What are your guy's thoughts on Japanese Game Developers on using AI translations?

[Strategist]

Because for companies bad press and public pressure equals to less profit? It's literally what my post was saying. I can't speak for Dupont because this is the first time I ever heard about it (I am not from the US), but companies like Shell love to finance cultural events and other stuff, is that from the goodness of their hearts? Of course not, it's about improving their image. Now imagine a company like Disney, that lives and dies on public animosity. Right now a lot of these are putting a progressive facade, but depending on how these things go in the next few years they may do a 180- this is why I said its hard to separate then from the public, because their decisions are heavily influenced by their public.

I don't believe any of these companies are progressive in the true sense of the word. Particularly Disney. They may put on a façade but from first hand accounts of people who have worked for the company, they aren't exactly against exploiting their workers. Anyone who has worked at the parks can attest to the hellhole that Disney corp. is.

 

[dropsmegamega]

I don't believe any of these companies are progressive in the true sense of the word. They may put on a façade but from first hand accounts of people who have worked for the company, they aren't exactly against exploiting their workers.

Yes, I agree, it's all about maintaining their good image to the general public while exploiting their workers. And it's sad because sometimes supposedly progressive artists will defend then solely because their are being financed by then. But I've went for too long in this political stuff. Let's get back on topic.

 

[ATenderLad]

The "imperialist military American FPS shooter" genre died off in the mid-2010s (Spec Ops: The Line was 2011)

Let's start here, I'm amazed you referenced me and built a strawman out of opinions I don't have, but also didn't read any of my posts apparently? I literally brought up a recent game in the genre, and The Division 2 and Rainbow Six are still going strong. If you don't know something, why say it so confidently?

You all don't like it when privileged white people impose their western values on impressionable foreigners, right...?

I'm looking through my posts, when have we ever talked about this? My only guess I insulted that Nazi a few weeks back, I guess you've been keeping score on who's left/right like an obsessed culture warrior.

That's why I'm such a pedantic irritant about all this, because I actually liked what it had been before – even if it wasn't inclusive. Whoops! If you think I'm being overly dramatic, by all means, do laugh about it – I've got the champagne bottles ready for when AI eats you alive.

I'm glad you have your internet working again, but maybe you *should* be going outside more.

 

[Strategist]

I'm looking through my posts, when have we ever talked about this? My only guess I insulted that Nazi a few weeks back, I guess you've been keeping score on who's left/right like an obsessed culture warrior.

He's referring to the idea that American/English speaking localizers are imposing their cultural norms on the Japanese and making an equivalent to cultural colonization (something that liberals would typically oppose). And I do think there's some validity to that idea but I don't think it is as pervasive as the online discourse makes it seem.

 

[Gorse]

I'm amazed you referenced me and built a strawman out of opinions I don't have, but also didn't read any of my posts apparently?

WoahwoahwoahWOAH there buddy, I wasn’t referring to you specifically at all! Throughout my posts, I’m referring to the general left-wing boogeyman who’s an amalgamation of all the things I’ve been arguing against during this thread. You’ll note that I also mentioned Strategist, who has repeatedly stated that he isn’t left or right wing (and, for the record, I don’t think he is ideologically-driven at all), in the same breath — because I was making a cheeky aside about how you both probably disagree with the opinions I’ve stated here in a very general, loosey-goosey sense. (You and I haven’t even replied to each other’s posts in this thread, yet!)

To be 100% honest, I haven’t even read your and Clippy’s posts in this thread and don’t plan on it, because it’s an entirely different discussion I wasn’t a part of and I don’t give a hoot about the subject. Neither you, Strategist, or anyone else in this thread is who I’m talking about, because you aren’t the ones translating these video games.

I guess you've been keeping score on who's left/right like an obsessed culture warrior.

I'm glad you have your internet working again, but maybe you *should* be going outside more.

 

[ATenderLad]

He's referring to the idea that American/English speaking localizers are imposing their cultural norms on the Japanese and making an equivalent to cultural colonization (something that liberals would typically oppose). And I do think there's some validity to that idea but I don't think it is as pervasive as the online discourse makes it seem.

I appreciate you clarifying, I knew that though. I was confused how it related to *me*, was all.

On that topic, all I would say is America being overwhelmingly the largest commercial market for games is going to influence the Japanese game industry more than any online censorship discussion or the work of individual localizers with a "terrifying agenda" ever could.

 

[Strategist]

I appreciate you clarifying, I knew that though. I was confused how it related to *me*, was all.

On that topic, all I would say is America being overwhelmingly the largest commercial market for games is going to influence the Japanese game industry more than any online censorship discussion or the work of individual localizers with a "terrifying agenda" ever could.

