DOOM THREAD

[Deleted member 132407]

I'll leave this here

GitHub - Owlet7/wadfusion: WadFusion — simple IWAD merge utility

WadFusion — simple IWAD merge utility. Contribute to Owlet7/wadfusion development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

Kind of "old" (a couple of week iirc) but there is a new version of Zandronum, the successor of Skulltag the multiplayer source port of DooM. Definitely the most popular of the bunch, you can always find a server with people:

Zandronum - Multiplayer ZDoom

It is a good way to discover some cool mods too btw.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

As having been playing the game, this is really false on many accounts. I'm not the biggest fan of ray tracing, especially mandatory ray tracing, but I have a 4070 Ti Super, and I've been playing at 1080p at around 150 FPS the entire time.

You didn't understand my post obviously or it's just sunk cost fallacy speaking.

I dont even need to play that slop to critic it technically. Framegen and upscaling renders your "150 fps" claim *meaningless*. You dont play a fluid 150fps shooter, you play a parody of fps hallucinated by an AI with such a massive input lag they had to put QTE and synckills on every action in the game.

Your fast response 150 fps screen is basicaly wasted on AI frames with ghosting 75% of the time, you may be back to a cheap 30$ IPS that it wouldnt make a dent of a difference. All that with a Denuvo cancer on your Windows install.

Compare that to HellSinger VR. A game superior to that Bethesda slop in every possible way. In real 90fps, real UHD, even 8K, with real music and a tight gameplay requiring low latency. And the soundtrack is killer.

Bonus point for the indie studio to *PAY* the artists in due time, contrarily to those POS at Zenimax who will go out of their ways to backstab their staff. I wouldn't spend one cent on a Bethesda game nowadays, that would just make me a part of the problem. Their games are not meant to be bought, they end up as free to play slop for the gamepass or bundled with Nvidia scams anyway.

 

[Nidstang]

You didn't understand my post obviously or it's just sunk cost fallacy speaking.

I dont even need to play that slop to critic it technically. Framegen and upscaling renders your "150 fps" claim *meaningless*. You dont play a fluid 150fps shooter, you play a parody of fps hallucinated by an AI with such a massive input lag they had to put QTE and synckills on every action in the game.

Your fast response 150 fps screen is basicaly wasted on AI frames with ghosting 75% of the time, you may be back to a cheap 30$ IPS that it wouldnt make a dent of a difference. All that with a Denuvo cancer on your Windows install.

Compare that to HellSinger VR. A game superior to that Bethesda slop in every possible way. In real 90fps, real UHD, even 8K, with real music and a tight gameplay requiring low latency. And the soundtrack is killer.

Bonus point for the indie studio to *PAY* the artists in due time, contrarily to those POS at Zenimax who will go out of their ways to backstab their staff. I wouldn't spend one cent on a Bethesda game nowadays, that would just make me a part of the problem. Their games are not meant to be bought, they end up as free to play slop for the gamepass or bundled with Nvidia scams anyway.

I'm not playing with framegen though. I have DLSS off, I'm rendering with TAA. Its 100% real frames, no AI.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

I'm not playing with framegen though. I have DLSS off, I'm rendering with TAA. Its 100% real frames, no AI.

The whole point of the RTX requirement is to use the cuda cores of the cards. At least that's what the scammers from Nvidia and Bethesda are pushing for narrative. So yes. AI. AI all the way.

You are confusing fast twitch reflexes FPS like the Quakes of old that would make sense to run at 150 fps with the new Doom parody which is a QTE fest tailored for the long input lag of modern day's AAA slop. Meaningless FPS numbers are meaningless.

 

[Nidstang]

The whole point of the RTX requirement is to use the cuda cores of the cards. At least that's what the scammers from Nvidia and Bethesda are pushing for narrative. So yes. AI. AI all the way.

You are confusing fast twitch reflexes FPS like the Quakes of old that would make sense to run at 150 fps with the new Doom parody which is a QTE fest tailored for the long input lag of modern day's AAA slop. Meaningless FPS numbers are meaningless.

I dont know what else to say. I'm having a great time with it, without using AI rendering/DLSS, no input lag, and genuinely good performance at 1080p, max settings. And there's no QTEs. It's pure Doom as its always been.

If you dont want to play it, dont, I dont care, but at least understand what you're arguing against first.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

I dont know what else to say. I'm having a great time with it, without using AI rendering/DLSS, no input lag, and genuinely good performance at 1080p, max settings. And there's no QTEs. It's pure Doom as its always been.

If you dont want to play it, dont, I dont care, but at least understand what you're arguing against first.

I'm not arguing. Everything I said here is verifiable.

