What are your guy's thoughts on Japanese Game Developers on using AI translations?

[Strategist]

Perhaps political bias wasn't the right term but i didn't really want to use "woke" for this, what i remember specifically was removing some gendered language (he did this vs they did this kind of thing), a specific sexualized dialogue was altered and a ton of, i hate using this term but, "zoomer slang" was inserted where it made no sense especially for a game set in a fantasy story.
Nexus mods has examples in the translation patch for the script to be more closer to the japanese script:

Eiyuden Chronicles Translation Fixes

This mod makes changes to the official English localization.

www.nexusmods.com

Yeah I ask for the benefit of those who aren't aware of the controversy because there is zero political talk in Eiiyuden Chronicles, at least from what I've seen. And yet people keep parroting these points without verifying. I'm not against people criticizing localization choices. I do think some of the choices in EC deserve to be categorized as odd and potentially "zoomer talk" but to politicize this issue is irresponsible.

As for the sales numbers, during it's release there were mentions from the translator how they were upset being blamed for the game's poor sales in the english speaking areas on steam, sorry but finding the post would be difficult, it was also mentioned in a few news articles but i'm blanking on them atm, so you can disregard that if you want, but it was widely mentioned around the game's release.

I think I've seen some articles of people blaming the poor sales on the localization, but that doesn't prove that it was the main culprit. For some people it may be the case, but also consider that it was a spiritual sequel to a niche rpg and it reviewed poorly. Plus it also had serious performance issues on launch, particularly on the Switch which is the main platform for JRPGs. It could one of those things or a combination of all of them.

 

[Leon]

Yeah I ask for the benefit of those who aren't aware of the controversy because there is zero political talk in Eiiyuden Chronicles, at least from what I've seen. And yet people keep parroting these points without verifying. I'm not against people criticizing localization choices. I do think some of the choices in EC deserve to be categorized as odd and potentially "zoomer talk" but to politicize this issue is irresponsible.



I think I've seen some articles of people blaming the poor sales on the localization, but that doesn't prove that it was the main culprit. For some people it may be the case, but also consider that it was a spiritual sequel to a niche rpg and it reviewed poorly. Plus it also had serious performance issues on launch, particularly on the Switch which is the main platform for JRPGs. It could one of those things or a combination of all of them.

While i understand your take, there is some political words used, specifically the word "chud" is used in a place where it was not needed, chud is a derogatory term used against politically conservative americans (though i believe it's started to be used throughout the english speaking world for conservative/right politcal ideology, not just the american right anymore), as i said it's not as bad as the zoomer slang, but there definitely is some in the game, the only real question is if it was malicious/politically intended, either way the changes definitely had a effect considering the outrage, that said EC:HH by games that came out later like concord and dragon age the veilguard's controversies which likely had a much bigger effect on the japanese gaming industry seeing how badly they were being effected by western backlash against these games, though it's likely been multiple things, not just a single example.

As for sales, well that's a impossible thing to measure unless they outright admit something caused it, that said the "niche" nature of the game for me is not a good argument, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night was a example of a niche game and it sold quite well, that said it will be better measured when the remasters of suikoden 1 and 2 come out early next year to compare it's sales, as best as we can at least, can compare it to.

 

[Strategist]

Chud is not a political term. It is a generic insult for a dullard that may be used for anyone. I've seen liberals being called chuds and soybois online. The discourse regarding localization is so toxic right now that people are willing to see politics in anything. I also don't recall seeing that word usage in any of the controversies regarding EC but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Gorse]

The severity of the problem is where the disagreements come.

OK, let's go down this line of thinking, then. Where do you draw the line? At 25% changes in translation? 50%? 15%? 75%? A cut outfit? A cut gameplay mechanic? I would certainly hope you aren't alright with censorship in areas that you disagree with ideologically, because that would be completely disingenuous. That's the thing about censorship – once anything is censored, changed, or removed, the entire work then becomes a censored, altered, inferior product. It's an all-or-nothing thing, which is why I actually do think the problem is pretty goshdarned severe.

No, you made the claim that ALL translators are hacks and social activists.

