Halo Combat Evolved vs Anniversary vs Campaign Evolved

[moonbits]

I'd also would like Halo to be great but I don't think the modern gaming landscape can allow it. It feels like it needs to appeal to everybody except it's fans. Infinite did bait me, I got a Series X after all but that was a disaster that I couldn't even stomach.

(why in the bloody hell does the single player mode need to be connected to the internet)

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Not much point in talking about any of it though. You aren't here for discussion you're just here to be angry.

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

 

[Lena CE]

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

Who said I'm arguing? It's a plain observation, that's all. I like discussing things, but I'm certainly not gonna be able to discuss or argue with someone equating a video game they don't like with /violence/ in some form. It just is what it is, clearly they are extremely hostile towards the 343i era and that's fine. There's just no point really engaging with someone that entrenched. I've heard those same arguments day in and day out for over a decade now, it isn't interesting anymore.

If someone wants to call me a slop defender for liking a game they don't like, then that's fine. It's embarrassing and clearly, they aren't here to be reasonable, but I expect no nuance from this community at this point. I've been deep in the trenches of this scene for a long time. Gone to numerous tournament LANs for multiple titles and hosted many friendly LANs myself. I've played the entire series an incalculable amount and hold it very near and dear to my heart as one of my favorite IP. I have things I love and dislike about every game in the franchise and while I detest a lot of things that Microsoft and 343i have done I like the games overall and appreciate the uniqueness.

If that makes me a shill, then fine. There isn't anything to say to anyone with such linear thinking.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Who said I'm arguing? It's a plain observation, that's all. I like discussing things, but I'm certainly not gonna be able to discuss or argue with someone equating a video game they don't like with /violence/ in some form. It just is what it is, clearly they are extremely hostile towards the 343i era and that's fine. There's just no point really engaging with someone that entrenched. I've heard those same arguments day in and day out for over a decade now, it isn't interesting anymore.

If someone wants to call me a slop defender for liking a game they don't like, then that's fine. It's embarrassing and clearly, they aren't here to be reasonable, but I expect no nuance from this community at this point. I've been deep in the trenches of this scene for a long time. Gone to numerous tournament LANs for multiple titles and hosted many friendly LANs myself. I've played the entire series an incalculable amount and hold it very near and dear to my heart as one of my favorite IP. I have things I love and dislike about every game in the franchise and while I detest a lot of things that Microsoft and 343i have done I like the games overall and appreciate the uniqueness.

If that makes me a shill, then fine. There isn't anything to say to anyone with such linear thinking.

What's with the invocation of "/violence/"?
*I* am the one who just made a simple, single sentence statement. You on the other hand, for some reason, have a problem with people not wanting to be a mindless consoomer of new product..

Instead of writing multiple paragraphs about how "entrenched" and "linear thinking" the detractors are, how about listing the reasons WHY the new product is worth spending hard-earned money on? Otherwise, no one is interested, because you are not actually adding anything meaningful to the discussion..

 

[Octopus]

This escalated quickly. I don't like 343 as much as the next average Halo fan, but I don't really understand this refusal some people have to even entertain the idea of not blindly detesting 343, and these arguments are getting just a little weird because of it. Other people liking things you don't doesn't make them a shill or make them some oddly personal enemy, jesus. If you just blindly refuse to even consider another viewpoint on something, you're just forming a doomer circle which is never constructive.

Halo 4 wasn't a bad game all things considered, I think the core story idea of Cortana essentially dying via rampancy was good and dare I say even well executed. It gave Chief some human element to him as he goes from what feels like denial over it in the beginning to finally acceptance of what is his best friend dying without ever dipping into melodrama or feeling out of character. Let's not talk about 5 completely undoing all of that Cortana ending by immediately bringing her back as evil for some reason, goddamn it 343, or the fact that whatever the hell the new faction 4 tried to introduce were pretty bland. See? There's good and bad.

