What are your guy's thoughts on Japanese Game Developers on using AI translations?

[Lee__Kanker]

Lovely Complex had what we would now consider a "trans character" (a boy that dressed up as a girl and considered himself as such) in its main cast. The fact that the character presents as a girl is joked about heavily throughout the series, and is the crucial comedy climax of an early episode. The guy in that screenshot was the English dub's localizer, and rewrote the series' script heavily to alter anything having to do with that character, completely changing the show's dialogue and plot from the original.

When fans rightly complained about it, he threw the shit-fit you see there, was promptly fired and disowned by Discotek Media (who had no idea these changes were being made), and an apology was issued.

Dont forget https://boundingintocomics.com/mang...hanges-feminine-male-into-a-transgender-girl/

 

[Mago]

I don't know if I'm understanding this correctly. They made a transphobic character not transphobic because the localizer morally objected to it?

As far as I know Jello hated the source material and tried to fix it. He literally gloated about it on his patreon. Thats what I remember at least.

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

Yes he changed it because he personally didnt like the content on top of many other changes they bragged about, many such cases

I can send you the list but its many walls of text

Yeah that's wrong and that person should've not accepted that job if he was that morally against it. But rallying against all localizers because of the actions of a few is taking it too far. Perhaps it is a new attitude in younger localizers.

Like imagine a religious person going into anime localization and getting assigned to a ecchi project. That would be equally wrong. This isn't a political issue.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

As far as I know Jello hated the source material and tried to fix it. He literally gloated about it on his patreon. Thats what I remember at least.

They Always gloat about it, what I wonder is what made them so confident to think they can insult the costumer without losing their job
Imagine if I just insulted my students

 

[Mago]

They Always gloat about it, what I wonder is what made them so confident to think they can insult the costumer without losing their job
Imagine if I just insulted my students

Ego. From what i've seen the guy has a massive ego.

Yeah that's wrong and that person should've not accepted that job if he was that morally against it. But rallying against all localizers because of the actions of a few is taking it too far. Perhaps it is a new attitude in younger localizers.

Like imagine a religious person going into anime localization and getting assigned to a ecchi project. That would be equally wrong. This isn't a political issue.

I hate the idea that localization is inherently bad. I can't tell how common an issue this is since I don't really touch a lot of new anime. Shit like Dragon Maid has not interest to me. I do know american politics have been thrown in localized media even back in the 90s but I think that was more to do with us loving our pop culture references and what not.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Yeah that's wrong and that person should've not accepted that job if he was that morally against it. But rallying against all localizers because of the actions of a few is taking it too far. Perhaps it is a new attitude in younger localizers.

Like imagine a religious person going into anime localization and getting assigned to a ecchi project. That would be equally wrong. This isn't a political issue.

I dont think its the action of a few when theres so many cases, I can list em for the next hour, the fact they brag about it in public doesnt help

I also take issue if its just a line bc for example the ita dub of Tokyo Mew Mew censored Mint tellong Zakuro "I really loved you!" and thats just one line
Idc if its because the free market dictates it couldve sold more without a homosexual character, I wanted to watch the cartoon as close it came out in its land thats why I always watched fansubs

Unbenounced to many anglos cartoon network toons STILL gen censored in italy so here ppl watch fansubs of them too

 

[Mago]

I dont think its the action of a few when theres so many cases, I can list em for the next hour, the fact they brag about it in public doesnt help

I also take issue if its just a line bc for example the ita dub of Tokyo Mew Mew censored Mint tellong Zakuro "I really loved you!" and thats just one line
Idc if its because the free market dictates it couldve sold more without a homosexual character, I wanted to watch the cartoon as close it came out in its land thats why I always watched fansubs

Unbenounced to many anglos cartoon network toons STILL gen censored in italy so here ppl watch fansubs of them too

What would Italy censor in a cartoon network cartoon? I thought Italy was a lot more lenient on that stuff than America.

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

I hate the idea that localization is inherently bad. I can't tell how common an issue this is since I don't really touch a lot of new anime. Shit like Dragon Maid has not interest to me. I do know american politics have been thrown in localized media even back in the 90s but I think that was more to do with us loving our pop culture references and what not.

