Halo Combat Evolved vs Anniversary vs Campaign Evolved

[mistymermaid]

343/Halo Studios track record of incompetence doesn't inspire confidence. Infinite was the closest they got to nailing the Halo look. Play the trailer on a 4K screen and look at the image quality. UE5 is disgusting.

Really. People are only NOW catching on to not trust Epic Games?

The controversy over their store exclusives wasn't enough. Performance issues dating back to games like Mass Effect 1 or The Last Remnant.

 

[eyixon]

Welp...Now this is a predicament...

 

[mistymermaid]

Welp...Now this is a predicament...

The flurry of negativity is something alright. I don't need to spell out which posts are flame wars.

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

View attachment 122504

If you don't remember this guy, he's the Halo 1/2 dev with the famous "30 seconds of fun" quote that was used a lot back in the 2000's.

View attachment 122506

Exhibit number 100534863 - R that 343 never understood or cared about Halo (or maybe gaming in general)

Reading this tread and many other social media posts gives me hope: we used to just eat the slop because it was that or nothing. Now we are not having it. And chills will claim this is a success, they will parade the numbers that will mostly be because "Halo on Playstation", 343 will say that "Given the option, sprint was used by 343% of the players! so this is the move forwards". But it will be forgotten just like all other 343 games.

 

[mistymermaid]

Exhibit number 100534863 - R that 343 never understood or cared about Halo (or maybe gaming in general)

Reading this tread and many other social media posts gives me hope: we used to just eat the slop because it was that or nothing. Now we are not having it. And chills will claim this is a success, they will parade the numbers that will mostly be because "Halo on Playstation", 343 will say that "Given the option, sprint was used by 343% of the players! so this is the move forwards". But it will be forgotten just like all other 343 games.

I dunno. Mario Party and WarioWare have made sprawling franchises out of games that last a few seconds at best.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Son:" Mom i want to play Halo : combat evolved !"

Mom: " But we have the Halo remake at home ."

Halo remake at home : * Shiny Ring : conflict advanced lies in garbage bin *

 

[SeventhSon]

classic example of

Soul vs Souless

 

[moonbits]

From what I know, this is still the original* Halo, with UE5 running the graphics. Same thing as the anniversary edition but they're adding more chapters, missions, 4 co-op and uh.. sprint.

Sounds fine on paper, Halo 2 was nice but they didn't mess with it other than the graphics so we'll see. (Or won't, I frankly don't care that much lol)

 

[Lena CE]

Exhibit number 100534863 - R that 343 never understood or cared about Halo (or maybe gaming in general)

Reading this tread and many other social media posts gives me hope: we used to just eat the slop because it was that or nothing. Now we are not having it. And chills will claim this is a success, they will parade the numbers that will mostly be because "Halo on Playstation", 343 will say that "Given the option, sprint was used by 343% of the players! so this is the move forwards". But it will be forgotten just like all other 343 games.

What do you mean, the internet has consistently talked like this about 343i Halo for like 13 years. It's nothing new, the only difference is that now people have MCC and are over a decade detached from Halo and Xbox's cultural peaks so no one really cares as much outside of die hards. The shills you speak of don't really exist, it's a bunch of people who - like me - don't entirely hate the 343i era and then people who are extremely hostile towards anyone who doesn't just like the Bungie games.

Halo discourse is exhausting; it is easily the least enjoyable franchise to actually engage with because no one on any side is happy and everyone is just so uncharitable and hostile towards each other.

All that said, fuck I hate remake culture, and this is easily one of the most unimportant remakes imaginable. Glad that we get Halo on a shit engine because Microsoft wants to keep staff comprised primarily of contract workers. Glad that Halo 5's campaign was mismanaged to the point of the story we got being incoherent. Glad that Halo Infinite tried so hard to be a massive apology to the vocally negative fans that it had no spine narratively and is a story where nothing actually happens on-screen and it just sets up a sequel we may or may not get a direct continuation of like 9 years after it released. It's just tiring. I try so hard to be optimistic and I defend a lot about 343i era Halo but stuff like this is just such a buzzkill. Nothing new to get excited for, just another useless remake of a timeless classic only unlike something like RE4 Remake it isn't gonna be very transformative to carve out its own identity because the original was just that ahead of its time. At best every change will feel arbitrary or pointless and at worst it will hurt the uniqueness and feel of the original. Just a waste of time regardless of how good it is. I playthrough CE like 3 or 4 times a year, it is still amazing and with MCC around there is just no real reason for this to exist.

