Hot takes

[Tonberry]

post

Thanks for your post and the link to that video.
I don't want to call you cynical or even jaded, because I don't think that's accurate based on your opinions on this alone and I don't want to generalize like that. Though I do think that the opinion itself is coming from a more jaded perspective than my own, which of course is totally fine. I'm moreso just trying to illustrate my more "optimistic" point of view coming from someone who always approached the game from the shoe-less gnome angle, and never even really cared about the opinions of other players (I did wear shoes, but not because someone told me to, but because I wanted to wear shoes and to have stats. I was teased by friends who did raid in 7th grade (lol) because I played the game more like Zelda or Oblivion, but I didn't really care because I found value in exploring the game my way.

I suppose I've never been "hit" by the more tryhard players because I've almost never interacted with them. Now, this isn't saying that they don't exist or that the game doesn't cater to them (they cater to everyone nowadays but tryhards will prefer to hang out with tryhards), it's just that I haven't encountered them.
Since I can mostly just speak for WoW, I'm not really sure I agree with the notion that it was ever not "better shoes = better player" aside from like the first year. Romanticizing a bygone time is fine, but I don't think it's correct to say that the game suddenly stopped caring about people playing to explore and interact with others. It evolved with it for better or worse, and invited other playstyles. My guild master on the fresh classic realms is going to play a retribution paladin while raiding because he thinks it's cool, and people who obsess over being optimal get the boot. "Casuals" who learn the game together with each other still exist.

Anecdotal but; I'm part of a Facebook group specifically made for Solo players (I don't consider myself a solo player compared to many of them, some refuse to group with anyone they don't know) but it's a group of over 80,000 players playing the game their own "suboptimal" way, and still find meaning in the game. Everyone doesn't infact go to wowhead to look at datamining, and everyone doesn't infact choose the best talents because it's easier to follow a guide. Some people want to play a fire shaman, or a warrior who dual-wields onehanders, or a marksman pet which uses a pet. It's probably objectively worse, but the game lets you do it, and not every raid environment would punish you for it (This wasn't the case a few years ago, but fluff/lifestyle talents like that have come back since the new Dragonflight talent trees).

I think a lot of the feeling of disillusionment many veterans have (and the players I kind of meant in my initial post) is self-inflicted to some degree, because their expertise grows too, and their insight on intricacies and what "being good" constitutes also deepens. Coupled with that and maybe that they've been burned by the elitist players, they might think that "this is the only way the game is able to be approached now, then it isn't for me anymore" which I don't really agree with.

I know you both talked about the developer side of things too, and how certain means of interaction have been "ironed away", but I initially just meant player-to-player-to-world interactions, so I didn't factor that in at all. And you're probably right about most of those things.

Maybe all these people clamoring for horizontal progression are right after all. I had never given it much thought before ?

Sorry for the long post. My main point was just that there are still people who value the "old/bad" way of playing MMOs, even in WoW.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

I got 3D Land right for Christmas that year (at the time, I was 13) and was pretty much instantly disappointed by it. Theoretically, it should be my favourite Mario game ever, because it's closer to the 2D ones (that I did grow up with the GBA ports of), but it's just so fucking BORING and EASY and SLOW. Mario moves like a geriatric tortoise through levels designed by people who clearly just wanted to go on lunch, and – especially these days – completing them all just feels like filling out a government form. If you told me the game was a reskinned licensed platformer based on a Disney movie, I'd believe you.

I really hate how gimped all the power-ups were, too – I could not believe they removed the flight ability from the Tanooki suit! What the F were they on!? That was the whole point of the suit! Nobody cared about the buggering tail whip! Even the little blue shell boomerang power-up was just the most boring thing in existence – it's exactly the same as the fireball, the projectile just doesn't bounce off the ground. It was worse than the one in Super Mario Advance 4 on the GBA – how is that possible!?

My view on 3D World is essentially the same, but I honestly think I liked it even less because of all the collect-a-thon bullshit they make you do. (I hate that in platformers!) I played the game exactly as intended many times, with four friends/siblings all making our way through the game together. During every single session, we'd beat one level, inevitably miss some green star or key or something, someone would say "Want to go back and play that one again?", we'd all groan, and play Nintendo Land instead (which, to this day, is still my favourite game on the console by a long shot).

THAT BEING SAID, not that I've played it, I do think Bowser's Fury looks very cool and I'd love to try it out one day. They should make a whole big-budget Mario game like that, with a strong balance of levels that are both open and directed, and that just lets you fucking use a variety of interesting power-ups again. GET IT TOGETHER, NINTENDO!!!!!

