Metroid Megathread

[Ikagura]

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This is a far cry but I almost wish Super got a Wonder Boy The Dragon Trap style remake (which respects the overall game while giving some minor tweaks).

And maybe tweaking the wall jumping, this is the only thing that still gets me troubles to this day.

 

[Guinea]

Is Zero Mission on the GBA good? I really enjoyed Fusion, but I haven't played this one.

Edit- I'm also thinking about playing that Fusion romhack 'Samus Goes To The Fridge To Get A Glass Of Milk' because this pic made me laugh:

 

[Ikagura]

Is Zero Mission on the GBA good? I really enjoyed Fusion, but I haven't played this one.

Yes.

The only thing is that it's quite linear in the first 10 minutes of the game then let you more liberties and while it's a remake of the first game it also took elements from Super as a nod.

 

[DragonMals]

sign me in. I'd love to talk about anything Metroid related.

 

[Judier]

Boy let me answer all of your metroid related questions now and ASAP!

 

[fake-chan]

I beat Super Metroid yesterday. It turns out that the game everybody calls one of the best of all time is, in fact, very good.

Shocking, I know.

 

[Ikagura]

I beat Super Metroid yesterday. It turns out that the game everybody calls one of the best of all time is, in fact, very good.

Shocking, I know.

Congrats but I don't get why a game praised to be the best by many wouldn't be one.

Super Metroid puts many modern metroidvanias to shame as well.

 

[Graw]

And maybe tweaking the wall jumping, this is the only thing that still gets me troubles to this day.

The controls don't need tweaking. Wall jumping is fine, it just has a very precise timing window. Believe it or not I actually find wall jumping easiest with a keyboard instead of a controller. I always struggled with it when I played through it on the snes the first time. The second time I played it on zsnes with a keyboard because I didn't have any kind of PC controller and I found wall jumping to be super easy by comparison. I remember even hooking the snes up to my computer's tv tuner card thing I had and playing Super Metroid again that way and struggling with wall jumping with the snes controller again.

I've played through the game a ton of times by this point though and I'm fairly decent at wall jumping now to the point where I can do it consistently like 95% of the time with a controller. It just took a lot of practice. I still can't do that speed runner shit though where they basically fly around the game with wall jumps.

I found the best way to learn was to skip the grapple beam. That forces you to use wall jumps to get through pretty much all of Maridia and anywhere else you need the grapple beam before you get the space jump. By the time you've done that a few times you should be pretty good at wall jumping.

 

[Ikagura]

The controls don't need tweaking. Wall jumping is fine, it just has a very precise timing window. Believe it or not I actually find wall jumping easiest with a keyboard instead of a controller.

That's the issue, I'm not asking the game to become dumbed down to make it easier like many remasters and remakes are doing (although Zero Mission is easier than NES Metroid thanks to the ability to shoot down, diagonally and while crouching but that's mostly because NES Metroid had an inherently clunky gameplay that was fixed with Metroid II and Super).

The game was made with a controller in mind, the keyboard may make it easier but wasn't the original intent (like when playing a console FPS with keyboard + mouse, it's easier because they didn't expect the player to have sharper aiming tools).

I've played through the game a ton of times by this point though and I'm fairly decent at wall jumping now to the point where I can do it consistently like 95% of the time with a controller. It just took a lot of practice. I still can't do that speed runner shit though where they basically fly around the game with wall jumps.

I found the best way to learn was to skip the grapple beam. That forces you to use wall jumps to get through pretty much all of Maridia and anywhere else you need the grapple beam before you get the space jump. By the time you've done that a few times you should be pretty good at wall jumping.

I think it's mostly like how Mario 64 DS had an easier time for wall jumping compared to its N64 counterpart.

I'd also like to see the other gamepad buttons to be used as shortcuts like Zelda Link's Awakening Switch allowing for two item buttons on top of the dedicated sword one and the shield on the R shoulder button which makes it less clunky and doesn't require to go to the menus too often just to swap the tool.

 

[Graw]

That's the issue, I'm not asking the game to become dumbed down to make it easier like many remasters and remakes are doing (although Zero Mission is easier than NES Metroid thanks to the ability to shoot down, diagonally and while crouching but that's mostly because NES Metroid had an inherently clunky gameplay that was fixed with Metroid II and Super).