The sentiment of wanting the team to learn how to make Halo in a new engine is fine and all but I also just don't really care. I was really hoping for a spin-off to get announced so there would at least be something truly new to get hype for. I guess not!

The franchise needed to end after Bungie left, I'm a firm believer in franchises needed to end and while Halo 3's legendary ending does setup a path to continue, it would have been better left as the end to the series. It's gonna keep limping along because Halo is still one of the best FPS franchises from a gameplay perspective, so it'll always maintain its hardcore audience. Nothing else looks and feels like a Halo game and the game that came the closest in Destiny has its own boatload of issues. If I want to play Halo, I gotta play Halo, no substitute hits remotely the same. Even at its worst Halo is still better than most FPS games and I am a firm believer in that sentiment. No matter how much I appreciate Halo 4's campaign or Halo 5 and Infinite's multiplayer, it shoulda just been a new IP. I applaud 343i for being able to carve out their own identity and make dope shit while still maintaining that core 30 seconds of fun, but it shouldn't have been called Halo!

View attachment 122504

I'm gonna be honest this is a really dumb complaint from him considering Halo CE is the game where hunters are literally able to be one shot in the back with 0 difficulty. It is still fun to one shot them because shooting anything in Halo is fun, but keeping the warthog out of the area didn't protect any semblance of balance because Halo CE's hunters are ironically only slightly more menacing than a grunt or jackal. Hell, at least a jackal shield can stop you from one-shotting them.

Def agree with the trees being lame though. The art direction in general is way too generic pacific northwest and loses a lot of the subtle alien feel that made CE so familiar yet foreign.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

What I find funny is that the original Halo trilogy was kinda-sorta a "remake" to begin with..
It's no secret at this point to longtime fans of the series, but the initial Halo trilogy pulls heavily from Bungie's previous FPS trilogy: Marathon..
Now was it a straight 1-for-1? NO!
Sure, a bunch of names and enemy designs were changed, and several story elements were expanded upon. But playing Marathon would net you the lion's share of Halo's story.

How is this relevant?
After Bungie was finished with Halo, the next group put in charge of the series, 343i, were effectively starting from a similar place that the Game of Thrones show runners were in after they ran out of the original books to pull from. They had to start making up their own material, and although it wasn't all bad, both invariably ended in embarrassing disasters..

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

I dunno. Mario Party and WarioWare have made sprawling franchises out of games that last a few seconds at best.

I really cannot comprehend your point, I dont know what do you mean with short games. Halo was never a long game (specially by todays standards). I have personally beated Halo CE on legendary Co-op in just one sit.

The incompetence, arrogance and greed of 343 has nothing to do with lenght, in fact if 2000+ games would be hot thing they would try to make it happen (and fail)... in fact we could think they tried it in infinite with its "breath of the wild" inspiration.

What do you mean, the internet has consistently talked like this about 343i Halo for like 13 years. It's nothing new, the only difference is that now people have MCC and are over a decade detached from Halo and Xbox's cultural peaks so no one really cares as much outside of die hards. The shills you speak of don't really exist, it's a bunch of people who - like me - don't entirely hate the 343i era and then people who are extremely hostile towards anyone who doesn't just like the Bungie games.

Ah yes... we will totally forget about the chills that defend the horrendous and violent change of art style from a game that has is last new release like 2 before. Halo was not a long lost 90s fps game, Reach was a great hit in 2010 and by 2012 343 decided to just change everything, just because they could. And people defended this crap.