You aren't wrong in feeling that way. Localization will never be as good as understanding the original language. I used to watch the Simpsons Latin America and the English Simpsons and it was sometimes like watching two different shows. Mainly because humor is particularly poorly suited for localization. That's why it makes perfect sense to me that jokes are completely changed between two languages, even if I don't particularly like it.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Btw to any Metal Gear Solid fans, if you ever wondered why snakes stopped with the action movie quips after the first game ("You must be a real threat at the Muktunk eating contest!" ) it's because Jeremy Blaunstein translated it and he wasn't called back for any of the sequels

The retranslation in the twin snakes is more accurate (even if the game and voice acting are inferior) and the same goes for the other games

Post automatically merged: Mar 5, 2025

What would Italy censor in a cartoon network cartoon? I thought Italy was a lot more lenient on that stuff than America.

On videogames yes, basically noting ever got banned except Manhunt 2 for a single year
For cartoons no

For steven universe:
-Any instance of the word "Death" or "Dead"
-The word "God" (even in the dub of dragon ball super they say Deo instead of Dio and EVEN IN THE OFFICIAL SUBS of full metal alchemist brotherhood they say "The founder")
-Violence like Jasper poofing Garnet, garnet punching her and breaking her visor..
-Anything dirty like Ronaldo going "Steven's pregnant?!" or Sadie&Lars sloppily making out
-Shots of frybo forcefeeding ppl
-Shots of past pearl teasing rose as they dance
-More stuff I didnt bother checking

 

[Moth_Lobster]

awful, a good human translator will always be better. However I do believe there should be more communication between the Japanese team and the team of whoever is localizing the product in this instance.
And also, I would like if localizers were allowed to talk about their job. Trying to bring something from one language and culture to another would cause problems no matter how you look at it. If the localizers were allowed to comment on their jobs or provide translators notes and the like, I feel as if public perception would go up.

Back in highschool I read a translation of Dante's Divine Comedy and the author of the english version had notes put throughout the story as well as at the end to explain how he chose to do certain things and why. I know fan translators do this regularly, which is why some people give them a pass for when they are more loose. I think official translations should be willing to explain these things, especially if they change terminology between games or need to make drastic changes. Saying something like "This was a reference to an old Japanese folk-tale and due to the meaning being lost on many westerners we changed the line entirely to reference a western folk-tale with similar meaning", or "The Japanese character spoke extremely arrogantly and had a thick accent, so we made them speak with a Boston accent and swear often to try and get the meaning across" would probably solve like 70% of these issues.

 

[DrunkOcelot]

Better than weirdos putting their personality into the game in place of the original authors intent. I for one embrace our AI friends

 

[Moth_Lobster]

Translation is a work of writing creativity. Because there are no true equivalents everywhere. If you are to convey an equivalent experience to the target audience, then you must bridge a cultural gap and that will take creative work. You must also probably have a good interpretation of the meaning behind the story before you set about translating it, to make more informed choices. In essence, AI translations are going to be slop.
I also think that "woke" localisations are a political pet issue that is vanishingly small, and it probably has little weight on the decision to use AI.

To add to this, I believe that being a good translator means that, to an extent, you should be a good writer yourself. Its never as easy as just "translate it literally" because even if its 100% accurate, it could sound unnatural or could have stuff like slang, social issues and more go unnoticed.
By localizing a work you must be willing to rewrite things to an extent. What happens if its a dub and now you gotta match the lip flaps and timing of spoken dialogue? There's so much here that I think people need to remember its an entire skillset on its own.

 

[DrunkOcelot]

To add to this, I believe that being a good translator means that, to an extent, you should be a good writer yourself. Its never as easy as just "translate it literally" because even if its 100% accurate, it could sound unnatural or could have stuff like slang, social issues and more go unnoticed.
By localizing a work you must be willing to rewrite things to an extent. What happens if its a dub and now you gotta match the lip flaps and timing of spoken dialogue? There's so much here that I think people need to remember its an entire skillset on its own.

But why though? If it's a Japanese made game with Japanese references, why not just leave them in? If I don't get it, I can look it up. If a Japanese player plays Fallout 2 and meets the monty python knights on the random encounter, should we have changed them to samurais?

 

[dropsmegamega]

If a Japanese player plays Fallout 2 and meets the monty python knights on the random encounter, should we have changed them to samurais?

Yes. Change then into a Ran reference. ?

 

[Moth_Lobster]

I’m torn. On one hand, even removing modern leftism from the equation, this is undeniably and objectively better than what passes for modern localization nowadays. You only need to look at something like Dragon Quest, Valkyria Chronicles, Unicorn Overlord, or anything from modern Falcom to understand that modern localizers are just egotistical bilinguals who couldn’t hack it as a writer, and think they’re better than people who can’t speak two languages. You see this all the time with people who speak spanish, and the employers that feed into their delusions.

