Final Fantasy Thread

[MasterEn]

Interesting, I never knew that. That helps to explain some things with that mess.
I mainly disliked the story with 8, but 13 was just a mess all over; combat, story, characters, pacing, everything.

yeah, there's quite a bit of irony there.
8 had 1 year to be made, starting with the tail end of 7's development and coming out the next year. 13 had 5 years to develop, and was planned to be a trilogy from the beginning; and it is the worst game in the series. i somehow managed to get through it and i haven't played it since. everything baring the graphics and 4 characters, is utter garbage. i spent the last part of the game mashing the a button while swapping the tv over to watch cartoons; only watching the game when a cutscene played.
-infinity/infinity.

 

[Tonberry]

The most offensive thing in 13 was how it just dropped you in the story all of a sudden, and the second you get to move you're dropped a massive wiki document of relevant and irrelevant information to the game and the world.
Least intuitive worldbuilding I've ever seen. It's just incredible how they had the gall to do it.

 

[MasterEn]

The most offensive thing in 13 was how it just dropped you in the story all of a sudden, and the second you get to move you're dropped a massive wiki document of relevant and irrelevant information to the game and the world.
Least intuitive worldbuilding I've ever seen. It's just incredible how they had the gall to do it.

i remember finding the database thing around chapter 8 and i just could not be bothered to read it. i don't mind if some stuff is put into one for later reference; but i think peace walker spoiled me on world and lore building with the cassette tapes where the characters would chat with each other. it was nicely done and well handled on informing the player about various events and characters in the game.

 

[Tonberry]

i remember finding the database thing around chapter 8 and i just could not be bothered to read it. i don't mind if some stuff is put into one for later reference; but i think peace walker spoiled me on world and lore building with the cassette tapes where the characters would chat with each other. it was nicely done and well handled on informing the player about various events and characters in the game.

Yeah codexes are fine if they're handled well and develop organically, but in 13 it was just like twenty articles of weird scifi shit that made no sense out of context, right after a wacky high-speed cutscene where you hijack a train or whatever.

Just abysmal.

 

[MasterEn]

Yeah codexes are fine if they're handled well and develop organically, but in 13 it was just like twenty articles of weird scifi shit that made no sense out of context, right after a wacky high-speed cutscene where you hijack a train or whatever.

Just abysmal.

i think the most egregious part of the entire story is that there is only a single line of text in the game that hints that there is supposed to be sequels to the first game. and it's in an optional side quest that most players probably wouldn't have done since it unlocks i think it was fairly late into the end game.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

The most offensive thing in 13 was how it just dropped you in the story all of a sudden, and the second you get to move you're dropped a massive wiki document of relevant and irrelevant information to the game and the world.
Least intuitive worldbuilding I've ever seen. It's just incredible how they had the gall to do it.

Personally I think it insulted me more with trying to get me to feel for all these characters in a random attack and then on a most wanted list in the span of 2hours (no Hope hate from me I felt for the poor kid plus best mage) and then because of plot of persona non grata from no fault of their own protags removed the world building of talking to people or shopping and expect me to get my fix from pages to read and quests from floating stones of failed warriors?! And we can't forget the initial reviews calling it a hallway simulator and what do you get after all those confined spaces and dungeons? OPEN SPACE OF NOTHING!

 

[Tonberry]

Personally I think it insulted me more with trying to get me to feel for all these characters in a random attack and then on a most wanted list in the span of 2hours (no Hope hate from me I felt for the poor kid plus best mage) and then because of plot of persona non grata from no fault of their own protags removed the world building of talking to people or shopping and expect me to get my fix from pages to read and quests from floating stones of failed warriors?! And we can't forget the initial reviews calling it a hallway simulator and what do you get after all those confined spaces and dungeons? OPEN SPACE OF NOTHING!

 

[MasterEn]

Personally I think it insulted me more with trying to get me to feel for all these characters in a random attack and then on a most wanted list in the span of 2hours (no Hope hate from me I felt for the poor kid plus best mage) and then because of plot of persona non grata from no fault of their own protags removed the world building of talking to people or shopping and expect me to get my fix from pages to read and quests from floating stones of failed warriors?! And we can't forget the initial reviews calling it a hallway simulator and what do you get after all those confined spaces and dungeons? OPEN SPACE OF NOTHING!

yeah, they need to work on the pacing in a story. it's a fairly common tactic to open a story with an action scene but it's not always warranted. the first instalment of my favorite movie series Tremors, takes about 15 minutes or so to get to an action scene. [i haven't timed it, but i think that is how long it takes to get to it] they spend that time not only building up the characters, but adding tension to the story as well. keeping this in line with final fantasy, ff4 - 6 do a fantastic job of setting up some intrigue and introducing some of the characters that you will be hanging out with for the next few dozen hours.
i do think the stone statues are an interesting idea, but like everything else in the game, it's handled so poorly. and you are introduced to these at chapter 11, 2 chapters before the end. as soon as i beat the game, i didn't continue playing, so there were at least a couple of dozen of those quests left unfinished.
i actually started paying attention to the game when i got to the open areas, mainly because most of the enemies were almost one shotting my characters and i actually had to pay attention and input commands on a frequent basis.
found out later from doing one of those statue quests that there was a whole ass training area behind where you spawn in at the beginning of the chapter. had no idea since most of the maps in the game are hallways and any branching path ends in a dead end the second that you see it on the mini map. i just assumed that it would curve off slightly to the right and have a chest sitting on the ground; so it would not be worth checking out.