Lets also ignore people defending the REQ packs or the multiplayer that, even if it wasnt bad, it was no Halo at all, and stuff like emblems was sacrificed so they could sell it to us

Pay no attention either to people defending and attacking all the critics that opposed to 343 including microtransactions to the MCC, saying "it was needed for new content!" (important note: by that time Infinite was struggling with maps and modes)

Put a blind eye also to the people defending the Armor coating, saying it would be wonderful because of the amount of huge customization we would allow 343 to add, bring graphs (you can search them on reddit) showing that we actually always use white in our spartans, so losing the color customization was not that big of a deal; or that "they just need to make money for this free to play experience!" (nobody wanted them to go this way)

And finally, let just not talk ever about how the so called influencers/youtuber/etc were just done with 343 failures and call them out, only to realize they needed Halo to still be a thing so they can still have a job, so they switched the narrative to "actually... 343 saved Halo because it was going to be canned by MS at the end of Reach", which is something anyone with a brain would realize it was not true: they just saw great IP to be milked with many copies ready to be sold, just by putting "Halo" in the box.

So yea, the chills where there. People that for whatever reason decided to defend 343 crap and treat them like a princess that needs a rescue or just some silly co-woker that needs help. Now even those people are either gone, or realize they are just incompetent.

Halo discourse is exhausting; it is easily the least enjoyable franchise to actually engage with because no one on any side is happy and everyone is just so uncharitable and hostile towards each other.

Wow, is almost like taking a very well know IP, changing its core mechanic to appeal to other people that didnt playued the game, and then brute force it with million of dollars in marketing and others, is not that good idea. Again, Halo Reach was launched in 2010, Halo 4 in 2012, and you can see how even with the sprint perk, those games are trying to appeal to different people.

It would be if Polyphony decided that from Gran Turismo 8 onwards the IP is now going to be a full arcade game like Need For Speed with rechargable nitro, easy controllers for drift and drive, and less enfasis in physics, instead of beign this sim-cade with a huge enfasis in the real representation of cars. You of course will get this crap of old fans saying "Please, just make GT great again" vs "More slop! please also put Niki minaj in it in season 32"

Glad that Halo Infinite tried so hard to be a massive apology to the vocally negative fans that it had no spine narratively and is a story where nothing actually happens on-screen and it just sets up a sequel we may or may not get a direct continuation of like 9 years after it released

Or... and this might sound a little crazy: they didnt have the performance they wanted to. Halo 4 was practically abandoned by its player a couple of months afte release, Halo 5 didnt make the big push for people to get an XOne, and it also didnt manage to become the great e-sport they wanted to be. And not only this, the core fans of Halo where just dropping the IP, which is something really important when you marketing strategy have them as a safe net for your sales.

And lets not get around the bush here: if Ensemble Studios didnt want to keep the original art style of Halo in Halo Wars 2, they would just make something else entirely and mainting their over-complex art style. And I dont really care what they say in public podcasts, if they really cared about the OG artstyle they would have either:
- Never change it
- Decided to return to it in Halo 5, after seeing its poor perseption in Halo 4.

 

[Lena CE]

Ah yes... we will totally forget about the chills that defend the horrendous and violent change of art style from a game that has is last new release like 2 before. Halo was not a long lost 90s fps game, Reach was a great hit in 2010 and by 2012 343 decided to just change everything, just because they could. And people defended this crap.

Lets also ignore people defending the REQ packs or the multiplayer that, even if it wasnt bad, it was no Halo at all, and stuff like emblems was sacrificed so they could sell it to us

Pay no attention either to people defending and attacking all the critics that opposed to 343 including microtransactions to the MCC, saying "it was needed for new content!" (important note: by that time Infinite was struggling with maps and modes)

Put a blind eye also to the people defending the Armor coating, saying it would be wonderful because of the amount of huge customization we would allow 343 to add, bring graphs (you can search them on reddit) showing that we actually always use white in our spartans, so losing the color customization was not that big of a deal; or that "they just need to make money for this free to play experience!" (nobody wanted them to go this way)

And finally, let just not talk ever about how the so called influencers/youtuber/etc were just done with 343 failures and call them out, only to realize they needed Halo to still be a thing so they can still have a job, so they switched the narrative to "actually... 343 saved Halo because it was going to be canned by MS at the end of Reach", which is something anyone with a brain would realize it was not true: they just saw great IP to be milked with many copies ready to be sold, just by putting "Halo" in the box.

So yea, the chills where there. People that for whatever reason decided to defend 343 crap and treat them like a princess that needs a rescue or just some silly co-woker that needs help. Now even those people are either gone, or realize they are just incompetent.