Anyway, I primarily just wanted to comment on this kind of famous quote from 343's Frank O'Connor mentioned here in that Reddit post linked a bit back (https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2vl26y/we_had_people_who_we_hired_who_hated_halo_because/); "we had people who we hired who hated Halo because of 'X. But what that really meant was, 'I feel like this game could be awesome because of 'Y input' that I'm going to bring into it. I want to prove it, and I'm passionate about proving it.' So we ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product. That is a huge advantage, and that helped in hiring and forming our team". I've seen it mentioned around a lot even before here in this thread as being some smoking gun that 343 was purposefully ruining the series through subversive hiring or something to that effect, but the way I read the quote I don't see that. Personal opinion obviously, I know. People oddly glaze over the 'ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product' bit there for some reason, and just focus on O'Connor's specific wording with 'hated Halo' at the beginning. Having other viewpoints and constructive conflict in a group project is a positive I think, as it ends up strengthening the core once people begin collaborating (the point of a creative team) which is what I think he was clearly trying to say in it; internal engagement like this creates passion (when handled correctly of course), like he said. Considering this quote was specifically about Halo 4 which I feel most people can accept is the least offensive of the 343 era, and like someone else in here already said the vast majority of that staff only worked on Halo 4, then this quote gets extrapolated a little too much I think.

 

[moonbits]

but I don't really understand this refusal some people have to even entertain the idea of not blindly detesting 343

After playing Halo 5, Halo The Broken Collection and getting a half assed omelette Infinite, I can easily justify a burning hatred but, I am an adult and I work in software development so I know that many many issues that plague the studio aren't entirely their fault.

The quote is one thing, but did you know that since they're a Microsoft studio they had to abide by their contracting rules so many staff weren't permanent, causing such a gaping hole of knowledge within the teams. Say, they hire 10 people to handle engine optimization but since they are contractors, they are let go after a year and a new team comes in not knowing shit about how the Blam engine works.

Absolutely bonkers to read all of that after the game launched.

 

[Octopus]

After playing Halo 5, Halo The Broken Collection and getting a half assed omelette Infinite, I can easily justify a burning hatred but, I am an adult and I work in software development so I know that many many issues that plague the studio aren't entirely their fault.

The quote is one thing, but did you know that since they're a Microsoft studio they had to abide by their contracting rules so many staff weren't permanent, causing such a gaping hole of knowledge within the teams. Say, they hire 10 people to handle engine optimization but since they are contractors, they are let go after a year and a new team comes in not knowing shit about how the Blam engine works.

Absolutely bonkers to read all of that after the game launched.

Game development is so fucked on a higher up level is what I've been learning for awhile. Like being forced by your parent company to not have people working on your game who can work your specific engine is such an obvious thing you'd think they'd want to avoid, but yet here we are.

 

[Lena CE]

You on the other hand, for some reason, have a problem with people not wanting to be a mindless consoomer of new product..

Again, you and the other person aren't here to be reasonable, so you'll just put words in my mouth because I like a video game you don't like. All I can do is hope that ya'll grow up someday because man this kind of behavior is embarrassing in kids let alone adults talking about a video game series. You aren't here to be reasonable and talk about a series, you're here to insult me for liking something and vilify me in really weird ways by assuming I don't want people to dislike modern Halo.

Even though I myself insult various aspects of modern Halo, even though I myself have said its fine to feel the way ya'll do about the series. You'll just call what I have to say bait, call me a shill, say I accept mediocrity or just outright lie and say I don't even want people to shittalk modern Halo.

You aren't here to talk about things or agree to disagree, you're just here to be angry. If you weren't just here to be angry me saying I like some aspects of 343i wouldn't cause such heightened responses. It's a video game dude, even if it means the world to me someone feeling differently about it isn't gonna ruin my day or say anything about their character. I don't care if someone hates modern Halo, that's perfectly fine lmao. It's when people just lie or act melodramatic

Like yea I could make a giant response to correct all of kenaipheonix's incorrect statements in their response, but when half of it is them maliciously misquoting me or putting words in my mouth why bother? It'd just be me going "I didn't say that" or "I said this in a totally different context" or "Dude Halo 3 was outsold by all 3 of those CoDs and the PS3 started outselling the 360 annually starting in 2007 which is the year H3 released).