But yet here you are claiming it's false, with a 150 displayed on your screen I should believe, and yet I just need to open Youtube and see the gameplay footage from the thousand of influencers that got paid for advertising it. The usual guys that couldn't pass Quake's first episode, having "a great time" with their QTEs in a parody of "pure Doom".

In three month when the hype comes down and with the slop on gamepass for free, all the cut content they kept from release will be bundled in another 60$ DLC. Maybe some pve mode with paid skins to further get the whales money rolling. And people will keep feeding the scams because they'll never learn.

I invite you to re-read the article I posted earlier about Carmack (the creator of Doom), he talks about enshitification and the state of the industry. And maybe also play Quake before comparing modern gamepass slop to it.

 

[Nidstang]

I'm not arguing. Everything I said here is verifiable.

But yet here you are claiming it's false, with a 150 displayed on your screen I should believe, and yet I just need to open Youtube and see the gameplay footage from the thousand of influencers that got paid for advertising it. The usual guys that couldn't pass Quake's first episode, having "a great time" with their QTEs in a parody of "pure Doom".

In three month when the hype comes down and with the slop on gamepass for free, all the cut content they kept from release will be bundled in another 60$ DLC. Maybe some pve mode with paid skins to further get the whales money rolling. And people will keep feeding the scams because they'll never learn.

I invite you to re-read the article I posted earlier about Carmack (the creator of Doom), he talks about enshitification and the state of the industry. And maybe also play Quake before comparing modern gamepass slop to it.

I've played Quake plenty of times. And classic Doom and Wolfenstein. And Blood, Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Dusk, Amid Evil, Ion Fury, ect ect.

Have you played Doom 2016 or Eternal? TDA is the same as them. There are no QTEs in these games.

I also paid money for these games. I dont have Gamepass. I was extremely skeptical before TDA came out, but its actually very good, and Im glad I was wrong about it. Maybe try it before basing your opinion off a few "influencers" on Youtube. The DNA of classic Doom and Quake is alive and present in modern Doom.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

I've played Quake plenty of times. And classic Doom and Wolfenstein. And Blood, Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Dark Forces, Dusk, Amid Evil, Ion Fury, ect ect.

Have you played Doom 2016 or Eternal? TDA is the same as them. There are no QTEs in these games.

I also paid money for these games. I dont have Gamepass. I was extremely skeptical before TDA came out, but its actually very good, and Im glad I was wrong about it. Maybe try it before basing your opinion off a few "influencers" on Youtube. The DNA of classic Doom and Quake is alive and present in modern Doom.

The DNA of Quake and Doom has long gone from Id, worked a bit on Meta VR and is now busy with AI. Carmack showed work ethics and has already stated many times that he was not happy with the AAA gaming industry and the dogshit optimization they always get away with. Meanwhile the fans try to justify again another few thousand dollars going down the drain to make their gamepass slop barely run.

And who should be surprised by that... They treat their artists like shit, they treat their customers like shit and they treat their products like shit. That parody of Doom is free slop for the gamepass and the Nvidia scams.

I've played and finished Doom 2016, on Steam, and I've played and finished all the other games you cite, some of them decades ago. In 2016 it was a well optimized release and pushed Vulkan renderer. Synckills were fun, but call them how you want, they're QTE. The music was great. It ran at full 60fps 4K on a GTX970 I bought for 150 bucks and which is still running fine in my wife's PC desktop.

Post COVID 9 years after that fans with Stockholm syndrome are ready to pay 80 bucks for a slower clone of that game otherwise now distributed for free with Gamepass and Nvidia cards, and their brand new 1k$ cards couldn't even run that shit with good framerates in native resolution while the thing is 90°C burning and wasting 1kW.

Here's what true Doom's DNA daddy Carmack would say about all this : "Seeing something that is grossly inefficient hurts your soul."

John Carmack ‘Wearied Of The Fight’ As He Exits Meta

John Carmack left his role as “executive consultant” for virtual reality at Meta. Carmack occupied key roles over the last decade in pushing forward VR’s path toward consumer adoption, from exchanging hardware with Rift creator Palmer Luckey to becoming CTO at Oculus and continuing to work at...

www.uploadvr.com

I don't expect you to understand that, but if I'm getting my opinion from any influencer, like you say, as if it would prove me wrong and make that parody of gamepass slop that you call Doom a good game... So if there's one influencer behind what I'm saying, then it's Carmack himself.

 

[eroguro]

Doom was the reason when I was a kid, learned to love FPS and still loving today, many years later.

Btw, I bought the Doom I & II and Doom 64 for PS4 and man, I'm bringed back to my childhood days, playing for hours!