Wow, is almost like taking a very well know IP, changing its core mechanic to appeal to other people that didnt playued the game, and then brute force it with million of dollars in marketing and others, is not that good idea. Again, Halo Reach was launched in 2010, Halo 4 in 2012, and you can see how even with the sprint perk, those games are trying to appeal to different people.

It would be if Polyphony decided that from Gran Turismo 8 onwards the IP is now going to be a full arcade game like Need For Speed with rechargable nitro, easy controllers for drift and drive, and less enfasis in physics, instead of beign this sim-cade with a huge enfasis in the real representation of cars. You of course will get this crap of old fans saying "Please, just make GT great again" vs "More slop! please also put Niki minaj in it in season 32"



Or... and this might sound a little crazy: they didnt have the performance they wanted to. Halo 4 was practically abandoned by its player a couple of months afte release, Halo 5 didnt make the big push for people to get an XOne, and it also didnt manage to become the great e-sport they wanted to be. And not only this, the core fans of Halo where just dropping the IP, which is something really important when you marketing strategy have them as a safe net for your sales.

And lets not get around the bush here: if Ensemble Studios didnt want to keep the original art style of Halo in Halo Wars 2, they would just make something else entirely and mainting their over-complex art style. And I dont really care what they say in public podcasts, if they really cared about the OG artstyle they would have either:
- Never change it
- Decided to return to it in Halo 5, after seeing its poor perseption in Halo 4.

I feel like you're just an immature person who sees like 2 people say something on twitter and decides its a trend. No one defends req packs, no one defends armor coatings. Maybe you have somehow managed to find the .1% of random people online who defend the systems, but they are a minority of a minority and do not represent any meaningful part of the fanbase. Any rational person would understand that.

I'm also just not gonna accept someone talking about Halo 4's art direction change as "violent" when Bungie themselves drastically altered the style and tone of Halo with Reach. Bungie obviously have more rights to do that with their baby than anyone else, but the point largely still stands.

Halo's fall from grace has less to do with 343 and more with the shift in the industry in general. Halo wasn't even #1 by the time that Reach launched because CoD became the top FPS franchise in sales. Then Microsoft itself fumbled hard with the Xbox One's launch era and a lot of people jumped ship to the PS4. By the time Halo 5 launched the market share of consoles, userbase size and relevance of Halo as the premier FPS had shifted completely.

Nothing lasts forever.

We can also lampoon 343i and Microsoft greed all we want but Bungie followed predatory monetization trends almost as hard as anyone else in that time. Again, the industry itself was just becoming more vile and anti-consumer. It does not excuse any of it cause it fucking sucked, but I don't want to act like Bungie was some precious angel company that could do no wrong.

This is why Halo discussion is exhausting, no one is an adult about any of it. Its embarrassing imo. You're also talking about 343i as a monolith when much of the staff that worked on 4 didn't work on 5 and by the time Infinite launched, very few of the original team remained. The final paragraph is just pointless. 343i is not a single person with a single cohesive vision.

Also Ensemble closed down long before Halo Wars 2 was made. HW2 was made by Creative Assembly.

343i has made a lot of mistakes and as I've stated Halo should have just ended with 3 anyways. Regardless, I think those games are better than some give them credit for, warts and all. That's all.

Also making the comparison to Gran Turismo is funny because GT fans have been largely divided on the quality of that series for a long time. There has not be a universally loved entry since GT4 on the PS2. Everything else has been controversial and contentious for one reason or another, especially Sport and GT7. Call it the Dunning Kruger effect or whatever.

Not much point in talking about any of it though. You aren't here for discussion you're just here to be angry.

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

I feel like you're just an immature person who sees like 2 people say something on twitter and decides its a trend. No one defends req packs, no one defends armor coatings. Maybe you have somehow managed to find the .1% of random people online who defend the systems, but they are a minority of a minority and do not represent any meaningful part of the fanbase. Any rational person would understand that.

"I didnt read it/remember it, so it didnt happen", I saw it, I discuss it on Reddit, X and even Halo waypoint. It was not the .1%, you guys are just again rewriting history to fit your narrative. People claimed REQs where fine because you could earn it in games, and people make statistics charts showing that people usually put white on their Spartans so losing the ability to choose your own colors where fine.