I said, verbatim:

I've never known a Japanese-to-English translator who wasn't a generally insufferable person

And I stand by that argument, because I've literally never seen it disproven. I've never – in all my years on the Internet – known of a Japanese-to-English translator who wasn't some petty, passive-aggressive, insufferable ding-dong who actively hated their audience and proudly professed to doing so (before pitching a storm about the latest political issue du jour, of course). I would LOVE to see otherwise – I'm a reasonable guy certainly open to having my mind changed – but I doubt I will. Again, I'm sure, if there's any goodness left in this world, that some must be decent, professional, well-spoken individuals translating Japanese material into English, but I've certainly never seen them, which is what I said.

I don't doubt that some day we will have the technology to translate everything perfectly without the need of humans. That day hasn't arrived yet and won't be arriving anytime soon.

Regardless of what you do or don't doubt, AI translations are already at the point where they can translate media better than real people, as is the subject of this thread. It doesn't have to be perfect – it just has to be better than the competition. Clearly, many developers now think it is.

Fan hacks don't have the money for anything other than AI translations

Wh-... A-... But-... are you serious? Fan translations have existed since the mid-1990s, and ChatGPT only came out in late 2022!

But I don't think it is an acceptable replacement for quality prose written by an expert.

Funny – I could make the exact same argument for translators altering a video game! Remember: the writer of the original game is the professional writer (i.e. someone employed professionally to write, or make art or whatever), and the translator isn't.

I didn't mean to assign blame to any particular party. [...] And Hillary Clinton is particularly conservative when it comes to many social issues.

Oh, interesting.

Yup everyone who disagrees with you is snide, smarmy, smug and a manipulator, got it. Solid arguments!

Strategist, read this over again. Do you not see the hypocrisy, here? Do you not understand that this is quite literally the exact thing I'm talking about? Your comment is snide, smarmy, smug, and manipulative! If you don't realize that, I genuinely don't know what to tell you.

This is one of the few constructive arguments you've made in this post.

Here's the most constructive one: AI translators are better than human ones, and Japanese developers should replace their employees with them. Bzzt!

Propose to us how you'd translate that joke properly to a Spanish speaking audience.

I would, but, hey – I'm not employed as a professional translator! Maybe AI would do a better job at translating that joke. I'm sure the end result would be better than anything a human could do, because the human wouldn't be translating it, they'd be removing, then replacing it. Again, if you're OK with people removing then replacing something, I can do that for you easy, but you'll have to pay me what these localizers are getting paid.

Seems weird to gatekeep English localization when people all over the world are forced to use it to consume Japanese media.

I'm not "gatekeeping" anything, I'm stating the very clear, very hard reality of the situation. If non-English speakers want to consume content made for English-speaking audiences, that's fine, but you're very clearly not the target audience. (Also: You're not forced to do anything. People make Japanese-to-[NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE] translations all the time.)

And they have valid reasons to do so.

I don't disagree with the "valid" ones (I haven't seen any presented, yet), I disagree with the people who make smug, passive-aggressive non-arguments to win internet conversations, because those people actively make entertainment media worse. In my humblest of opinions, of course.

Like I posted before, the face rubbing wasn't removed, it was toned down in the American version.

How do you think they "toned it down"? By applying a soft filter to all the characters, so we wouldn't see their wrinkles? According to FE: Fate's page on the Censorship wiki, Nintendo removed:

• The face-rubbing minigame. They removed it. It isn't in the English version of the game. The English version of the game has less content than the Japanese one. Even if you are an ideologue, that's sickening – they charged the same amount for less!
• The ability to pan around the camera during bath scenes. What if I wanted to see stuff in other areas during those scenes? I can't, in the English version!
• Certain outfits that were seemed inappropriate (for imaginary cartoon dragon girls). Again, these weren't "toned down" – they aren't in the game.

And about a trillion other things – it's actually really depressing! Again, for the reasons I've stated, there's no reason to believe that "Nintendo" would do this – they certainly didn't in the previous Fire Emblem game! It was the undeniable fault of the English "localizers", as it always is – if they didn't edit the game's code themselves, they collaborated with and consulted the person who did (who is also to blame, but for different reasons). I'd actually love to see one of these localizers – preferably a idealogically-motivated one, to ensure complete neutrality – come out publicly against this censorship, even when they agree with it, but funnily, they never do.