But on the other, translation is as much an art as it is a science. You want to keep as direct a translation as possible, but it’s possible to translate things too literally and come up with something goofy, nonsensical, or just outright incorrect. So eventually, you’re going to need someone to rewrite the dialogue. This brings us back to the problem of, “How do we keep amateur writers from messing with the source material.”

Yujii Horii, the creator of Dragon Quest, prefers the modern localizations as he believes they match the intent of the original versions moreso than the original localizations or an overly literal one.
The regional accents, puns and name changes are all supposed to help give the English versions the same sense of adventure and comedy that the Japanese language did.

You might not personally like it, but you gotta give them credit where credit is due on that front.

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

But why though? If it's a Japanese made game with Japanese references, why not just leave them in? If I don't get it, I can look it up. If a Japanese player plays Fallout 2 and meets the monty python knights on the random encounter, should we have changed them to samurais?

I don't think that is a consideration because American culture is so ubiquitous. But I can tell you from watching religiously The Simpsons LatAm that many pop culture references to American celebrities (like Luke Perry) were changed to latin American celebrities (I forget who they changed Luke Perry to). Its more common than you think.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

But why though? If it's a Japanese made game with Japanese references, why not just leave them in? If I don't get it, I can look it up. If a Japanese player plays Fallout 2 and meets the monty python knights on the random encounter, should we have changed them to samurais?

Because funi knows better, chud, if people celebrate them losing their job they're just ignorant
Fansubs? Unreadable! Its not like anime culture online exists because of them

 

[Moth_Lobster]

Also just to make something stated after reading the thread, some people here are acting like the overwhelming majority of localizations are bad, if not irredeemable.
But the truth is the overwhelming majority of localizations nowadays are good! Debatably even great! Definitely better than they were 20 years ago! Yes, we have a handful of examples that are debatable, bad or even just completely inexcusable, but think about how many Japanese tv shows, anime, manga, videogames and so on come out in English now. Think of how many anime get subbed on crunchyroll per season. Think of how many videogames, AAA or low budget, get released. Out of those, how many do you think have awful translations? a Handful a year, maybe? Then think about Korean media, now Chinese, now Polish, and keep thinking just how often we get foreign media localized in English these days vs how much of that foreign stuff is localized poorly.
I don't want to defend a bad localization job, but if the majority of localizations are acceptable, we really shouldn't punish localizers as a whole just because some people do an awful job.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Back in highschool I read a translation of Dante's Divine Comedy and the author of the english version had notes put throughout the story as well as at the end to explain how he chose to do certain things and why. I know fan translators do this regularly, which is why some people give them a pass for when they are more loose. I think official translations should be willing to explain these things, especially if they change terminology between games or need to make drastic changes. Saying something like "This was a reference to an old Japanese folk-tale and due to the meaning being lost on many westerners we changed the line entirely to reference a western folk-tale with similar meaning", or "The Japanese character spoke extremely arrogantly and had a thick accent, so we made them speak with a Boston accent and swear often to try and get the meaning across" would probably solve like 70% of these issues.

"But translation notes are criiinge!"

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

"But translation notes are criiinge!"

Its not that translations notes are cringe, its that the vast majority of Americans are anti subtitles. Instead of blaming the localizers, blame the stupidity of the average American consumer.

 

[Moth_Lobster]

"But translation notes are criiinge!"

Its not that translations notes are cringe, its that the vast majority of Americans are anti subtitles. Instead of blaming the localizers, blame the stupidity of the average American consumer.

as an American I can actually specify its not subtitles, the average American just can't read in general.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

as an American I can actually specify its not subtitles, the average American just can't read in general.

I was being sarcastic thats why it was in quotes :P

Oh normie italians are lazy bums too! Vs the asians and east euros that read subs since they were kids without bitching

Translating The Critic into italian was challenging especially cause its Soo specific to mod 1990s nyc I had to put in so many notes


I also forgot to mention another thing I cant wait to go extinct is dub-titles

Nier Automata is for the most part faithful, but the way some of 2B's lines are translated and delivered make it sound much more sarcastic when she's supposed to be Cold and Collected
And even if you put on the og dub+subs you just get a transcript of the dub

"But Lee! What about ita translations of jap games?"
Im glad I imagined you asking! They just translate the english script cause its cheaper so Fire Emblem awakening and fates is ruined for everyone baby!

With comic books they dont always do that at least