I'm also just not gonna accept someone talking about Halo 4's art direction change as "violent" when Bungie themselves drastically altered the style and tone of Halo with Reach. Bungie obviously have more rights to do that with their baby than anyone else, but the point largely still stands.

Nah, this is either low quality bait or just industrial copium.

You cant possible say that these changes:

Spoiler: Bungie changes

Is the same as this one:

Spoiler: 343 changes

Like this is ridiculous at best, or you are blind

And this is not even entering in the discussion of sound design, music, gameplay, etc.

Halo's fall from grace has less to do with 343 and more with the shift in the industry in general. Halo wasn't even #1 by the time that Reach launched because CoD became the top FPS franchise in sales

Yeah, and previously Halo 3 beat: CoD 4, MW2 and WaW. Reach was just falling short in players in the Xbox 360. And remember that when Halo 3 was ruling the 360, not many people had a PS3 because it was expensive AF

Nothing lasts forever.

We are reaching levels of cope beyond this dimension.

Well, while you eat the slop because "nothing lasts forever", me and many want Halo to return. Many where incredible exited when Infinite launched because BF 2042 and CoD Vanguard where its adversaries. The path was open, they could make Halo return, but failed again.

We will ask for better, because we know Halo can be better.

We can also lampoon 343i and Microsoft greed all we want but Bungie followed predatory monetization trends almost as hard as anyone else in that time. Again, the industry itself was just becoming more vile and anti-consumer. It does not excuse any of it cause it fucking sucked, but I don't want to act like Bungie was some precious angel company that could do no wrong.

Bungie stopped begin Bungie when they left MS. Many devs even left Bungie and/or try to get a job at 343 because they loved Halo, but where rejected because they didnt want anyone that liked Halo working on it (words by ex-bungie employees) and went with people that hated Halo.

But before you say "Oh... I didnt read it, so it didnt happen"

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2vl26y/we_had_people_who_we_hired_who_hated_halo_because/

This is why Halo discussion is exhausting, no one is an adult about any of it.

Says the guy that
- "Oh I didnt read it so it didnt happen"
- "Oh, it wasnt that BIG of change" (Changed gameplay, artstyle, sounds and even music)
- "Oh well... things just doesnt last forever. Just enjoy the slop and keep consuming. Dont make questions or demand higher standars"

So... sure, no adults in "either" side.

Also Ensemble closed down long before Halo Wars 2 was made. HW2 was made by Creative Assembly.

My bad, apologies, I confused the name. I was referring to CA. But the point still stands, and people claims that 343 made it.

Also making the comparison to Gran Turismo is funny because GT fans have been largely divided on the quality of that series for a long time. There has not be a universally loved entry since GT4 on the PS2. Everything else has been controversial and contentious for one reason or another, especially Sport and GT7. Call it the Dunning Kruger effect or whatever.

Ridiculous comparison. One thing is saying (which is true btw) that GT have been losing quality since they started this whole trend of "online only" with Sport and the live service of GT7. But one thing is the lose of quality (which is a good discussion to have, and I hope GT8 is amazing), and the other is the total destruction of an IP.

Gran Turismo is still referred as a top tier racing game, even with all GT7 flaws. Halo is not even in teh FPS discussion, it is either "CoD will dominate this year, or BF?" or previosuly "Will CoD still not be as bad?". Halo is out of the discussion since more than 10 years.

Not much point in talking about any of it though. You aren't here for discussion you're just here to be angry.

Yeah, sure. Like presenting arguments is just to be angry.

I love Halo, and I (and many others) know it can be amazing. It was a game that created trends not followed them. A game to enjoy and just a cash cow for money hungry corpos that want more money and knows idiots like me will get their product (not anymore btw, Im not getting the remake).

So no, I dont want to be angry, I want Halo to be great, to be fun. And I know it can be better, so i will demand a better product. You on the other side just want, for whatever reason, defend slop or a company... or even worse, you lost all hope that games can be better, so you are just like "It is what it is", that is something that me, and many others, refuse to say about a game we love.