Also, speaking of the 3DS, here's a bloody hot take for everyone: As someone who got the console at launch and was heavily involved in the culture surrounding it, I thought the first year was pretty atrocious. The only games anyone was playing was Super Street Fighter IV (port of a then-three-year-old game) and some Tom Clancy tactics game. Before SM3DL, I personally had only Rayman 3D (a port of a then-thirteen-year-old game) and a somewhat-interesting Tintin movie tie-in that played a bit like the sidescrolling Prince of Persias.

The games that people were hyped for that year included Ocarina of Time 3D (a port of a then-thirteen-year-old game) and Star Fox 64 3D (a port of a then-fourteen-year-old game). They didn't even let you use the eShop until, like, 4 months in! I actually felt really disappointed in the console at first, and spent most of that initial year just playing DS games or the free GBA games they gave you after halving the unit's price. Though it did eventually get some interesting free downloads like Nintendo Video, it wasn't until games like Kid Icarus Uprising and Fire Emblem Awakening came out that I finally felt satisfied with owning one. (And, of course, at the end of the console's life, I loved it.)

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Oh, and one more thing...

For some reason I thought you were older than me but you're actually like 4 years younger, huh

I thought everyone agreed the 3DS has one of the worst launch line ups of all time regardless of region

I remember holding a 3ds for the first time at a kiosk at a book store chain and playing Pilot Wings Resort and being like "Thats it?" it was like a wii sports minigame sold as a whole game! it could've been done on the ds no problem and now I need a 300 euros console to play it?? You're pulling my leg


Look at this

Steel Diver, a simple submarine game, I guess it could be decent but for a 300 euros console it doesnt scream NEW, I couldve done it on the ds

Nintendogs again?

Street fighter 4? Maybe down the line but playing it on this uber uncomfortable cramp inducing contraption with tiny buttons and sharp corners sounds like a nightmare, plus I wasnt really thinking STREET FIGHTER when the 3ds was announced

The sims? I already played portable the sims on psp

Sports games on ds, yeah sure

Lego Star Wars? Arent there already 10 of these on ds and psp and ps2?

I love ridge racer so let's mark this as "maybe good" though the ds didnt have a good track record with racers unlike the psp so I dunno, the RRs on psp were awesome

Bad monkey ball, great

Puzzle Bobble? I already have that

Samurai Warriors? Maybe

A fucking phone game? That's low

Some ubisoft game for toddlers

A bad port of Rayman 2 that doesnt say its rayman 2 anywhere on the box, to this day I wonder if you'd have a case against ubisoft here if you sued them for false advertising

Ghost recon? Who cares, and how am I gonna play with without the second stick?

It's 6 7 years after the psp and this feels like it's far below it what the hell

 

[Tonberry]

Also, speaking of the 3DS, here's a bloody hot take for everyone: As someone who got the console at launch and was heavily involved in the culture surrounding it, I thought the first year was pretty atrocious. The only games anyone was playing was Super Street Fighter IV (port of a then-three-year-old game) and some Tom Clancy tactics game. Before SM3DL, I personally had only Rayman 3D (a port of a then-thirteen-year-old game) and a somewhat-interesting Tintin movie tie-in that played a bit like the sidescrolling Prince of Persias.

I thought it was pretty universally agreed on that the 3DS had a really weak start, and that people cut it slack because the gimmick was new and it came with a bunch of toys.

Ocarina of Time 3D (a port of a then-thirteen-year-old game)

Don't do this to me man...

THAT BEING SAID, not that I've played it, I do think Bowser's Fury looks very cool and I'd love to try it out one day. They should make a whole big-budget Mario game like that, with a strong balance of levels that are both open and directed, and that just lets you fucking use a variety of interesting power-ups again. GET IT TOGETHER, NINTENDO!!!!!

I like 3D World, it's one of my favourite Marios, I haven't played Bowser's Fury but it looks fun.
I'm kind of interested to hear what you think of Mario Odyssey though, because I thought that game stunk.

(Nice to see some love for Nintendo Land though, I love that game)

 

[YuriSukiSan]

Some ubisoft game for toddlers

Actually it's more like Punch-Out!! dinosaur edition!

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Actually it's more like Punch-Out!! dinosaur edition!

Now that doesn't sound half bad, but can you blame for thinking what I did when the cover art looks like that and after ubisoft was one of the biggest spewer of garbage on the ds?