But hey, Fire Emblem is a dumb old game from a million years ago, right? How about we look at the recent Dead Rising remaster from this year, instead, which removed achievements from the camera minigame because you could peep down chicks' blouses? That was included in the original game, so Capcom's developers clearly wanted it then! Funny, then, that it was only removed in a "remaster" by an American team.

Of course, you could also look at the recent Power Stone collection, again from this year, which has certain end-scenes altered or removed outright due to "cultural issues" – again, they were in the original versions of the game, but when re-released by an American team, they're gone! How far do you want to go with this? Because I can do it all day.

The discourse regarding localization is so toxic right now that people are willing to see politics in anything.

I'd love – love – for this issue to not be politically-motivated, because I personally feel censorship isn't a political issue, and that opposition to it benefits every single person in this world. But you can't deny that people who are pro-censorship, and many (in my opinion, pretty much all) of the people making these alterations also aren't the kind of people who are also heavily into politics on the internet. If you do, you're ignoring reality.

 

[Strategist]

OK, let's go down this line of thinking, then. Where do you draw the line? At 25% changes in translation? 50%? 15%? 75%? A cut outfit? A cut gameplay mechanic? I would certainly hope you aren't alright with censorship in areas that you disagree with ideologically, because that would be completely disingenuous. That's the thing about censorship – once anything is censored, changed, or removed, the entire work then becomes a censored, altered, inferior product. It's an all-or-nothing thing, which is why I actually do think the problem is pretty goshdarned severe.

Its not a percentage, it is a case by case basis. A joke may need to be rewritten completely if there's no appropriate analogue in the language. Also rewrites may be necessary to communicate a tone or a characterization. For example, the way a young person communicates in Japan is different from how a young person would communicate in English.

And I've made it clear that I don't agree with censorship. I have explained why it happens and why it has (in most cases) very little to do with the translators. But don't misinterpret that as a pro-censorship argument.

I said, verbatim:


And I stand by that argument, because I've literally never seen it disproven. I've never – in all my years on the Internet – known of a Japanese-to-English translator who wasn't some petty, passive-aggressive, insufferable ding-dong who actively hated their audience and proudly professed to doing so (before pitching a storm about the latest political issue du jour, of course). I would LOVE to see otherwise – I'm a reasonable guy certainly open to having my mind changed – but I doubt I will. Again, I'm sure, if there's any goodness left in this world, that some must be decent, professional, well-spoken individuals translating Japanese material into English, but I've certainly never seen them, which is what I said.

I showed you one former translator who wasn't like that. Alexander O Smith. He worked on the localization for Vagrant Story and also FFX and FFXII.

Regardless of what you do or don't doubt, AI translations are already at the point where they can translate media better than real people, as is the subject of this thread. It doesn't have to be perfect – it just has to be better than the competition. Clearly, many developers now think it is.

I haven't seen the proof for that, especially when it comes to Japanese to English translation. I'd love for it to be true as it would allow me to play all the import Japanese games I desire, but it isn't the case from what I've seen. I think it that were really the case companies wouldn't hesitate to switch over to AI as it would be a lot cheaper. They haven't so far so the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

Wh-... A-... But-... are you serious? Fan translations have existed since the mid-1990s, and ChatGPT only came out in late 2022!

True, I should've been more clear. Fans can always become experts in the language and do the translations themselves. And they often prefer to do that over machine translation when given the choice.

Funny – I could make the exact same argument for translators altering a video game! Remember: the writer of the original game is the professional writer (i.e. someone employed professionally to write, or make art or whatever), and the translator isn't.

The writer often works directly with the translator to provide the English translation. For example Alexander O. Smith worked directly with Yasumi Matsuno to localize Vagrant Story. Matsuno directly requested a flavorful, Shakespearean style localization for his project. He didn't see the value in literal translation that you do.

Oh, interesting.


Strategist, read this over again. Do you not see the hypocrisy, here? Do you not understand that this is quite literally the exact thing I'm talking about? Your comment is snide, smarmy, smug, and manipulative! If you don't realize that, I genuinely don't know what to tell you.

If you expect me to take insults from and not respond, then I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps if you toned down your language you wouldn't get these snide comments back.