 

[Varyag]

Alright sharing what I've been playing these past few days, I've updated a few mods, but right now having an absolute blast going through Maps of Chaos again, Hardcore version for extra monsters, with the latest Project Brutality update. I think it's a great pack and alternative to Brutal Doom lately, it basically brings in all the addons you were probably going to add, with a nice set of custom monsters with many badass variants for you to RIP AND TEAR.

Also, really looking forward to trying out Diamond Dragon, the latest Cyberpunk inspired mod that looks really damn cool, and will work great for my umpteenth playthrough of Auger;Zenith

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I forgot to tell this thread that I've done Doom 2016 on the Switch and Doom Eternal on PC (yeah I'm late).

The Dark Ages is still expensive to me and I haven't played The Ancient God Part 1&2 yet so I don't see myself doing the "prequel" (more like an interquel) beforehand.

Also I've yet to do Legacy of Rust and Doom 64 Lost Level as official wads.

 

[Varyag]

okay after running "rigorous" testing (playing a few maps with each) I can say, out of the main Br00tal Doom mods, the one I'm enjoying the most right now is Project Brutality
between the latest PB, Brutal Doom v22 and Brutal Pack v10, that's what I pick

Brutal Doom is the OG, the vanilla of the mods. No fuss, no bloat all killer. Just powerful guns and gorey animations
Project Brutality is the endpoint of what most people ended up modding their GZDoom with: it comes in with a ton of addons to create it's own experience already seasoned to taste. Good solid fundamentals, cool good guns and extra functions like grenades, quick melee, Glory Kills, weapon upgrades and higher tier monsters that you see the longer a mapset goes on.
Brutal Pack is somewhere in the middle with the guns and monsters, but what it does focus on is, bringing the Doom Eternal mechanics into play. So Glory Kills are way more focused on, you have dashes, the flame belch, chainsaw on cooldown, grenade all that stuff. If that's what you want, great I think it's the best implementation of those mechanics towards classic Doom (that isn't just straight up being GZDoom Eternal) but that's not what I want. The other two have some of these in, but they feel more optional, unlike Eternal and Brutal Pack.

I played Brutal Doom v21 so much that at one point it felt like vanilla Doom to me on GZDoom. Feels nice to finally have something else cohesive for that kind of gameplay. Project Brutality spent too long with a bunch of addons and optional files that ended up all integrated into the latest version, properly now.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I should try playing Brutal Doom again but I kinda prefer the V17 - V18 builds before it became... cluttered.

I've also done Doom 1 in PB but to be honest it adds even more stuff to the point I'm saturating.

I think there are BD-like mods meant for Dehacked and are more vanilla friendly.

 

[Varyag]

Yes there are, actually! I've found a few Dehacked/MBF21 Brutal style mods.

And well, I have an old brutal doom v20 build that I really like too, and from what I can tell, that's the direction v22 is going back to, less clutter.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Yes there are, actually! I've found a few Dehacked/MBF21 Brutal style mods.

Pardon me but I'm still confused about the whole "limit removing", "boom-compatible" and "MBF" mods.

All I remember is that GZDoom had DECORATE and Zscript to allow more advanced stuff but at that point should it still be considered to be the original Doom game and not a remake of the game under a new engine like KEX?

 

[Varyag]

Pardon me but I'm still confused about the whole "limit removing", "boom-compatible" and "MBF" mods.

All I remember is that GZDoom had DECORATE and Zscript to allow more advanced stuff but at that point should it still be considered to be the original Doom game and not a remake of the game under a new engine like KEX?

you are somewhat on the money with that. Yes, GZDoom is pretty much a completely new game engine that was built using Doom as base. It can do way more than the original game, at the cost that it doesn't even *try* to play like the original game (unless you go out of your way to set strict compatibility options and control remapping) And that's why the mods can do so much. And why it annoys me so that uninformed people keep crying they can't Brutal Doom in the new Doom+DoomII release.

"limit removing", Boom, MBF are sourceport capability standards, used to codify what a custom mod can and can't do, depending on which sourceport it was made for. These are way less radical than DECORATE and Zscript and mostly stick to classic vanilla Doom rules, just extended. Most modern sourceports (GZDoom and the rerelease included) support running all of these. Basically, it means the map was made with a specific set of features in mind (and might break if played in another set)
When in doubt, the Doom wiki always has the answers! https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Compatibility

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

you are somewhat on the money with that. Yes, GZDoom is pretty much a completely new game engine that was built using Doom as base. It can do way more than the original game, at the cost that it doesn't even *try* to play like the original game (unless you go out of your way to set strict compatibility options and control remapping) And that's why the mods can do so much.