 

[moonbits]

I'd also would like Halo to be great but I don't think the modern gaming landscape can allow it. It feels like it needs to appeal to everybody except it's fans. Infinite did bait me, I got a Series X after all but that was a disaster that I couldn't even stomach.

(why in the bloody hell does the single player mode need to be connected to the internet)

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Not much point in talking about any of it though. You aren't here for discussion you're just here to be angry.

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

 

[Lena CE]

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

Who said I'm arguing? It's a plain observation, that's all. I like discussing things, but I'm certainly not gonna be able to discuss or argue with someone equating a video game they don't like with /violence/ in some form. It just is what it is, clearly they are extremely hostile towards the 343i era and that's fine. There's just no point really engaging with someone that entrenched. I've heard those same arguments day in and day out for over a decade now, it isn't interesting anymore.

If someone wants to call me a slop defender for liking a game they don't like, then that's fine. It's embarrassing and clearly, they aren't here to be reasonable, but I expect no nuance from this community at this point. I've been deep in the trenches of this scene for a long time. Gone to numerous tournament LANs for multiple titles and hosted many friendly LANs myself. I've played the entire series an incalculable amount and hold it very near and dear to my heart as one of my favorite IP. I have things I love and dislike about every game in the franchise and while I detest a lot of things that Microsoft and 343i have done I like the games overall and appreciate the uniqueness.

If that makes me a shill, then fine. There isn't anything to say to anyone with such linear thinking.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Who said I'm arguing? It's a plain observation, that's all. I like discussing things, but I'm certainly not gonna be able to discuss or argue with someone equating a video game they don't like with /violence/ in some form. It just is what it is, clearly they are extremely hostile towards the 343i era and that's fine. There's just no point really engaging with someone that entrenched. I've heard those same arguments day in and day out for over a decade now, it isn't interesting anymore.

If someone wants to call me a slop defender for liking a game they don't like, then that's fine. It's embarrassing and clearly, they aren't here to be reasonable, but I expect no nuance from this community at this point. I've been deep in the trenches of this scene for a long time. Gone to numerous tournament LANs for multiple titles and hosted many friendly LANs myself. I've played the entire series an incalculable amount and hold it very near and dear to my heart as one of my favorite IP. I have things I love and dislike about every game in the franchise and while I detest a lot of things that Microsoft and 343i have done I like the games overall and appreciate the uniqueness.

If that makes me a shill, then fine. There isn't anything to say to anyone with such linear thinking.

What's with the invocation of "/violence/"?
*I* am the one who just made a simple, single sentence statement. You on the other hand, for some reason, have a problem with people not wanting to be a mindless consoomer of new product..

Instead of writing multiple paragraphs about how "entrenched" and "linear thinking" the detractors are, how about listing the reasons WHY the new product is worth spending hard-earned money on? Otherwise, no one is interested, because you are not actually adding anything meaningful to the discussion..

 

[Octopus]

This escalated quickly. I don't like 343 as much as the next average Halo fan, but I don't really understand this refusal some people have to even entertain the idea of not blindly detesting 343, and these arguments are getting just a little weird because of it. Other people liking things you don't doesn't make them a shill or make them some oddly personal enemy, jesus. If you just blindly refuse to even consider another viewpoint on something, you're just forming a doomer circle which is never constructive.

Halo 4 wasn't a bad game all things considered, I think the core story idea of Cortana essentially dying via rampancy was good and dare I say even well executed. It gave Chief some human element to him as he goes from what feels like denial over it in the beginning to finally acceptance of what is his best friend dying without ever dipping into melodrama or feeling out of character. Let's not talk about 5 completely undoing all of that Cortana ending by immediately bringing her back as evil for some reason, goddamn it 343, or the fact that whatever the hell the new faction 4 tried to introduce were pretty bland. See? There's good and bad.