I would, but, hey – I'm not employed as a professional translator! Maybe AI would do a better job at translating that joke. I'm sure the end result would be better than anything a human could do, because the human wouldn't be translating it, they'd be removing, then replacing it. Again, if you're OK with people removing then replacing something, I can do that for you easy, but you'll have to pay me what these localizers are getting paid.

Try it out yourself. See how google translate or chat gpt translates jokes.

I'm not "gatekeeping" anything, I'm stating the very clear, very hard reality of the situation. If non-English speakers want to consume content made for English-speaking audiences, that's fine, but you're very clearly not the target audience. (Also: You're not forced to do anything. People make Japanese-to-[NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGE] translations all the time.)

Says you? I'm perfectly fluent in English and can't speak a lick of Japanese. How am I not the target audience? And no, there aren't that many Spanish translations as you'd think, although they are becoming more common.

I don't disagree with the "valid" ones (I haven't seen any presented, yet), I disagree with the people who make smug, passive-aggressive non-arguments to win internet conversations, because those people actively make entertainment media worse. In my humblest of opinions, of course.

Seems like you are too fixated on the tone of arguments and not the message. What if I told you that some may interpret your tone as smug and condescending?

How do you think they "toned it down"? By applying a soft filter to all the characters, so we wouldn't see their wrinkles? According to FE: Fate's page on the Censorship wiki, Nintendo removed:

• The face-rubbing minigame. They removed it. It isn't in the English version of the game. The English version of the game has less content than the Japanese one. Even if you are an ideologue, that's sickening – they charged the same amount for less!
• The ability to pan around the camera during bath scenes. What if I wanted to see stuff in other areas during those scenes? I can't, in the English version!
• Certain outfits that were seemed inappropriate (for imaginary cartoon dragon girls). Again, these weren't "toned down" – they aren't in the game.

And about a trillion other things – it's actually really depressing! Again, for the reasons I've stated, there's no reason to believe that "Nintendo" would do this – they certainly didn't in the previous Fire Emblem game! It was the undeniable fault of the English "localizers", as it always is – if they didn't edit the game's code themselves, they collaborated with and consulted the person who did (who is also to blame, but for different reasons). I'd actually love to see one of these localizers – preferably a idealogically-motivated one, to ensure complete neutrality – come out publicly against this censorship, even when they agree with it, but funnily, they never do.

But hey, Fire Emblem is a dumb old game from a million years ago, right? How about we look at the recent Dead Rising remaster from this year, instead, which removed the camera minigame because you could peep down chicks' blouses? That was included in the original game, so Capcom's developers clearly wanted it then! Funny, then, that it was only removed in a "remaster" by an American team. Of course, you could also look at the recent Power Stone collection, again from this year, which has scenes full-on removed due to "cultural issues" – again, they were in the original versions of the game, but when re-released by an American team, they're gone! How far do you want to go with this? Because I can do it all day.

I'm not defending those changes but I am going to push back on blaming localizers for these things. I've already stated my case as to why and I believe I have more experience than you on this topic of software development.

I'd love – love – for this issue to not be politically-motivated, because I personally feel censorship isn't a political issue, and that opposition to it benefits every single person in this world. But you can't deny that people who are pro-censorship, and many (in my opinion, pretty much all) of the people making these alterations also aren't the kind of people who are also heavily into politics on the internet. If you do, you're ignoring reality.

I doubt you'd find many people who are pro-censorship on the internet. I think you are misconstruing what censorship is. Any localization change, no matter how valid, is censorship to you. Many will disagree with that.

 

[Gorse]

@Strategist, I truly respect you for engaging with me for this long, because we clearly disagree with one another on a fundamental level, but there's no way this conversation can continue when we're just stating our opposing opinions back and forth at each other. You, and that video you posted, haven't convinced me, because I've seen (and posted!) real-world evidence to the contrary, and I value that most of all. Anything else I could say to you would just be some variation on what I've already said, with the same sources and examples, or the phrase "I disagree" stated in various different ways.

To close, for you and anyone else reading, here are my own, personal, individual final thoughts on the matter:

• I want translated video games to be as accurate as possible to their original versions. The source language can be Japanese, Spanish, Bulgarian, or anything else – I want to experience the original writing of the game, so that I can judge it, not what someone else has made up.
• Personally, I'm optimistic about the future of AI for Japanese-to-English translations, because I'm confident they'll do a better job – in all areas – than current "localizers" do. I think that, right now, AI translations are impressively good, and I look forward to seeing how they improve going ahead.
• If you're a smug, condescending, ideologically-motivated Japanese-to-English "localizer" – let's narrow that down and say if you're a professional Japanese-to-English translator who regularly posts content that certain segments of your audience finds inflammatory – then you're not coming to my birthday party. There's going to be cake and a clown, but you'll miss it.