I disagree with Super Metroid though because the controls were very intentionally designed by the developers to be the way they are. If you look at top level players of the game the skill ceiling is so much higher than a lot of other games because of the way the controls work. Even just seeing the improvements in the way players play the game now compared to how they played it back when I first ever saw a speed run of the game, back when the record was like 55 minutes or something is pretty wild.

I'd prefer some awkwardness knowing with enough mastery, you could play the game like that over something that feels better or easier.

My biggest issue with Zero Mission was the weightiness of it. In Fusion it made sense because it was an artificial environment in a space station but Zebes already had two games establishing gravity was lighter there and things were floatier so it always bothered me it was like that in Zero Mission. I agree though, Metroid's controls were never great and Zero Mission itself is so different from the original anyway the improved controls aren't really even the biggest reason why it's easier. It's more the lack of janky nes bullshit.

Metroid 2's controls really weren't that awful for a gameboy game and honestly improved the nes ones a lot. The biggest problem with Metroid 2's controls was the spider ball. I remember it being annoying as hell to control.

The game was made with a controller in mind, the keyboard may make it easier but wasn't the original intent (like when playing a console FPS with keyboard + mouse, it's easier because they didn't expect the player to have sharper aiming tools).

Well yeah I can do it with a controller now it was just one of the few things that I actually found easier trying to use a keyboard to play snes games. Most of the time it was harder.

I'd also like to see the other gamepad buttons to be used as shortcuts like Zelda Link's Awakening Switch allowing for two item buttons on top of the dedicated sword one and the shield on the R shoulder button which makes it less clunky and doesn't require to go to the menus too often just to swap the tool.

I could definitely get behind improved Item switching though. Cycling through items in super Metroid does kind of suck. Though, I usually only get the first three anyway but some dedicated buttons for them would be nice.

 

[Ikagura]

I disagree with Super Metroid though because the controls were very intentionally designed by the developers to be the way they are. If you look at top level players of the game the skill ceiling is so much higher than a lot of other games because of the way the controls work. Even just seeing the improvements in the way players play the game now compared to how they played it back when I first ever saw a speed run of the game, back when the record was like 55 minutes or something is pretty wild.

I'd prefer some awkwardness knowing with enough mastery, you could play the game like that over something that feels better or easier.

My biggest issue with Zero Mission was the weightiness of it. In Fusion it made sense because it was an artificial environment in a space station but Zebes already had two games establishing gravity was lighter there and things were floatier so it always bothered me it was like that in Zero Mission. I agree though, Metroid's controls were never great and Zero Mission itself is so different from the original anyway the improved controls aren't really even the biggest reason why it's easier. It's more the lack of janky nes bullshit.

Metroid 2's controls really weren't that awful for a gameboy game and honestly improved the nes ones a lot. The biggest problem with Metroid 2's controls was the spider ball. I remember it being annoying as hell to control.

I don't see the issue about lowering the skill floor if the ceiling is still kept intact.

It's strange to prefer awkwardness over something that is easy to engage while still having some challenge.

Zero Mission's weight was actually what I preferred because Samus is in a big, bulky space armour and I want to feel that bulkiness (that's why there's an impact upon landing in Metroid Prime), being too floaty also means being slower when jumping which can get jarring when you want to get on a platform up there.

I could definitely get behind improved Item switching though. Cycling through items in super Metroid does kind of suck. Though, I usually only get the first three anyway but some dedicated buttons for them would be nice.

I think the way they handled the missiles/super missiles, the super bomb and diagonal aiming in Fusion/Zero Mission to be perfect thanks to the more intuitive control (at the cost of no X nor Y buttons).

I'm wondering if there's an actual practical reason not to run in Super.

 

[Graw]

I'm wondering if there's an actual practical reason not to run in Super.

Removing the run button would remove a few speed running tricks that rely on the fact that pressing the run button during a certain frame of animation results in a slightly shorter acceleration time to max speed and shinespark charging time.

You can see it for yourself. Stand in one place, hold the run button down then see where you reach max speed. Do the same thing again but start walking until Samus takes her first step or so. I don't really know exactly, I just know the timing by feel, there's videos out there showing the exact frame and timing, but you'll reach max speed a few tiles sooner. This is enough to allow some sequence breaks and shortcuts.