Anyway, I primarily just wanted to comment on this kind of famous quote from 343's Frank O'Connor mentioned here in that Reddit post linked a bit back (https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2vl26y/we_had_people_who_we_hired_who_hated_halo_because/); "we had people who we hired who hated Halo because of 'X. But what that really meant was, 'I feel like this game could be awesome because of 'Y input' that I'm going to bring into it. I want to prove it, and I'm passionate about proving it.' So we ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product. That is a huge advantage, and that helped in hiring and forming our team". I've seen it mentioned around a lot even before here in this thread as being some smoking gun that 343 was purposefully ruining the series through subversive hiring or something to that effect, but the way I read the quote I don't see that. Personal opinion obviously, I know. People oddly glaze over the 'ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product' bit there for some reason, and just focus on O'Connor's specific wording with 'hated Halo' at the beginning. Having other viewpoints and constructive conflict in a group project is a positive I think, as it ends up strengthening the core once people begin collaborating (the point of a creative team) which is what I think he was clearly trying to say in it; internal engagement like this creates passion (when handled correctly of course), like he said. Considering this quote was specifically about Halo 4 which I feel most people can accept is the least offensive of the 343 era, and like someone else in here already said the vast majority of that staff only worked on Halo 4, then this quote gets extrapolated a little too much I think.

 

[moonbits]

but I don't really understand this refusal some people have to even entertain the idea of not blindly detesting 343

After playing Halo 5, Halo The Broken Collection and getting a half assed omelette Infinite, I can easily justify a burning hatred but, I am an adult and I work in software development so I know that many many issues that plague the studio aren't entirely their fault.

The quote is one thing, but did you know that since they're a Microsoft studio they had to abide by their contracting rules so many staff weren't permanent, causing such a gaping hole of knowledge within the teams. Say, they hire 10 people to handle engine optimization but since they are contractors, they are let go after a year and a new team comes in not knowing shit about how the Blam engine works.

Absolutely bonkers to read all of that after the game launched.

 

[Octopus]

After playing Halo 5, Halo The Broken Collection and getting a half assed omelette Infinite, I can easily justify a burning hatred but, I am an adult and I work in software development so I know that many many issues that plague the studio aren't entirely their fault.

The quote is one thing, but did you know that since they're a Microsoft studio they had to abide by their contracting rules so many staff weren't permanent, causing such a gaping hole of knowledge within the teams. Say, they hire 10 people to handle engine optimization but since they are contractors, they are let go after a year and a new team comes in not knowing shit about how the Blam engine works.

Absolutely bonkers to read all of that after the game launched.

Game development is so fucked on a higher up level is what I've been learning for awhile. Like being forced by your parent company to not have people working on your game who can work your specific engine is such an obvious thing you'd think they'd want to avoid, but yet here we are.

 

[Lena CE]

You on the other hand, for some reason, have a problem with people not wanting to be a mindless consoomer of new product..

Again, you and the other person aren't here to be reasonable, so you'll just put words in my mouth because I like a video game you don't like. All I can do is hope that ya'll grow up someday because man this kind of behavior is embarrassing in kids let alone adults talking about a video game series. You aren't here to be reasonable and talk about a series, you're here to insult me for liking something and vilify me in really weird ways by assuming I don't want people to dislike modern Halo.

Even though I myself insult various aspects of modern Halo, even though I myself have said its fine to feel the way ya'll do about the series. You'll just call what I have to say bait, call me a shill, say I accept mediocrity or just outright lie and say I don't even want people to shittalk modern Halo.

You aren't here to talk about things or agree to disagree, you're just here to be angry. If you weren't just here to be angry me saying I like some aspects of 343i wouldn't cause such heightened responses. It's a video game dude, even if it means the world to me someone feeling differently about it isn't gonna ruin my day or say anything about their character. I don't care if someone hates modern Halo, that's perfectly fine lmao. It's when people just lie or act melodramatic

Like yea I could make a giant response to correct all of kenaipheonix's incorrect statements in their response, but when half of it is them maliciously misquoting me or putting words in my mouth why bother? It'd just be me going "I didn't say that" or "I said this in a totally different context" or "Dude Halo 3 was outsold by all 3 of those CoDs and the PS3 started outselling the 360 annually starting in 2007 which is the year H3 released).