 

[ATenderLad]

the first instalment of my favorite movie series Tremors, takes about 15 minutes or so to get to an action scene.

The first attack we see, the sheep farmer? The scene starts almost exactly at 15:00!

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

i think the most egregious part of the entire story is that there is only a single line of text in the game that hints that there is supposed to be sequels to the first game. and it's in an optional side quest that most players probably wouldn't have done since it unlocks i think it was fairly late into the end game.

That also pissed me off was how fast they green lit a sequel while 12 was only given a DS title to tell a limped story and landlock me into classes I didn't build from the original PS2 title.

Putting that aside I think what really drove my blind hatred at the time to swear off Square for years was how they seemed to really push Lightning as the next Cloud. Moody, sword, spike hair, deep secrets of self loathing of past mistakes wait was that Squall too? Come on let's try to get a new face, I enjoyed FFX-2's Yuna and how more lively and forward she became after the events of FFX we can handle happy protags! There's also the shadow Lighting casted over the cast which is typical of JRPGS there's only one main protag that is the lead and face of the game but it felt like Aki from FF Spirits Within in that they wanted an exchangeable digital actress to suit their needs to plop into projects instead of being a fleshed character. They already had her lined up for her next movie so don't be too attached and don't give her too much personality we need her flexible so she's not pigeon holed for the next role.

 

[MasterEn]

The first attack we see, the sheep farmer? The scene starts almost exactly at 15:00!

really?
huh, it does not feel like 15 minutes to get to that. i was thinking more of when we see the first monster when val and earl are riding across the desert on horseback. that felt more like the first action scene.
that is still a good scene though, the slow build up; the music.
i think i would say that Tremors is probably the most perfectly made movie to ever exist. every scene adds to the story and doesn't feel or come across as unnecessary.

 

[ATenderLad]

really?
huh, it does not feel like 15 minutes to get to that. i was thinking more of when we see the first monster when val and earl are riding across the desert on horseback. that felt more like the first action scene.
that is still a good scene though, the slow build up; the music.
i think i would say that Tremors is probably the most perfectly made movie to ever exist. every scene adds to the story and doesn't feel or come across as unnecessary.

Oh *that* scene? 32 minutes in just about, they take their time with it. Tremors is the best though, one of my favorite movies ever.

 

[MasterEn]

Oh *that* scene? 32 minutes in just about, they take their time with it. Tremors is the best though, one of my favorite movies ever.

yeah. it's my favorite movie series. i got the full collection dvd set from walmart a few months back. all seven movies and the tv show. it was awesome.
and congratulations for getting the 1,000th reply on this thread. i saw the number for the replies change over almost in real time.

 

[ATenderLad]

Ah, shit, and the 1000th was off-topic, now I feel like an ass!

On topic, um.....FF13 is basically a dramatic misfire, with a scenario that's long on lore but short on character development and interesting dialogue. That said, the combat has a surprisingly engaging rhythm once you get access to all the options available. (That is *very* late in the game though, all things considered).

 

[MasterEn]

Ah, shit, and the 1000th was off-topic, now I feel like an ass!

On topic, um.....FF13 is basically a dramatic misfire, with a scenario that's long on lore but short on character development and interesting dialogue. That said, the combat has a surprisingly engaging rhythm once you get access to all the options available. (That is *very* late in the game though, all things considered).

no, it was completely on topic.
ff13 was pretty much made to be an interactive movie; and it failed.
Tremors is a movie made about 30 years prior and it is a fantastic movie.
most characters in 13 are bland; everyone in tremors is memorable.
character development in 13 is garbage, it's perfect in tremors.
square enix seems like they want to make movies nowadays, seeing how 15 was handled and 13 plays itself; why not compare it to an actual movie?
see, completely on topic.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

no, it was completely on topic.
ff13 was pretty much made to be an interactive movie; and it failed.
Tremors is a movie made about 30 years prior and it is a fantastic movie.
most characters in 13 are bland; everyone in tremors is memorable.
character development in 13 is garbage, it's perfect in tremors.
square enix seems like they want to make movies nowadays, seeing how 15 was handled and 13 plays itself; why not compare it to an actual movie?
see, completely on topic.