I'm not saying anyone else needs to agree with me, but I am saying that this is what I genuinely believe based on what I've seen myself – not what other people have told me. In addition to continuing to hold these beliefs, I'll likely continue discussing them publicly on the Internet, and I'll criticize poor-quality translations where I care to. If anyone has a problem with that, they can... well... they can post about it online.

 

[berkough]

You only need to look at something like Dragon Quest, Valkyria Chronicles, Unicorn Overlord, or anything from modern Falcom to understand that modern localizers are just egotistical bilinguals who couldn’t hack it as a writer, and think they’re better than people who can’t speak two languages.

Have you watched any of Resonant Arc's videos on this topic recently? I think they do a great job talking about the realities of the business while still addressing the concerns that people have.

This is the first video, but they've done two other videos talking to Alexander O. Smith (who has done work both to localize for the west but also to localize western games for the Japanese market):

 

[Strategist]

@Strategist, I truly respect you for engaging with me for this long, because we clearly disagree with one another on a fundamental level, but there's no way this conversation can continue when we're just stating our opposing opinions back and forth at each other. You, and that video you posted, haven't convinced me, because I've seen (and posted!) real-world evidence to the contrary, and I value that most of all. Anything else I could say to you would just be some variation on what I've already said, with the same sources and examples, or the phrase "I disagree" stated in various different ways.

That's fair, I appreciate the effort of engaging. I don't think there's anything wrong for advocating for what you want as a consumer. I also haven't worked professionally as a translator so your experience provides a unique perspective. I can only speak to what I've experienced.

 

[Parasite_Steve]

Oh wow, some heated discussions here. As someone who actually speaks multiple languages, including Japanese, literal translations are absolutely useless in conveying the flavor of the original text. Especially with a language as colorful as Japanese. A very common example being first-person pronouns of which there are several, each conveying different things, bei it social status, gender identity, age, even your hometown (kansaiben ftw) etc. All of them would just translate to "I" basically if you're doing an "accurate" ie literal translation.
Hence AI translations are a handy tool to speed up a professional translator's work at best. Software at this point is barely able to translate a Japanese food menu correctly, let alone prose. It should never be the final product. Furthermore if you believe a pure software translation would be free of political bias or "ideology" (a word that is now hollow beyond imagination) you betray a naive lack of understanding in how these algorithms are fed and by whom.

 

[RageBurner]

I'm not personally against AI translations. Getting more content out there is a net positive, and assuming a human translator gives it a second pass for details while the AI handles the bulk of it? I think we get the best of both worlds, here. That Chocobo GBA board game was translated this way and it was quite playable.

That said, I'm speaking of this merely in a non-professional context; e.g a hacker wants to get a project out there but hasn't managed to drum up enough nterest. Maybe with a working example, translators are more likely to volunteer for a polishing up second pass.

 

[Ikagura]

AI in its current state cannot properly replace humans because we have a better grasp on context than machines could ever do.

But the problem is that we also expect human translator to be extremely fluent in both their native and translation language (almost as if they were born in the culture of that language) while having a certain level of professionalism.

On the other hand when localisers are shoehorning memes (that would become outdated less than a year after the game's release) or add jokes or quips where there weren't in the original text is when there's a problem.

It reminds me of the infamous Fire Emblem translation (in a video titled "Fire Emblem Fates Belka and Saizou C Rank support USA vs JAPAN") about how one has "..." "..." and "..." while the other has a proper dialogue. This is unacceptable honestly and not because it's a Nintendo game (where story is often relegated to the background) but because it clearly shows disrespect towards the original writers and the fans.

I think that localisation as a hobby is a semi closed circle and people are probably getting tired of having unfaithful translations in their games.

I'd even take Ace Attorney's "Japamerica" over what we tend to get nowadays.

 

[Strategist]

AI in its current state cannot properly replace humans because we have a better grasp on context than machines could ever do.

