Mega Man Megathread

[Yousef Yousef]

Another interesting Japanese article about Mega Man:

Is the image that "Rockman is difficult" really correct?

As you can probably tell from the title, the author examines Mega Man's actual difficulty, as well as the reasons the games are perceived as being hard.

I actually have a general theory as to why games from the 80s to mid 90s are hard at all.

Platformers from this particular era, AKA castlevania, ninja gaiden and of course Megaman, wanted to introduce a very subtle element of puzzle solving. Where you bypass an enemy not because of skill, but because of knowledge and understanding! Through this, you create a satisfying perceived sense of accomplishment and progression without necessarily requiring a high degree of skill. Thus making the experience more open to others.

This eww vaguely dropped in the late 90s in favor of more action oriented stage designed. The “old” mentality can seem slow and obtuse especially if you just can’t figure out enemy patterns. I believe metal slug (a phenomenal franchise) might be one of the first game platformer series that’s purely skill based and has little elements of puzzle solving.

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2025

I don't want to watch the video because it looks like clickbait to me. TL;DW, please?

No TLDW cuz it’s just random factoids. Not something you’ll gain much from if you’re comfortable with your knowledge. I just thought this guy had some cool vids.

 

[fake-chan]

They really fucked up when they made Megaman X2, then.

Wdym?

I actually have a general theory as to why games from the 80s to mid 90s are hard at all.

Platformers from this particular era, AKA castlevania, ninja gaiden and of course Megaman, wanted to introduce a very subtle element of puzzle solving. Where you bypass an enemy not because of skill, but because of knowledge and understanding! Through this, you create a satisfying perceived sense of accomplishment and progression without necessarily requiring a high degree of skill. Thus making the experience more open to others.

This eww vaguely dropped in the late 90s in favor of more action oriented stage designed. The “old” mentality can seem slow and obtuse especially if you just can’t figure out enemy patterns. I believe metal slug (a phenomenal franchise) might be one of the first game platformer series that’s purely skill based and has little elements of puzzle solving.

Games were hard back then because they would only last a hour or so, otherwise.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

They really fucked up when they made Megaman X2, then.

What do you mean?

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2025

Wdym?

Games were hard back then because they would only last a hour or so, otherwise.

Which I appreciate

 

[χKai]

Because Megaman X2 was epic and a vast improvement to the original formula. Megaman X was good, but it only really set the stage for the rest of the series to take over. Too bad they stopped caring about the story after X3.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

Because Megaman X2 was epic and a vast improvement to the original formula. Megaman X was good, but it only really set the stage for the rest of the series to take over. Too bad they stopped caring about the story after X3.

Agreed ?

 

[χKai]

Agreed ?

Oh and can I just say
THANK YOU for being one of the only people on this earth to recognize Megaman 2 for the godawful piece of shit that it is.

 

[fake-chan]

Because Megaman X2 was epic and a vast improvement to the original formula. Megaman X was good, but it only really set the stage for the rest of the series to take over.

Huh? X2 was essentially the same as X1, except with some gameplay refinements. It's still a great game, of course.

Too bad they stopped caring about the story after X3.

I hate to break it for you, but Capcom never cared about the story.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

Oh and can I just say
THANK YOU for being one of the only people on this earth to recognize Megaman 2 for the godawful piece of shit that it is.

Megaman 2 is an unfinished mess :’ )
Stages end right before they get good and so many gimmicks feel randomly placed with no rhyme or reason. It’s like a romhack at times.

 

[χKai]

Huh? X2 was essentially the same as X1, except with some gameplay refinements. It's still a great game, of course.

Well, so.. It's like this.
Picture Megaman X as one big-ass tutorial  game meant to set up the story for the players to understand the situation and environment, the circumstances that the characters live with. If you look at it like that it kinda makes sense.

