter here. If the original creators release
a different version of a work after an original has already been released, it should be judged as its own thing. "Localizations" that alter content are already different versions of an original, so... yeah, I'm gonna judge them as such, and very harshly at that!
Here's a couple more: A lot of people enjoy Working Designs localizations, nasty difficulty tinkering notwithstanding. I don't think we can reasonably expect publishers to shell out for multiple localizations of every single game so what do we do? Do we go for maximum accuracy or do we placate those who like a sprinkle of creativity? I feel that some creative liberty would be acceptable so long as the original meaning is preserved but it's, as you said, a matter of taste.
I mean, I guess we kind of can expect multiple translations because it's been done before (see Discotek's recent release of Bobobo Bo-Bobobo, which contains both the original Japanese version subbed accurately and the altered English dub), but if that isn't feasible, why would you
ever want anything other than the original? Why would you see a Japanese game and think "gee, I hope that fits my Western sensibilities"? You know it's from another culture – why wouldn't you expect to, you know, experience that other culture? If you
do want a Western game... play one! I'd like something different, which is why I play Japanese games in the first place.
Another good example is the Ghost Stories dub. It has barely anything to do with the original script other than the basic plotline but it's laugh out loud hilarious and has its share of fans.
That's all well and good – I like the Samurai Pizza Cats dub a lot, myself – but
what if I want to watch the original version of Ghost Stories? What if I don't care about all the sophomoric poop jokes, and want to see what the original story was about? If I'm a paying customer, why wouldn't I demand that I'm going to receive the thing I expected when I bought the thing, not some unrelated dipshit's fanfiction?
Here's another example: the Japanese version of Transformers: Beast Wars was given a gag dub that changed all the writing. It was a hit in Japan when it first aired, but it completely fucked over the franchise there going forward, because, from that point on, everyone just thought the whole series was poop-joke nonsense. That was an unfair assessment, because those gags
weren't in the original version, and now the brand's been permanently damaged. I hope those jelly donuts were worth it!
I'm glad we've moved on from that approach.
I'M NOT!!!!! There's a reason Shakespeare is high literature and video games will always be electronic TV toys for children and fools. (I'm joking, but Jesus Christ, just translate the game accurately, please.)
This one hearkens back to being culturally sensitive.
You'll never win me over on this, because at the end of the day, this is entertainment – people
choose to experience it, and are absolutely prepared to see what they're going to see. If I watch
September 11th, Two-Thousand Fun and get offended by them making fun of 9/11, I'm an idiot.
This one is about localizing Abe's Oddysee for the Japanese market. Was this OK?
Absolutely not, and I guarantee you there is a Japanese version of Gorse who wanted to play the original, unaltered version of the game, and will likely have to hunt down an English .ISO to do so. Why shouldn't that person get the original game? Because it would offend people? Who cares? Are Japanese peoples' heads going to explode if something
slightly touchy comes up? Are Americans'? Of course not. We're all adults, here – we can take it. The kids can, too.
I can see how you could say it's silly because any event that's current now will probably be irrelevant 5 years down the line.
That too. If you talk to a Japanese kid today about the Kobe child murders, they'll have no idea what you're talking about and have no valid reason for why the game was changed.
I think most of us remember that Mortal Kombat Deception had to be renamed in France because in French 'deception' means 'disappointment'.
Them's the breaks, fuckos! Sometimes, words sound similar to other things in different cultures, and you'll just need to deal with it. If you've ever listened to any K-Pop, you'll know that there's a very common N-word that use they almost sounds like... well, you know. Should we ban all K-Pop singers from using that word? Of course not! If the Mortal Kombat developers really cared that much about the French market (I assure you they don't), they should have done more research during the naming and marketing of their game. If they didn't, it's not good to pass the punishment onto the (paying) consumer.