But why bother going through the trouble if I'm gonna just continue to be misrepresented. I'm not here to sell you on 343i era Halo. If you detest the art style shift then fine, I honestly think that H4 and H5 look better than Reach. If you detest the advanced movement in H5 then fine, I just happened to adore how the multiplayer felt. If Infinite's campaign felt underwhelming and that the multiplayer was unfinished for far too long even if it was F2P then I'd 100% agree but I'd take the extra step to talk about how Infinite is probably the most feature-rich Halo out there in terms of multiplayer content variety and such. The games have been out for ages, if people don't like them that's fine and the last thing I want is for people to be a monolith. Differences in opinion are cool and if someone has hated 343i's Halo to the point of feeling /this heated/ about the subject the last thing I'm gonna try to do is pitch it to anyone.

 

[mistymermaid]

For the record; any permutation of "You just want to be angry" is NEVER a good-faith argument..

Not in this instance. I mentioned earlier how much negativity there's been.

 

[Tortuga]

I'm not reading all those wall of text but the only thing i can add to this discussion is: 343 fucking sucks!
They had FOUR chances to make good Halo game and they fucked up every single time
343 hates Halo and hates it's fanbase, that's why they keep doing those garbage retcons and keep changing art style and try to "reinvent" the franchise
So excuse me for not getting excited for another slop after i was served shit on a plate for a decade
and btw 343 shills absolutely exist both paid one and just dumb tourist and slop eaters

The fact this garbage studio still exist and not disbanded is a miracle or rather a bad joke, considering how many actually good studios microsoft killed
If you are Halo fan 343 hates you
If you are old school Halo fan 343 wants you dead!

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Again, you and the other person aren't here to be reasonable, so you'll just put words in my mouth because I like a video game you don't like. All I can do is hope that ya'll grow up someday because man this kind of behavior is embarrassing in kids let alone adults talking about a video game series. You aren't here to be reasonable and talk about a series, you're here to insult me for liking something and vilify me in really weird ways by assuming I don't want people to dislike modern Halo.

Even though I myself insult various aspects of modern Halo, even though I myself have said its fine to feel the way ya'll do about the series. You'll just call what I have to say bait, call me a shill, say I accept mediocrity or just outright lie and say I don't even want people to shittalk modern Halo.

You aren't here to talk about things or agree to disagree, you're just here to be angry. If you weren't just here to be angry me saying I like some aspects of 343i wouldn't cause such heightened responses. It's a video game dude, even if it means the world to me someone feeling differently about it isn't gonna ruin my day or say anything about their character. I don't care if someone hates modern Halo, that's perfectly fine lmao. It's when people just lie or act melodramatic

Like yea I could make a giant response to correct all of kenaipheonix's incorrect statements in their response, but when half of it is them maliciously misquoting me or putting words in my mouth why bother? It'd just be me going "I didn't say that" or "I said this in a totally different context" or "Dude Halo 3 was outsold by all 3 of those CoDs and the PS3 started outselling the 360 annually starting in 2007 which is the year H3 released).

But why bother going through the trouble if I'm gonna just continue to be misrepresented. I'm not here to sell you on 343i era Halo. If you detest the art style shift then fine, I honestly think that H4 and H5 look better than Reach. If you detest the advanced movement in H5 then fine, I just happened to adore how the multiplayer felt. If Infinite's campaign felt underwhelming and that the multiplayer was unfinished for far too long even if it was F2P then I'd 100% agree but I'd take the extra step to talk about how Infinite is probably the most feature-rich Halo out there in terms of multiplayer content variety and such. The games have been out for ages, if people don't like them that's fine and the last thing I want is for people to be a monolith. Differences in opinion are cool and if someone has hated 343i's Halo to the point of feeling /this heated/ about the subject the last thing I'm gonna try to do is pitch it to anyone.

More Ad Hominem & straw-man arguments for the sake of hand-waving away criticisms in a "holier than thou" attitude, hence the accusation of "bad faith."

4 out of the 5 paragraphs of your response to me has literally ZERO to do with the topic of the thread AT ALL. The topic is/was about: comparing Combat Evolved vs Anniversary Edition vs Campaign Evolved.

Not in this instance. I mentioned earlier how much negativity there's been.

If something is worthy of negativity, then so be it.. Tone-policing serves absolutely no constructive purpose whatsoever.

 

[Octopus]

Well that's enough Internet Halo discussion for me, have fun doom posting over and over about how 343 wants you dead or something guys. Stay oddly angry I guess.