Thoughts on the Odyssey?

Did I say the quality of the Movie was lacking ?
I called it Woke and Blackwashing not garbage.

Woke as much as I hate it is not = bad quality.

Baldurs Gate 3 is woke yet a good game.

I made a generalazation that people or at least many don't care for quality and buy badly made games this is why Nintendo keeps releasing broken pokemon games after another yet people keep buying them in mass.

Blackwashing is not something I would defend in all contexts. Like that "historical" Cleopatra movie where they try to reclaim her as a black woman. However, in this particular version of the Odyssey, I think it is fine because this is trying to be a modern re contextualization of the source material. Odysseus feels guilt for what he did at Troy and suffers what is akin to PTSD symptoms, which is a very modern interpretation. I don't think he ever intended to say "actually Helen was black in the Odyssey".

Would I have preferred to see an Odyssey with greek actors, maybe if they all could act well. Do I think a Odyssey movie with all greek actors would get a 250 million budget? Unlikely.
 
We, for two, are happy with our exalted tastes. No commercial pseudo-profundity, no viral trends, no directors who coast by on name recognition alone.
If you want to see a real film about Ancient Greek myths, we recommend Iphigenia from 1977. If anything Nolan has made comes close to that, we'll eat our eyepatches!

Odysseus feels guilt for what he did at Troy and suffers what is akin to PTSD symptoms
More proof that this doesn't need to be seen. Read Onians' Origins of European Thought, and ask yourself if guilt and PTSD were part of the Greek experience.
 
We, for two, are happy with our exalted tastes. No commercial pseudo-profundity, no viral trends, no directors who coast by on name recognition alone.
If you want to see a real film about Ancient Greek myths, we recommend Iphigenia from 1977. If anything Nolan has made comes close to that, we'll eat our eyepatches!


More proof that this doesn't need to be seen. Read Onians' Origins of European Thought, and ask yourself if guilt and PTSD were part of the Greek experience.
Not relevant to the Movie I think but when I think of old Greece I think of Sparta and the Giga Chad that was Alexander the Great
Ancient Greece Alexander GIF
 
More proof that this doesn't need to be seen. Read Onians' Origins of European Thought, and ask yourself if guilt and PTSD were part of the Greek experience.

More like ancient greek warriors didn't live long enough to experience long term effects of PTSD but they had names for similar afflictions.

Hippocrates (one of the first doctors to be documented in history) was talking about the effects of melancholia. However, they didn't know what caused it yet.
 
More like ancient greeks didn't live long enough to experience long term effects of PTSD but they had names for similar afflictions.

Hippocrates (one of the first doctors to be documented in history) was talking about the effects of melancholia. However, they didn't know what caused it yet.
There are so many self-collapsing arguments in this post that we barely know where to begin. Maybe we'll just excuse ourselves and leave you to contemplate this veritable soufflé of assumptions.
But please, read some actual books on the topic. ChatGPT and Wikipedia are not reliable for historical research. Nothing rewards an enquiring mind quite like studying Ancient Greece.
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We apologise, we received some bad news just now. It wasn't right to speak down to you @Strategist.
 
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There are so many self-collapsing arguments in this post that we barely know where to begin. Maybe we'll just excuse ourselves and leave you to contemplate this veritable soufflé of assumptions.
But please, read some actual books on the topic. ChatGPT and Wikipedia are not reliable for historical research. Nothing rewards an enquiring mind quite like studying Ancient Greece.

I'm curious as to why you think you have definite evidence that ancient soldiers didn't ever experience anything like PTSD? A historian speaking about soldiers from a third person perspective isn't really proof of anything. However, I do admit I'm not an ancient history expert, save from what I learned in high school/1st year of college.
 
I'm curious as to why you think you have definite evidence that ancient soldiers didn't ever experience anything like PTSD? A historian speaking about soldiers from a third person perspective isn't really proof of anything. However, I do admit I'm not an ancient history expert, save from what I learned in high school.
The book we mentioned invalidates the premise of that position, rather than supplying arguments or proof. You will realise that it was the wrong question, many historical problems are solved in this way.
 
The book we mentioned invalidates the premise of that position, rather than supplying arguments or proof. You will realise that it was the wrong question, many historical problems are solved in this way.

How? I'm quite intrigued.
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We, for two, are happy with our exalted tastes. No commercial pseudo-profundity, no viral trends, no directors who coast by on name recognition alone.
If you want to see a real film about Ancient Greek myths, we recommend Iphigenia from 1977. If anything Nolan has made comes close to that, we'll eat our eyepatches!

Well, my thought about film-making is different. Every director should have their own take and making the same type of movie over and over is pointless. Adding modern elements to the movie just makes it more relatable to an audience that is no longer connected to the ancient world. But I can see how that would displease a history buff. Fortunately, there are many movies for different tastes. That is a feature, not a bug!

Also, I can guarantee you that this movie has increased interest in other versions of the Odyssey and the original text. So its all a net positive as far as I'm concerned.
 
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The book we mentioned invalidates the premise of that position, rather than supplying arguments or proof. You will realise that it was the wrong question, many historical problems are solved in this way.
I am curious besides books any Historical Channels you would recommend that are not horse shite ?

sadly to many sell outs who can't stop bringing politics into it.

Of course readind directly from the source is always better and more reliable,but books cost money and no sadly I can't simply borrow them in a library that also costs money.

And reading whole ass books online is not the most comfy way of doing so.
If I find the online to read at all.
 