Why not hire Bacon while at it? On that sad note Square really did wanted to be a big movie producer. I'm not sure if it was for big payout turn arounds, were movie markets stable at the time?, or trying to branch out of the niche genre that was the rpg market? I don't know why and all it does it remind me of Kojima who was friends of the director of Vagrant Story.

 

[MasterEn]

Why not hire Bacon while at it? On that sad note Square really did wanted to be a big movie producer. I'm not sure if it was for big payout turn arounds, were movie markets stable at the time?, or trying to branch out of the niche genre that was the rpg market? I don't know why and all it does it remind me of Kojima who was friends of the director of Vagrant Story.

there's no real telling. it could be the mindset of; if it isn't a movie, then it won't be taken seriously and is just for kids. movies were pretty stable for a while, and i think around in the 2000's and early 2010's, they were pretty big. that's around the time that harry potter was getting to the final couple of movies in the series. i think james cameron's avatar movie came out around that time too. metal gear was also popular and a lot of people did say it was like watching a movie with how long the cutscenes were. there's one cutscene in guns of the patriots is about 50 minutes long, which makes it qualify on it's own by both movie standards to be an actual full length movie.
13 did also come out during the "push for the West", movement that was happening in other companies in japan at that time. and movies are pretty popular in america. so that might have had an influence as well.

 

[Required Username]

That also pissed me off was how fast they green lit a sequel while 12 was only given a DS title to tell a limped story and landlock me into classes I didn't build from the original PS2 title.

Putting that aside I think what really drove my blind hatred at the time to swear off Square for years was how they seemed to really push Lightning as the next Cloud. Moody, sword, spike hair, deep secrets of self loathing of past mistakes wait was that Squall too? Come on let's try to get a new face, I enjoyed FFX-2's Yuna and how more lively and forward she became after the events of FFX we can handle happy protags! There's also the shadow Lighting casted over the cast which is typical of JRPGS there's only one main protag that is the lead and face of the game but it felt like Aki from FF Spirits Within in that they wanted an exchangeable digital actress to suit their needs to plop into projects instead of being a fleshed character. They already had her lined up for her next movie so don't be too attached and don't give her too much personality we need her flexible so she's not pigeon holed for the next role.

Totally agree. I personally couldn't stand Lightning. Actually the only character I think I liked at all was Sazh.

FFX-2 was alright, but it seemed so forced, like Square just had to milk FFX for all it was worth as soon as possible.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

That does sound right. Games are meant for children or adults with child-like minds. The real form of art is movies where all adults give you respect and prizes and prestige for. Even now when plenty of games more than qualify the title of artistic expression some old coot will say games are not art but then 10 years later be working on a video game directly himself.

 

[MrBird]

And then Motomu Toriyama (the Writer for 13) used the same In-Medias-Res and Datalog style of storytelling for The 3rd Birthday.

 

[Sheepy765]

I love the writing and characters in XIII, they’re not perfect but I can’t help but love them. The combat is also pretty unique and fun, though I can’t stand the eidolon encounters. It’s certainly different from the other Final Fantasy games but that’s not a bad thing.

 

[Required Username]

I love the writing and characters in XIII, they’re not perfect but I can’t help but love them. The combat is also pretty unique and fun, though I can’t stand the eidolon encounters. It’s certainly different from the other Final Fantasy games but that’s not a bad thing.

Unique doesn't mean bad, no, but I think the near-universal negative reception to XIII in particular illustrates that Square didn't do it as well as they could have.

I may be biased regarding combat since I've never liked any ATB system, even back in IV.

In fact V would be perfect if someone could make a ROMhack without the ATB system.

 

[MasterEn]

I may be biased regarding combat since I've never liked any ATB system, even back in IV.

In fact V would be perfect if someone could make a ROMhack without the ATB system.

doing something like that might not be possible. the game is designed around the atb system. the moves, spells and turn order depend on it.
you could try porting parts of the game to another game engine and fix, adjust or remove some parts that would make the game work in the style of the nes trilogy. that would be your best bet.

 

[Required Username]

doing something like that might not be possible. the game is designed around the atb system. the moves, spells and turn order depend on it.
you could try porting parts of the game to another game engine and fix, adjust or remove some parts that would make the game work in the style of the nes trilogy. that would be your best bet.

Yeah, I realize it'd probably be impossible. I think the job system in V was done perfectly, just always disliked the ATB part of combat. Not enough to not enjoy the game, granted.

 

[Urpazurpa]

Yeah, I realize it'd probably be impossible. I think the job system in V was done perfectly, just always disliked the ATB part of combat. Not enough to not enjoy the game, granted.

what do you think about Bravely Default? i really like the job sistem on that game, i havent beaten final fantasy V but for what i played it's the same but with a dedicated space for pasives