But the problem is that we also expect human translator to be extremely fluent in both their native and translation language (almost as if they were born in the culture of that language) while having a certain level of professionalism.

On the other hand when localisers are shoehorning memes (that would become outdated less than a year after the game's release) or add jokes or quips where there weren't in the original text is when there's a problem.

It reminds me of the infamous Fire Emblem translation (in a video titled "Fire Emblem Fates Belka and Saizou C Rank support USA vs JAPAN") about how one has "..." "..." and "..." while the other has a proper dialogue. This is unacceptable honestly and not because it's a Nintendo game (where story is often relegated to the background) but because it clearly shows disrespect towards the original writers and the fans.

I think that localisation as a hobby is a semi closed circle and people are probably getting tired of having unfaithful translations in their games.

I'd even take Ace Attorney's "Japamerica" over what we tend to get nowadays.

Yeah the Fire Emblem Beruka and Saizou edit in their support is super weird. Normally I would chalk it up to NOA censorship, but then they made Peri super unhinged and sociopathic in the American version so it doesn't make sense from that perspective either.

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the closest to the truth. It may be that some people are just bad at their jobs. Localization is a difficult profession that requires creative writing abilities and mastery of the written and spoken forms of both languages. I'm sure there is spectrum of competence for that type of profession, just like we see in any type of career. Another thing to consider is that humor is subjective and we have a lot of people who aren't particularly good at comedy are trying to rewrite jokes. I suspect that is what leads to a lot of the critiques of "zoomer humor" and the likes.

 

[Gorse]

It may be that some people are just bad at their jobs.

Strategist, I think you and I just found a compromise

 

[Ikagura]

Yeah the Fire Emblem Beruka and Saizou edit in their support is super weird. Normally I would chalk it up to NOA censorship, but then they made Peri super unhinged and sociopathic in the American version so it doesn't make sense from that perspective either.

Sometimes the simplest explanations are the closest to the truth. It may be that some people are just bad at their jobs. Localization is a difficult profession that requires creative writing abilities and mastery of the written and spoken forms of both languages. I'm sure there is spectrum of competence for that type of profession, just like we see in any type of career. Another thing to consider is that humor is subjective and we have a lot of people who aren't particularly good at comedy are trying to rewrite jokes. I suspect that is what leads to a lot of the critiques of "zoomer humor" and the likes.

Bless Ockham and his razor.

Jokes aside if they ended up just being talentless hacks that just happened to have been hired because they were in the right place at the right moment it wouldn't be surprising.

Perfectly bilingual people are really scarce around so I may agree on that but I think that I'd expect some efforts when people buy the product, it should be obvious.

Humour is subjective yes but when the original text is serious the translation should also be. If you have a joke that is hard to translate try making one that fits the mood of the scene instead of going the easy way with doing memes or pop culture reference like it is a 00's DreamWorks movie.

Sometimes I feel that "zoomer humour" is often written by older guy thinking it's what's appealing towards the younger audience while missing the point.

 

[Gorse]

Sometimes I feel that "zoomer humour" is often written by older guy thinking it's what's appealing towards the younger audience while missing the point.

This is such a massive problem with modern-day entertainment writing. Millennials, I really hate to tell you this, but you're not cool (you never were, you were always a generation of annoying irritants), so please – if you're over the age of 20, don't use children's slang in your writing. It's rizzin' cringe, gyatt!

 

[Ikagura]

This is such a massive problem with modern-day entertainment writing. Millennials, I really hate to tell you this, but you're not cool (you never were, you were always a generation of annoying irritants), so please – if you're over the age of 20, don't use children's slang in your writing. It's rizzin' cringe, gyatt!

Forced self-awareness, Marvel-tier dialogues are a blight to any kind of stories.

Sincerity has become scarce and something people appreciate more.

Hell, people even start getting nostalgic for mid-00's edginess because they were taking themselves seriously (although it does not mean they're systematically good).

This is also why people liked some games like KH or Zelda: they didn't try to make 4th wall break or making comments about the unrealistic part of some elements.

Sometimes light hearted dialogues and humour could work, Kid Icarus Uprising and the first two Borderlands worked for what they were but once many franchises did that they stopped feeling unique.