I am curious besides books any Historical Channels you would recommend that are not horse shite ?

sadly to many sell outs who can't stop bringing politics into it.

Of course readind directly from the source is always better and more reliable,but books cost money and no sadly I can't simply borrow them in a library that also costs money.

And reading whole ass books online is not the most comfy way of doing so.
If I find the online to read at all.

Sadly you can't disconnect politics from history. Especially when many of the historical sources were politicians themselves! You need to study the source themselves and their bias and compare with other sources to get the full picture. Even then there's many things we are unable to know about ancient history.

Like what is the point of regurgitating pro Roman propaganda from Roman politicians and calling that history?
 
Sadly you can't disconnect politics from history. Especially when many of the historical sources were politicians themselves! You need to study the source themselves and their bias and compare with other sources to get the full picture. Even then there's many things we are unable to know about ancient history.

Like what is the point of regurgitating pro Roman propaganda from Roman politicians and calling that history?
We agree on this point.
History sadly is terribly biased since its in the nature of us humans.

To look up many sources is tedious but necessary.
 
@Dyne, your instincts were right. Probably best to close this.
I believe in you guys!
Polite disagreement is almost a lost art at this point, lol.
It started to get a bit abrasive but you turned it around I think.

I'm enjoying this conversation so I hope you guys stay cool.
 
Personally, I won't be watching this one. Outside of Following and The Prestige, I've never been a fan of Nolan and his works. The trailer told me what I needed to know; that it would be another bog-standard Nolan film; a compelling premise unfortunately wrapped up in pretentious pseudo-intellectualism, an insecurity that runs through nearly his entire filmography of being stuck between wanting to be big blockbusters, but also artsy and "serious".

On the debate over the controversy this film has started; my only real input on that; is for me I just don't like all the hypocrisy around "accurate portrayals of history/cultures/folklores" etc. This isn't a new thing either, anyone whose paid attention will have noticed this has been happening for over 15 years now.

I really saw talk of that live action remake of Moana and how people were praising it for how it shows Polynesian culture, noting the cast is made up almost entirely (except for one) of people of indigenous Oceanian descent. Other films based on African or various Asian cultures are also often praised for these aspects, but yet for films, or anything really, based on European cultures, histories and folklores; it's seen as a bad thing to be accurate or faithful in the same way. Look at Robert Eggers' The Northman from a few years ago. That stood out as being a very faithful depiction of Scandinavian cultures from that time period, as well as being based on the legend of Amleth, an extremely influential piece of Norse folklore, but yet he got A LOT of backlash for having an all white, mostly European, cast.

That's really all it is for me; the hypocrisy and inconsistency of people and how they apply their standards to things.
 
Personally, I won't be watching this one. Outside of Following and The Prestige, I've never been a fan of Nolan and his works. The trailer told me what I needed to know; that it would be another bog-standard Nolan film; a compelling premise unfortunately wrapped up in pretentious pseudo-intellectualism, an insecurity that runs through nearly his entire filmography of being stuck between wanting to be big blockbusters, but also artsy and "serious".

On the debate over the controversy this film has started; my only real input on that; is for me I just don't like all the hypocrisy around "accurate portrayals of history/cultures/folklores" etc. This isn't a new thing either, anyone whose paid attention will have noticed this has been happening for over 15 years now.

I really saw talk of that live action remake of Moana and how people were praising it for how it shows Polynesian culture, noting the cast is made up almost entirely (except for one) of people of indigenous Oceanian descent. Other films based on African or various Asian cultures are also often praised for these aspects, but yet for films, or anything really, based on European cultures, histories and folklores; it's seen as a bad thing to be accurate or faithful in the same way. Look at Robert Eggers' The Northman from a few years ago. That stood out as being a very faithful depiction of Scandinavian cultures from that time period, as well as being based on the legend of Amleth, an extremely influential piece of Norse folklore, but yet he got A LOT of backlash for having an all white, mostly European, cast.

That's really all it is for me; the hypocrisy and inconsistency of people and how they apply their standards to things.

While this is fair, I don't think there's any requirement that every actor in a film perfectly match the ethnicity/skin color of the character. I personally don't care either way and would prefer to see the best actors possible rather than some strict devotion to accuracy. Not saying they achieved that with the Odyssey (Tom Holland kind of sucked in this movie) but anyway...

Edit: Also there are approaches to adaptations that are deliberately going against the strict adherence to the text. Like Baz Lurhman's adaptation of Romeo and Juliet (1994) that was set in modern times. Or Black Orpheus (1959) an adaptation of the Myth of Orpheus and Eurydice but set in modern Brazil. Those are valid approaches too in their own right, at least to me.
 
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How? I'm quite intrigued.
Read the book, it's quite long so we can't summarise it in one post. We'll just say that it maps out the ancient psyche in such a way that an entirely different set of questions spring to mind.
I am curious besides books any Historical Channels you would recommend that are not horse shite ?
Nothing comes close to books, but this series is at least palatable.
Sadly you can't disconnect politics from history. Especially when many of the historical sources were politicians themselves!
Biases can actually be useful to historians. Once you accept that nobody who ever lived was entirely truthful, you begin to value lies for revealing the efforts of concealment. When you can see what politicians wanted their people to believe, you can begin to see the ambition of that politician taking shape.

Part of the problem with more recent historians is the belief that nowadays we have acquired objectivity. We haven't, we aren't any better than Thucydides. In many ways we have fallen short of the ancient writers.
For a relatively modern perspective we recommend the writings of Jacob Burckhardt.
 
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