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

I'll say this though I want that dslite, it's a tasteful shade of pink instead of those girl toys that are colored like dildos

 

[Gorse]

Street fighter 4? Maybe down the line but playing it on this uber uncomfortable cramp inducing contraption with tiny buttons and sharp corners sounds like a nightmare, plus I wasnt really thinking STREET FIGHTER when the 3ds was announced

The only reason this game was popular at the time was because it had online multiplayer, and for a lot of people that was enough. I didn't get the game until way, way later, and the second that I saw they put the buttons for the super moves on the touchscreen I basically dropped the whole thing.

the gimmick was new and it came with a bunch of toys.

Now, I actually did play the AR cards, Face Raiders, and Find Mii to the extreme, and I still think they're really cute little time-wasters. I also loved, loved a lot of the Streetpass games that came out about halfway through the console's life, especially the haunted mansion one. The 3DS had a lot of neat built-in ideas that, while ultimately pointless, were quite entertaining.

I'm kind of interested to hear what you think of Mario Odyssey though, because I thought that game stunk.

I did, too. To quote a great man:

I hated all the hat bullshit. It completed murdered Mario’s moveset — the things you transform into let you do less than what you can as Mario, so why would I ever want to play as them unless the game specifically forces me to? And I didn’t like how a ton of them were just short gimmick things, too — the game never let me turn into the things I wanted to, and play my way. Odyssey has lots of cute details and the music is nice, but I honestly kind of hated playing it and dropped it immediately once I finished the main campaign.

I know this is a discussion for another thread, but I hate how every 3D Mario game has to have some stupid gimmick that the entire thing is built around you using forever. My ideal modern Mario is something like Bowser’s Fury, where you can just run around a level and use power-ups as you please… almost like a Mario game.

I'm not opposed to an open-world Mario game at all, but I just want one that doesn't have some ridiculous gimmick strapped to the player character that I have to deal with the whole game through. Why they don't just make "Super Mario 64 with power-ups" is beyond my comprehension.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Don't do this to me man...
View attachment 12969

The playstation 2 is 24 years old

 

[Gorse]

And the DS is 21! The Xbox 360 turns 20 this year, as well. ??

 

[Lee__Kanker]

I'm not opposed to an open-world Mario game at all, but I just want one that doesn't have some ridiculous gimmick strapped to the player character that I have to deal with the whole game through. Why they don't just make "Super Mario 64 with power-ups" is beyond my comprehension.

Nintendo likes to act like they hate iterative sequels, like it's a bad thing and they're above it; while copypasting mario games for 10 years to the point even the rpgs and spin offs all felt the same

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

And the DS is 21! The Xbox 360 turns 20 this year, as well. ??

Remember the Nintendo Wii? It turns 20 next year

 

[dropsmegamega]

Well I sure wasn't expecting for this thread to suddenly make me feel old

 

[RageBurner]

Honestly I think I feel old since my teen years.

 

[Tonberry]

I did, too.

Fucking THANK YOU.
For all its supposed "limitless creativity" it offered, it feels like a complete anti-Mario to me, totally rigid and "forced" like you put it.
I don't like the approach Nintendo had when making it (and BotW but I think they handled it way better in general) where they sort of boiled down the games to "Here, take these controls and fuck off" but all I can do with these toys are complete "japanese train ride to work"-tier challenges. I need SOME sort of direction or context, and putting a Hammer Bro next to the Hammer Bro puzzle isn't it.

Nintendo likes to act like they hate iterative sequels

Nintendo can do this when they try. I know you already said you hate 3D Land but still, they did alright with Galaxy 2 (which I still don't SUPER like personally) and 3D World as far as being iterative goes.

Not to link the most boring person ever, but I think he lifts a cool topic in this video, even though it's probably ancient news at this point:

 

[Maresia]

I didn't get the game until way, way later, and the second that I saw they put the buttons for the super moves on the touchscreen I basically dropped the whole thing.

This was the funniest thing from the game, be able to just walk forward and throw Sonic Booms or SPDs sounds way too silly.
I believe you could use this control style on Ranked right? I guess that would be really annoying, but for some casual games it sounds fun, at least maybe with friends.

 

[Gorse]

Nintendo likes to act like they hate iterative sequels, like it's a bad thing and they're above it; while copypasting mario games for 10 years to the point even the rpgs and spin offs all felt the same

Or releasing a new Zelda game that uses the same map as its predecessor.

For all its supposed "limitless creativity" it offered, it feels like a complete anti-Mario to me, totally rigid and "forced" like you put it.

Dude, I know!!!! The fact that you LOSE movement capabilities when you become another creature is just mind-boggling – nobody said during playtesting that actually, yeah, they've like to continue being able to jump or roll or whatever when they were an enemy!? Novelty factor aside, why would I want to be something that lets me do less than I usually can?