That's my take too, although I am sympathetic to the creators. I blame the Japanese suits for that issue more than any American though. At the end of the day, the American market has certain restrictions for what belongs in certain game ratings. The Japanese businessmen can choose to release their games in North America at a higher age rating, profits be damned, but they choose to be cowardly and censor their games.

For example the DQ3 remake controversy that was discussed a couple of months ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JRPG/comments/1fsvzno/creator_y%C5%ABjidono_and_db_editor_kazuhikodono/

Quoted from the link above:

Naz Chris (Host): "The costume design has become a huge topic of discussion."

Yuji Horii: "Well, there are various regulations, you know. We can't have too much exposure."

Naz Chris: "But that's fine. Even though it's fiction, you, the protagonist, are going on an adventure within it, so I think that's okay. Isn't it?"

Yuji Horii: "I don't really know. I'm not sure about that."

Naz Chris: "It's a game. It's a non-fiction virtual experience within fiction, so I think it should be fun."

Yuji Horii: "If there's too much exposure, the target age rating goes up. It could no longer be suitable for all ages."

Naz Chris: "I didn't think about that back then."

Kazuhiko Torishima: "There's this absolute god called 'compliance.' It’s like evil disguised as good. Not everyone can feel comfortable with everything. After all, concepts of beauty and ugliness, good and evil vary from person to person. At the root of things, there are definitely some things you should never do, and as long as you avoid those, everything else should be fine. But that’s not the case. The concept of sex education that comes from religious ideas in the West is prevalent in America. Their view on compliance is really narrow. When they publish comics over there, they have to categorize them by age. If it's a Weekly Shōnen Jump manga, it can't be published for anyone under 13 years old. Everything has to go through reworkings. You have to get insurance in case of lawsuits. It's really troublesome. Japan has also been negatively influenced by this."

Yuji Horii: "You can choose the protagonist's gender, but you can't say 'choose male or female.' It's type 1 and type 2. I wonder who would complain if we just said male and female? I don't understand."

This interview suggests what common sense would indicate: The censorship is dictated by the corporate guidelines that are trying to meet the restrictions of American books for teens and young kids. So it is a sort of cultural colonization, but the culture that's colonizing isn't the American. It is the effects of the free market. If the Japanese valued artistry over profits, it would be a non-issue.

 

[Clippy]

To think the last 3 pages could've been avoided if only we used a simple guide to modern Internet discourse.

But noooooooo, we had to take the high road and be adults about it. I'm actually kinda proud of us.

 

[dropsmegamega]

This interview suggests what common sense would indicate: The censorship is dictated by the corporate guidelines that are trying to meet the restrictions of American books for teens and young kids. So it is a sort of cultural colonization, but the culture that's colonizing isn't the American. It is the effects of the free market. If the Japanese valued artistry over profits, it would be a non-issue.

How is the culture colonizing not the American? The market imposes profit and to make profit you need to meet the American cultural restrictions, at the end of the day its the same because without profit (most) things cannot get made.

 

[Strategist]

How is the culture colonizing not the American? The market imposes profit and to make profit you need to meet the American cultural restrictions, at the end of the day its the same because without profit (most) things cannot get made.

A company can take a principled stand and choose to value their customers over absolute profits. Taking every cost cutting measure in the interest of maximizing profits is not always in the best interest of a company. They could release their books with a teen rating and accept the lesser profits. No American is forcing them to release them a certain way. At the end of the day, they are choosing money over art.

 

[dropsmegamega]

A company can take a principled stand and choose to value their customers over absolute profits. Taking every cost cutting measure in the interest of maximizing profits is not always in the best interest of a company. They could release their books with a teen rating and accept the lesser profits. No American is forcing them to release them a certain way. At the end of the day, they are choosing money over art.

In most cases this is a very idealist take. But it doesn't matter how you put it, it doesn't take away the fact these cultural restrictions exist in the first place and are used to impose values, even if they technically aren't absolute they still constitute a form of censorship and shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[starseeker300]

This sums up my thoughts on ai pretty well

 

[spectresfrommercury]

indifferent

 

[Pockets]

I've used AI to translate some Japanese only manga that never got fully translated and I used the AI real-time translation mod to play Dragon Quest X in English but that's for stuff that isn't officially available in English.

I think if you're paying for anything it should not be made with AI.

 

[BROTHERJGRJI]

I guess they probably shouldn't use AI to translate games.

I played AI-translated Love Plus on DS and it looked like a genuine localization. Otherwise we'd never receive a translation even though it's a big company. But they have to have a supervisor as others pointed out. If it'll mean we will get a localized game then I'm all for this