Every fight kinda leads you or points you toward the end goal of beating Sigma and the game, but the entire game is pretty much spent teaching you basic shit (basic for a Megaman X pro, anyway), even the weapons are simplistic in their function and natures.

Then Megaman X 2 comes, with an array of much more complicated and dangerous situations you're thrown in; in Megaman X you could come into a room and notice a spike or pit trap, and the game gives you adequate time and ability to consider how to deal with these obstacles.

But Megaman X2 isn't like that at all; instead you are more often thrown headfirst into a dangerous situation with no way of knowing the terrain or impending dangers other than having traversed the level already. But if it's your first time, how would you know if there's a huge pit of fire, or spikes at the end of a long fall you're supposed to jump down?

If Megaman X is boot camp, Megaman X 2 is actual war.

I hate to break it for you, but Capcom never cared about the story.

They cared enough to cheese it up for fans in the hopes of profits. After X3 I think they realized fans were more concerned with blowing stuff up, to consider caring to make the story make sense; they wanted to change too much, and it convoluted the story into something that would embarrass Kingdom Hearts fans.

 

[Stingy Perry Stingy Perry]

Mm 2

Because Megaman X2 was epic and a vast improvement to the original formula. Megaman X was good, but it only really set the stage for the rest of the series to take over. Too bad they stopped caring about the story after X3.

They were occupied putting new gimmicks on the gameplay that they neglected to focus on the story. They must’ve thought who cares about the story if you can play as Zero from start to finish in X4.

 

[fake-chan]

Well, so.. It's like this.
Picture Megaman X as one big-ass tutorial  game meant to set up the story for the players to understand the situation and environment, the circumstances that the characters live with. If you look at it like that it kinda makes sense.

Every fight kinda leads you or points you toward the end goal of beating Sigma and the game, but the entire game is pretty much spent teaching you basic shit (basic for a Megaman X pro, anyway), even the weapons are simplistic in their function and natures.

Then Megaman X 2 comes, with an array of much more complicated and dangerous situations you're thrown in; in Megaman X you could come into a room and notice a spike or pit trap, and the game gives you adequate time and ability to consider how to deal with these obstacles.

But Megaman X2 isn't like that at all; instead you are more often thrown headfirst into a dangerous situation with no way of knowing the terrain or impending dangers other than having traversed the level already. But if it's your first time, how would you know if there's a huge pit of fire, or spikes at the end of a long fall you're supposed to jump down?

If Megaman X is boot camp, Megaman X 2 is actual war.

The way you explained X2 makes it sound like it's a terrible game.

They cared enough to cheese it up for fans in the hopes of profits. After X3 I think they realized fans were more concerned with blowing stuff up, to consider caring to make the story make sense; they wanted to change too much, and it convoluted the story into something that would embarrass Kingdom Hearts fans.

They were including story because a lot of people feel silly playing the game with no in-game context for why and what they're doing.

 

[χKai]

The way you explained X2 makes it sound like it's a terrible game.

How so?

They were including story because a lot of people feel silly playing the game with no in-game context for why and what they're doing.

Exactly; with no motivation to make it good, they made up a story that makes little sense based around an entire civilization changing from the span of one game to revolve around this 'Repliforce' concept with no prior introduction to the concept or their existence whatsoever, then tack on some backstory for Zero to make him seem cooler.

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2025

On the contrary, disliking Iris is good in my book ?

Is it because X and Zero were meant for each other?

Because that's why I hate her ?

 

[fake-chan]

How so?

Your quote:

But Megaman X2 isn't like that at all; instead you are more often thrown headfirst into a dangerous situation with no way of knowing the terrain or impending dangers other than having traversed the level already. But if it's your first time, how would you know if there's a huge pit of fire, or spikes at the end of a long fall you're supposed to jump down?

Throwing obstacles at the player while giving them no time to understand the situation is generally considered a bad level design.

 

[χKai]

Your quote:

Throwing obstacles at the player while giving them no time to understand the situation is generally considered a bad level design.