And, while I wasn't entirely against the open-ended level design, I truly did not like how the entire game was structured around collect-a-thon nonsense, where you're constantly having to do arbitrary bullshit to make a number counter go up until the game says you can move on. I actually loved BOTW, and in that game, you really can just do whatever you want until you're ready to tackle the goals – you're not just beating busywork micro-dungeon 124 out of 541 to fill a literal bar that triggers the next mega-dungeon.

Odyssey's approach always made me think "Ugh, I'll have to do this now" or "Ugh, I'll never do that, I'll just skip over it", which is just awful game design.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Well I sure wasn't expecting for this thread to suddenly make me feel old

The Playstation will turn 31 this year, I hope she found a man before hitting that wall


3d DS games (NOT 3DS GAMES) are often pretty ugly, and I like low poly graphics
When its for like rps it can look good, but when its for action games man they look so desolate, with desaturated colors and models that are trying tio be way to detailed, it doesnt have that funk the ps1 has, or even 3d gba
There exceptions like dragon ball origins but for the most part..

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

Or releasing a new Zelda game that uses the same map as its predecessor.


Dude, I know!!!! The fact that you LOSE movement capabilities when you become another creature is just mind-boggling – nobody said during playtesting that actually, yeah, they've like to continue being able to jump or roll or whatever when they were an enemy!? Novelty factor aside, why would I want to be something that lets me do less than I usually can?

And, while I wasn't entirely against the open-ended level design, I truly did not like how the entire game was structured around collect-a-thon nonsense, where you're constantly having to do arbitrary bullshit to make a number counter go up until the game says you can move on. I actually loved BOTW, and in that game, you really can just do whatever you want until you're ready to tackle the goals – you're not just beating busywork micro-dungeon 124 out of 541 to fill a literal bar that triggers the next mega-dungeon. Odyssey's approach always made me think "Ugh, I'll have to do this now" or "Ugh, I'll never do that, I'll just skip over it", which is just awful game design.

I liked odissey but did nintendo learn nothing from when they nearly-singlehandendly killed the reputations of motion controls???

STOP MAKING SIMPLE ATTACKS OR JUMPLE TIED TO WAGGLING YOU DRUNK BABOON

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

Why in the many arms of Vishnu can I not aim with the dualshock 4's gyroscope on red read redemption on the ps4 but I can pc? I tell you why, because nintendo completly ruined the public image of motion controls to the masses so now they think it's nothing but shaking instead of pressing A

THE CONTROLLER IS STILL 40€+ THOUGH BITCH, BC OF THAT GYROSCOPE YOU DONT USE

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

Fucking THANK YOU.
For all its supposed "limitless creativity" it offered, it feels like a complete anti-Mario to me, totally rigid and "forced" like you put it.
I don't like the approach Nintendo had when making it (and BotW but I think they handled it way better in general) where they sort of boiled down the games to "Here, take these controls and fuck off" but all I can do with these toys are complete "japanese train ride to work"-tier challenges. I need SOME sort of direction or context, and putting a Hammer Bro next to the Hammer Bro puzzle isn't it.


Nintendo can do this when they try. I know you already said you hate 3D Land but still, they did alright with Galaxy 2 (which I still don't SUPER like personally) and 3D World as far as being iterative goes.

Not to link the most boring person ever, but I think he lifts a cool topic in this video, even though it's probably ancient news at this point:

I liked Galaxy from just trying a couple levels so why not

 

[Tonberry]

I'm here with another one because I can't help myself ?

The music of Souls games is unlistenable outside of the bossfights they play in with only extremely few exceptions. They're not bad soundtracks (except 3 and Elden Ring) but they need the context of the fight.

Also, Demon's Souls has an infinitely better soundtrack than everything that came after it.
This shit is genuinely creepy:

 

[Somnia]

Also, speaking of the 3DS, here's a bloody hot take for everyone: As someone who got the console at launch and was heavily involved in the culture surrounding it, I thought the first year was pretty atrocious. The only games anyone was playing was Super Street Fighter IV (port of a then-three-year-old game) and some Tom Clancy tactics game. Before SM3DL, I personally had only Rayman 3D (a port of a then-thirteen-year-old game) and a somewhat-interesting Tintin movie tie-in that played a bit like the sidescrolling Prince of Persias

Not exactly a hot take though it is always wild to look back at just how bad that launch was. Everytime the 3DS is brought up people mention how the system was overpriced and how it took 1-2 years for the library to get to a solid point.