PS: I can also appreciate a meme if it's a really old one so it won't suffer from time deterioration.

 

[kamille]

jokes on both ai and real translators. I'm learning Japanese. no one can stop me from getting the unfiltered experience.

 

[Ikagura]

jokes on both ai and real translators. I'm learning Japanese. no one can stop me from getting the unfiltered experience.

Good idea by itself, it's also the best way to get more into a culture but I'm gonna ask one thing:

When you're not born nor seen the country can you 100% get the cultural intricacies of a dialect?

I know that since I'm not natively an English speaker I lose some meanings or implicit intents in some sentences.

I mean, when we say "to drink a glass of..." we don't mean the glass itself but what's in it. This is semantic but also context sensitive.

 

[kamille]

Good idea by itself, it's also the best way to get more into a culture but I'm gonna ask one thing:

When you're not born nor seen the country can you 100% get the cultural intricacies of a dialect?

I know that since I'm not natively an English speaker I lose some meanings or implicit intents in some sentences.

I mean, when we say "to drink a glass of..." we don't mean the glass itself but what's in it. This is semantic but also context sensitive.

something will always go over your head but luckily you can also learn these intricacies if you just engage with the culture as much as you can.

 

[Strategist]

Good idea by itself, it's also the best way to get more into a culture but I'm gonna ask one thing:

When you're not born nor seen the country can you 100% get the cultural intricacies of a dialect?

I know that since I'm not natively an English speaker I lose some meanings or implicit intents in some sentences.

I mean, when we say "to drink a glass of..." we don't mean the glass itself but what's in it. This is semantic but also context sensitive.

I've heard that it is impossible to fully master a language without doing an immersion experience. Doesn't mean you can't learn a lot on your own, but the final step is to live in Japan for a year and try to communicate with the locals.

 

[Ikagura]

I've heard that it is impossible to fully master a language without doing an immersion experience. Doesn't mean you can't learn a lot on your own, but the final step is to live in Japan for a year and try to communicate with the locals.

So this is why some languages are dead. You can no longer converse with a Roman nowadays.

 

[Strategist]

So this is why some languages are dead. You can no longer converse with a Roman nowadays.

You may learn the words but you'll never understand how a Roman uses them.

 

[Gorse]

When you're not born nor seen the country can you 100% get the cultural intricacies of a dialect?

“World culture” is so globalized these days that, honestly, I can’t imagine this is a problem anymore. This is especially true of Japan, which has gone from “isolated, homogenous Far-Eastern island nation” to “internationally-idolized multicultural expat repository” in the span of about ten years. (Or, at least, that what it looks like on the Internet!!!!)

Everyone in the world watches anime and uses Twitter memes and eats McDonald’s now, right? If you’ll excuse me, I need to go have a cry.

 

[kamille]

“World culture” is so globalized these days that, honestly, I can’t imagine this is a problem anymore. This is especially true of Japan, which has gone from “isolated, homogenous Far-Eastern island nation” to “internationally-idolized multicultural expat repository” in the span of about ten years. (Or, at least, that what it looks like on the Internet!!!!)

Everyone in the world watches anime and uses Twitter memes and eats McDonald’s now, right? If you’ll excuse me, I need to go have a cry.

even then. there are some things one never understands if they are not born in to the culture no matter what they do. this is true considering how many people on twitter freak out over certain things in eastern videogames or anime.

 

[dropsmegamega]

“World culture” is so globalized these days that, honestly, I can’t imagine this is a problem anymore. This is especially true of Japan, which has gone from “isolated, homogenous Far-Eastern island nation” to “internationally-idolized multicultural expat repository” in the span of about ten years. (Or, at least, that what it looks like on the Internet!!!!)

Everyone in the world watches anime and uses Twitter memes and eats McDonald’s now, right? If you’ll excuse me, I need to go have a cry.

tbh the general public of video games nowadays is certainly very globalized, because games are developed and consumed mostly by people living in big cities, naturally cosmopolitan places. Just look at Tokyo. It's uncommon for games to explore a culture too deeply, in big games the countryside only exists in the most stereotypical way: how big city people see the countryside. It's not just lack of interest in culture ofc, its also on purpose to appeal the international market, but on the other side it makes every game look similar and reinforces stereotypes, like the entirety of japan being just tokyo and kyoto.