But why bother going through the trouble if I'm gonna just continue to be misrepresented. I'm not here to sell you on 343i era Halo. If you detest the art style shift then fine, I honestly think that H4 and H5 look better than Reach. If you detest the advanced movement in H5 then fine, I just happened to adore how the multiplayer felt. If Infinite's campaign felt underwhelming and that the multiplayer was unfinished for far too long even if it was F2P then I'd 100% agree but I'd take the extra step to talk about how Infinite is probably the most feature-rich Halo out there in terms of multiplayer content variety and such. The games have been out for ages, if people don't like them that's fine and the last thing I want is for people to be a monolith. Differences in opinion are cool and if someone has hated 343i's Halo to the point of feeling /this heated/ about the subject the last thing I'm gonna try to do is pitch it to anyone.

 

[mistymermaid]

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

Not in this instance. I mentioned earlier how much negativity there's been.

 

[Tortuga]

I'm not reading all those wall of text but the only thing i can add to this discussion is: 343 fucking sucks!
They had FOUR chances to make good Halo game and they fucked up every single time
343 hates Halo and hates it's fanbase, that's why they keep doing those garbage retcons and keep changing art style and try to "reinvent" the franchise
So excuse me for not getting excited for another slop after i was served shit on a plate for a decade
and btw 343 shills absolutely exist both paid one and just dumb tourist and slop eaters

The fact this garbage studio still exist and not disbanded is a miracle or rather a bad joke, considering how many actually good studios microsoft killed
If you are Halo fan 343 hates you
If you are old school Halo fan 343 wants you dead!

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Again, you and the other person aren't here to be reasonable, so you'll just put words in my mouth because I like a video game you don't like. All I can do is hope that ya'll grow up someday because man this kind of behavior is embarrassing in kids let alone adults talking about a video game series. You aren't here to be reasonable and talk about a series, you're here to insult me for liking something and vilify me in really weird ways by assuming I don't want people to dislike modern Halo.

Even though I myself insult various aspects of modern Halo, even though I myself have said its fine to feel the way ya'll do about the series. You'll just call what I have to say bait, call me a shill, say I accept mediocrity or just outright lie and say I don't even want people to shittalk modern Halo.

You aren't here to talk about things or agree to disagree, you're just here to be angry. If you weren't just here to be angry me saying I like some aspects of 343i wouldn't cause such heightened responses. It's a video game dude, even if it means the world to me someone feeling differently about it isn't gonna ruin my day or say anything about their character. I don't care if someone hates modern Halo, that's perfectly fine lmao. It's when people just lie or act melodramatic

Like yea I could make a giant response to correct all of kenaipheonix's incorrect statements in their response, but when half of it is them maliciously misquoting me or putting words in my mouth why bother? It'd just be me going "I didn't say that" or "I said this in a totally different context" or "Dude Halo 3 was outsold by all 3 of those CoDs and the PS3 started outselling the 360 annually starting in 2007 which is the year H3 released).

But why bother going through the trouble if I'm gonna just continue to be misrepresented. I'm not here to sell you on 343i era Halo. If you detest the art style shift then fine, I honestly think that H4 and H5 look better than Reach. If you detest the advanced movement in H5 then fine, I just happened to adore how the multiplayer felt. If Infinite's campaign felt underwhelming and that the multiplayer was unfinished for far too long even if it was F2P then I'd 100% agree but I'd take the extra step to talk about how Infinite is probably the most feature-rich Halo out there in terms of multiplayer content variety and such. The games have been out for ages, if people don't like them that's fine and the last thing I want is for people to be a monolith. Differences in opinion are cool and if someone has hated 343i's Halo to the point of feeling /this heated/ about the subject the last thing I'm gonna try to do is pitch it to anyone.

More Ad Hominem & straw-man arguments for the sake of hand-waving away criticisms in a "holier than thou" attitude, hence the accusation of "bad faith."

4 out of the 5 paragraphs of your response to me has literally ZERO to do with the topic of the thread AT ALL. The topic is/was about: comparing Combat Evolved vs Anniversary Edition vs Campaign Evolved.

Not in this instance. I mentioned earlier how much negativity there's been.

If something is worthy of negativity, then so be it.. Tone-policing serves absolutely no constructive purpose whatsoever.

 

[Octopus]

Well that's enough Internet Halo discussion for me, have fun doom posting over and over about how 343 wants you dead or something guys. Stay oddly angry I guess.