Though it came about through unfortunate means, the Ambassador program was pretty damn neat as a small gesture to early adopters. Can't think of something like that happening with another system.

Speaking of Rayman 3D though, man what a sorry port...

 

[RageBurner]

Not exactly a hot take though it is always wild to look back at just how bad that launch was. Everytime the 3DS is brought up people mention how the system was overpriced and how it took 1-2 years for the library to get to a solid point.

Though it came about through unfortunate means, the Ambassador program was pretty damn neat as a small gesture to early adopters. Can't think of something like that happening with another system.

Speaking of Rayman 3D though, man what a sorry port...

Through the magic of hindsight, I think the 3DS launch was a symptom signaler of an industry wide problem we are facing routinely nowadays: overpriced hardware and nearly non-existent software for a while. The 3DS did recover and became one of the greats, but current machines might not be so lucky.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Through the magic of hindsight, I think the 3DS launch was a symptom signaler of an industry wide problem we are facing routinely nowadays: overpriced hardware and nearly non-existent software for a while. The 3DS did recover and became one of the greats, but current machines might not be so lucky.

did the ps5 even come out?

 

[Somnia]

Through the magic of hindsight, I think the 3DS launch was a symptom signaler of an industry wide problem we are facing routinely nowadays: overpriced hardware and nearly non-existent software for a while. The 3DS did recover and became one of the greats, but current machines might not be so lucky.

Unfortunately, in the case of the PS5 I don't think it'll matter. Long-term it probably won't have the legacy of something like the 3DS. Kinda sad to consider that the PS5 is on track to outsell the 3DS after just 5 years on the market and only a few exclusives to its name.

Certainly a good system, but in terms of game library its pretty barren. I used to lament how infrequent releases felt on the PS4 but man oh man if only I knew how bad it could get.

 

[RageBurner]

Unfortunately, in the case of the PS5 I don't think it'll matter. Long-term it probably won't have the legacy of something like the 3DS. Kinda sad to consider that the PS5 is on track to outsell the 3DS after just 5 years on the market and only a few exclusives to its name.

Certainly a good system, but in terms of game library its pretty barren. I used to lament how infrequent releases felt on the PS4 but man oh man if only I knew how bad it could get.

And, really, software moves hardware, not the other way 'round.

 

[dropsmegamega]

Fucking THANK YOU.
For all its supposed "limitless creativity" it offered, it feels like a complete anti-Mario to me, totally rigid and "forced" like you put it.
I don't like the approach Nintendo had when making it (and BotW but I think they handled it way better in general) where they sort of boiled down the games to "Here, take these controls and fuck off" but all I can do with these toys are complete "japanese train ride to work"-tier challenges. I need SOME sort of direction or context, and putting a Hammer Bro next to the Hammer Bro puzzle isn't it.


Nintendo can do this when they try. I know you already said you hate 3D Land but still, they did alright with Galaxy 2 (which I still don't SUPER like personally) and 3D World as far as being iterative goes.

I honestly would take a Galaxy 3 over anything they have been doing lately. I didn't play much of 3D World but it felt too easy to the point it wasn't engaging and since it still had that very barebones style inherited from 3D Land it also didn't impress me aesthetically (though I admit its possibly a very fun coop). And Odyssey had all these problems people have already pointed out. And also: collecting moons doesn't feel as rewarding as collecting stars in the past games. Every star was behind some sort of challenge. Moons are just everywhere, even behind bushes, serving as filler for the unnecesarily big worlds. While the actual meat of the game like platforming/challenges are really short. Is the typical quantity vs quality problem.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Trigun is boring

No wait this is about videogames.

I dont get how peoploe criticize Sonic Advance 3 for having an lot of traps and bottomless pits and things that crush you when Sonic 2 has a lot of that as well; Chemical Plant Zone act 2 alone takes a while to figure out

 

[RageBurner]

Trigun is boring

No wait this is about videogames.

I dont get how peoploe criticize Sonic Advance 3 for having an lot of traps and bottomless pits and things that crush you when Sonic 2 has a lot of that as well; Chemical Plant Zone act 2 alone takes a while to figure out

I think it has to do with the lack of screen real-estate in relation to the game's speed. Less visibility and more speed means more blind jumps which means more deaths.

 

[dropsmegamega]

Hot take: I dislike the 3DS. Very uncomfortable, the 3D gimmick just sucks headache simulator tier, resolution and performance was still very low, few games I actually like, many are remakes that would have been better to have in an actual console and also my 3DS bricked for no reason. Still had a better library than the vita at the end, but the vita is so much more comfortable.