This is why I encourage people to have both GZDoom for the mods while having a Boom fork source port like PrBoom+ (now DSDA that basically replaces it) or even Chocolate/Crispy Doom for an even more purist approach since GZDoom even in strict vanilla cannot 100% replicate every intricacies of the original engine. 60 FPS, higher res and widescreen are the only modern luxuries I prefer with Doom but other than that I'd keep the gameplay as close as possible with no vertical camera and no jumping/crouching.

I'm also not fan of GZDoom in the last years regarding the dynamic resolution and how the menus are so cluttered you get a search bar (at least) and even worse: the textures and sprites are blurry by default and I find it to be an aberration for that kind of game (like xRBZ on emulators).

And why it annoys me so that uninformed people keep crying they can't Brutal Doom in the new Doom+Doom II release.

Either that, wanting 360° camera movements or even jumping/crouching when the originals maps aren't made with them in mind. It also mildly annoys me when there's someone telling why a gameplay mod isn't compatible with BD or that a map is getting too hard with BD when it's not made with it in mind.

Sure, the 2019 Unity and 2024 Kex ports aren't perfect and honestly I'd rather stick to the sourceports yet I still think they're doing a good job at what they're doing on consoles.

"limit removing", Boom, MBF are sourceport capability standards, used to codify what a custom mod can and can't do, depending on which sourceport it was made for. These are way less radical than DECORATE and Zscript and mostly stick to classic vanilla Doom rules, just extended. Most modern sourceports (GZDoom and the rerelease included) support running all of these. Basically, it means the map was made with a specific set of features in mind (and might break if played in another set)
When in doubt, the Doom wiki always has the answers! https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Compatibility

Decino being great at explaining complex thing while being clear. Easily one of the top tier "Doomtubers".

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Doom 1-3 + EX are awesome . With mods : godlike !

Doom 2016 was cool .

Doom Eternal was .... a bit too much chaotic for my taste while it comes to me as repetitive overall .

Doom : Dark Ages is alright .... nothing particular impressive but surely not bad . Its .... alright.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Doom 1-3 + EX are awesome . With mods : godlike !

Doom 2016 was cool .

Doom Eternal was .... a bit too much chaotic for my taste while it comes to me as repetitive overall .

Doom : Dark Ages is alright .... nothing particular impressive but surely not bad . Its .... alright.

What's Doom EX? And Doom 3 has mods? I remember modding the og Doom 3 to give the shotgun and pistol their beta sounds.

I agree about Eternal being sometimes a bit too chaotic (even Ultrakill was less despite being more unhinged). And repetitive I agree, especially when it's slightly longer than 2016 and how you have to constantly use the flamethrower, grenades and the chainsaw once you're out of ammo (because of the small pool you had)...

I always felt like they wanted to make it 10x more "arcade-like" than the previous game with the floating elements and colourful HUD.

 

[Varyag]

Yeah that's my opinion with Eternal too. It has harder combat overall and better encounters than 2016, but it's a "spinning too many plates" simulator for me and I get overwhelmed. There's too many goddamn buttons to be constantly pressing, watching for their cooldowns in the middle of combat. It gets tiring. I finished the game twice, looked at the DLCs, then uninstalled it.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

What's Doom EX? And Doom 3 has mods? I remember modding the og Doom 3 to give the shotgun and pistol their beta sounds.

I agree about Eternal being sometimes a bit too chaotic (even Ultrakill was less despite being more unhinged). And repetitive I agree, especially when it's slightly longer than 2016 and how you have to constantly use the flamethrower, grenades and the chainsaw once you're out of ammo (because of the small pool you had)...

I always felt like they wanted to make it 10x more "arcade-like" than the previous game with the floating elements and colourful HUD.

Doom Ex is reffered to Doom 64 which was its own game entirely .

Doom 3 had mods too and some really cool ones to find . One mod was a project to make an own Hexen game which sadly was cancled . But dont know how it looks now about the doom 3 modding scene.

 

[Deleted member 612095]

The last Doom that came out really disappointed me. Apart from great graphics, this part didn't have much to offer.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Doom Ex is reffered to Doom 64 which was its own game entirely .

Doom 3 had mods too and some really cool ones to find . One mod was a project to make an own Hexen game which sadly was cancled . But dont know how it looks now about the doom 3 modding scene.

Oh right. I would've said Doom 64.

On the other hand Doom 3 is the black sheep of the franchise (even if Resurrection of Evil was nice and fixed issues from the original).

Shame about Hexen though.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Oh right. I would've said Doom 64.

On the other hand Doom 3 is the black sheep of the franchise (even if Resurrection of Evil was nice and fixed issues from the original).

Shame about Hexen though.

Yeah .... the hexen games were great but were forgotten very fast while never got any sequels to evolve that formula more as an fast-paced action RPG .