 

[Ikagura]

Removing the run button would remove a few speed running tricks that rely on the fact that pressing the run button during a certain frame of animation results in a slightly shorter acceleration time to max speed and shinespark charging time.

I can agree about the tricks but the GBA games has done a good compromise with the shinespark method.

Speaking of Super Metroid exclusive features what is the real use for the moonwalking?

 

[starseeker300]

My favorite part of prime 4 was when metroid said "its troiding time" and then shot mcu quip guy in the face

 

[dr grim]

I prefer the " classic " metroid games than the first person one.

Started with zero mission on GBA, then Super metroid ( the best for me ! ) did fusion and some others too.

the music on the super nes is top, really dark and ambiant.. put the mood instantly !

 

[Graw]

I can agree about the tricks but the GBA games has done a good compromise with the shinespark method

I've never liked the way running and shinesparking worked in Zero Mission.

It's a bit like the difference between the classic Mario games and the classic Sonic games. Mario has a run button, Sonic doesn't. You have a lot more control over Mario than you do Sonic to the point where people complain about the precision platforming in Sonic games but you never really hear the same kinds of complaints about Mario games. That's how SM and ZM's control styles feel to me. Zero Mission is 'push button, go whatever speed the game wants you to go.' Super Metroid is 'use the games controls to move where you want how fast you want.'

Speaking of Super Metroid exclusive features what is the real use for the moonwalking?

No idea. I've never really used it but I know speed runners use it now somehow to launch themselves up a few places they used to wall jump before.

 

[starseeker300]

tier list time

i know super placement will be questionable to most but it was the last one i played except for prime 4 out of these so it didnt really stand out to me. though it did have nonlinearity but in my opinion thats the only thing it has setting it apart otherwise its very basic in my opinion



Source:

https://tiermaker.com/create/all-metroid-games-updated-2021-752654

 

[Ikagura]

tier list time

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I know super placement will be questionable to most but it was the last one I played except for prime 4 out of these so it didn't really stand out to me. though it did have nonlinearity but in my opinion that's the only thing it has setting it apart otherwise its very basic in my opinion.

Source:

https://tiermaker.com/create/all-metroid-games-updated-2021-752654

Super in B-tier is quite a choice.

 

[elbanano]

I remember my first time playing a metroid game, it was fusion, how the hell did i beat metroid fusion, super metroid and AM2R in an android phone? i can't see myself doing that ever again

 

[fake-chan]

I've been playing Metroid Fusion recently, and I have some mixed feelings.

I love Samus's movement and controls in this game. They pretty much address everything I disliked about movement in Super Metroid (except wall-jumping, but it's not required this time, so whatever). I actually feel like I'm in control of Samus this time. Other improvements, like a better map system, are also nice. I don't mind the cutscenes since they provide a nice break.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of the level design. It's too linear for a Metroid game, and it feels like I'm constantly being thrown from place to place arbitrarily.

Maybe my opinion will change once I actually finish the game, but right now I think Metroid Fusion is an excellent action game but a bad Metroid game.

 

[Ikagura]

It's too linear for a Metroid game

Metroid II was also quite linear.

Either there's a pattern of linear/non linear entries or they just wanted to make handheld games more linear for some reasons.

and it feels like I'm constantly being thrown from place to place arbitrarily.

Samus doing maintenance in the station... like the astronauts in among us.

On a more serious note I wish we got to see more biopunk and bio horror in the franchise.

 

[Jeff]

MyNintendo Store has new Metroid merchandise such as an Metroid ice tray with Metroid shapes, Metroid keychain that's squishy, Metroid Duffel Bag, Metroid tech accessory case, and a 8 sticker set.

 

[Ikagura]

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The baby!

 

[Talond]

My first Metroid was Prime 2 Gamecube. Never finished it because Dark Aether scared the crap outa me . Hoping for a NSO release one day.

 

[SamanthaSamantha's icon]

Gotta be honest.

I like the games, the story, the environments, and I'd play the GBA version from time to time... But I could never get properly into it.

I guess it just wasn't made for me to like.