I suppose if you put it like that..
I guess it really helps to have the visual concept in mind as I describe it. Alright let's start at the intro stage.

You get to the end of the hallway, and you're led to go down and to the right some. With no idea what's down there, you can take a cautious approach if you (from X1) learned to slide down walls and carefully survey your surroundings. Or you could just jump down and risk falling into a pit of sharp pokey things.

It's not that it ever throws stuff at you blindly, it merely expects you to be able to keep up and handle the situations as they come at you; it's Megaman X2, not Megaman Zero.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

Your quote:

Throwing obstacles at the player while giving them no time to understand the situation is generally considered a bad level design.

Speaking of this, powered up fucked up yellow devil in a really weird way.
In “classic mode” (aka where you only fight Six instead of 8 robots), his pattern is nigh impossible to react to.

 

[fake-chan]

I suppose if you put it like that..
I guess it really helps to have the visual concept in mind as I describe it. Alright let's start at the intro stage.

You get to the end of the hallway, and you're led to go down and to the right some. With no idea what's down there, you can take a cautious approach if you (from X1) learned to slide down walls and carefully survey your surroundings. Or you could just jump down and risk falling into a pit of sharp pokey things.

It's not that it ever throws stuff at you blindly, it merely expects you to be able to keep up and handle the situations as they come at you; it's Megaman X2, not Megaman Zero.

When you put it like this, it sounds a lot fairer.

 

[χKai]

When you put it like this, it sounds a lot fairer.

Like I said, it helps to be able to visualize what I mean.

I suppose when I described it, it sounded like some sort of Inti Creates bullshit where enemies will hit you before you can even get a chance to see them on-screen; the situations I meant to describe are all entirely the fault of the player.

Another good example is the first X-Hunter stage. With all your capsule upgrades and weapons, you're feeling pretty badass going into the final levels. So why not just say forget all these bats and enemies all over the screen, jump through the middle of them and get through this level, eh? Oh yeah; a giant pit of spikes to kill you, that's why.

 

[Stingy Perry Stingy Perry]

Megaman 2 is an unfinished mess :’ )
Stages end right before they get good and so many gimmicks feel randomly placed with no rhyme or reason. It’s like a romhack at times.

MM 2 faced troubled development ‘coz Inafune and co. we’re busy on other projects and could only work on MM 2 on their spare time while facing strict deadline.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

On a semi related note I’d like to play maverick hunter x again. I only played it as a kid. Never replayed it after.

 

[fake-chan]

On a semi related note I’d like to play maverick hunter x again. I only played it as a kid. Never replayed it after.

I played it a few months ago. It was fun, and playing as Vile was cool.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

I played it a few months ago. It was fun, and playing as Vile was cool.

Yeah
May as well play xtreme dualogy too cuz I already downloaded them and Delta is a surprisingly fantastic multi emulator

 

[fake-chan]

Yeah
May as well play xtreme dualogy too cuz I already downloaded them and Delta is a surprisingly fantastic multi emulator

Oof, chief. Xtreme games are not very good, but good luck anyway.

 

[Yousef Yousef]

Oof, chief. Xtreme games are not very good, but good luck anyway.

Yeah this is completely uncharted territory for me. I’m looking forward to having a laugh about it afterwards.

 

[χKai]

I could literally go on at lengths about why Megaman X 2 is the perfect sequel.

Usually I'm pretty good about not being biased, but it was my first introduction to Megaman. I'm not sure if I can remain unbiased, however; if it's any redeeming factor, I did go and beat all the original Megamans as soon as I could, and was never one of those kids who was like "this is too haaard" and just gave up and turned off the system. I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of each game individually, despite the frustration here and there. Persistence is key in Megaman games.

 

[hardcoretyphoon hardcoretyphoon]

I've been going through the classic series more or less in order. Finally beat 8 for the first time. Jeez the final boss and wily stage 1 were frustrating. The music is really nice though.