This isn't a console war, it's a console mercy killing....

[DinoRexMax]

The console wars died years ago,

Nah, man. it ended last year. Gamestop said so.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gamestop-declares-the-console-wars-officially-over-with-halo-on-ps5/1100-6535718/

 

[BrawlMan]

Nah, man. it ended last year. Gamestop said so.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gamestop-declares-the-console-wars-officially-over-with-halo-on-ps5/1100-6535718/

Adorable.

Those fuckers have been out of touch since the late 2000s, and don't dictate shit. Especially after doing so more layoffs and closing stores because of their own decades building worth of fuck ups.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gamestop-store-closures-2026-see-131500260.html

 

[bjork]

Adorable.

Those fuckers have been out of touch since the late 2000s, and don't dictate shit. Especially after doing so more layoffs and closing stores because of their own decades building worth of fuck ups.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gamestop-store-closures-2026-see-131500260.html

You seem really angry

 

[PhaseJump]

You seem really angry

Careful. He might try to backseat mod you about it, or start policing conversations again.

 

[moonbits]

I like my convenience, I don't think they're going anywhere. The games being on PC doesn't make them irrelevant, that's just an enthusiast club propaganda, half of Steam userbase can't even run console exclusives until 3-5 years when they get more suitable hardware.

Spoiler

Been hearing this death of console shit since the late 2000s. Not everyone is going to get a Bugatti to go to Costco

 

[BrawlMan]

You seem really angry

Nope. Just spitting facts and truth. Those in charge are the ones that fucked up.

Careful. He might try to backseat mod you about it, or start policing conversations again.

And you had no problem going off topic with a joke.

I like my convenience, I don't think they're going anywhere. The games being on PC doesn't make them irrelevant, that's just an enthusiast club propaganda, half of Steam userbase can't even run console exclusives until 3-5 years when they get more suitable hardware.

Spoiler

Been hearing this death of console shit since the late 2000s. Not everyone is going to get a Bugatti to go to Costco

Ultimate truth.

 

[moonbits]

You gotta think outside the box, of course us being the ultimate enthusiast club turbo retro nerds that count the scanlines in our Lottes.gsl filter when playing obscure japanese arcade game, perhaps consoles aren't suited for us but there's a huge, HUGE market, a casual market and that's what they aim at.

I can understand, even agree to the points being made here. PC is the ultimate platform for enthusiast gaming but making it the only place to play games is a absolutely bonkers.

 

[bjork]

Nope. Just spitting facts and truth. Those in charge are the ones that fucked up.

Oh. You're one of those. Nevermind!

 

[BrawlMan]

You gotta think outside the box, of course us being the ultimate enthusiast club turbo retro nerds that count the scanlines in our Lottes.gsl filter when playing obscure japanese arcade game, perhaps consoles aren't suited for us but there's a huge, HUGE market, a casual market and that's what they aim at.

I can understand, even agree to the points being made here. PC is the ultimate platform for enthusiast gaming but making it the only place to play games is a absolutely bonkers.

Yes. Somebody else finally gets it, and are not sniffing farts about it.

Oh. You're one of those. Nevermind!

Damn straight.

 

[Ikagura]

Another point is that most indies tend to make way too much homages with added stuff but are still way too much like fan-games than stand alone games overall .

That is my perspective on indies but i could be wrong on that point.

And why should it affect the intrinsic value of those indie games as long as they're good?

Especially if the actual series they're based on no longer have games (nor quality releases).

You can't just make a game like "Final Fantasy 98 + Mario Rpg with a little bit of Earthbound for spice" and indie game genuinely has to bring something unique to the table to really standout (most often it's their art style or soundtrack, something corporate wouldn't take a risk on for a larger budget product).

Not every indies are copies either and sometimes people want the same experience as the older games.

If there's any game I can think of (despite not being really "indie") that's just AWASH in homage, it's Sonic Mania. It's great that it got made, and it's really well done (better than Sonic CD, and especially Sonic 4) but it really is just Sonic 3 again, y'know?

Better than CD is debatable because CD is one of the most popular classic games.

Then again Sonic 3&K is Sonic 2 with expanded levels which itself is Sonic 1 with new features and better level design.

You can talk about Freedom Planet which doesn't merely copy Sonic (since the game has dedicated attack buttons, three characters with specific ability that set them appart more than Tails and Knuckles as well as good challenging bosses) as well as the Spark the Electric Jester series that also has some emphasis on battles.

 

[iamthemilkman]

This generation has been pretty awful. That's why I'm fine with it lasting until 2030. Why start a new generation when it feels like this one hasn't even started? Additionally, with games taking so long to make and costing so much money, why should we make that even worse? It's just stupid. We used to get 3 Mass Effect games, 3 Uncharted games and TLOU, 3 Bioshock games, 3 Resistance games, 4 Halo games, and on and on, in a single generation. Now we're lucky to get one.

 

[moonbits]

This generation has been pretty awful. That's why I'm fine with it lasting until 2030. Why start a new generation when it feels like this one hasn't even started? Additionally, with games taking so long to make and costing so much money, why should we make that even worse? It's just stupid. We used to get 3 Mass Effect games, 3 Uncharted games and TLOU, 3 Bioshock games, 3 Resistance games, 4 Halo games, and on and on, in a single generation. Now we're lucky to get one.

Don't romanticise those eras, those people died making those games. Crunched to death and tears because of insane publisher demands. We don't do it anymore because it was insanity.

It's now people like you and me making games, not baby boomers with insane working environments. Nobody wants to die for this shit, no matter the passion.

 

[PhaseJump]

Don't romanticise those eras, those people died making those games. Crunched to death and tears because of insane publisher demands. We don't do it anymore because it was insanity.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

And why should it affect the intrinsic value of those indie games as long as they're good?

Especially if the actual series they're based on no longer have games (nor quality releases).

Because why should we , for example , have 20 different flavours of earthbound-, Contra- , Doom- and Streets of Rage- clones that stays at the ground concept of those said games , that dont really add anything meaningful to elevate the game further than just ( insert old classic IP ) - at home with few simple mechanics added in ?

Its not about if these games were fun or good ( even those movie-games , walking-sims and openworld-wastelands can be fun and good too ) but what variety they could finally offer except the homage route .
Many cancled games with concepts are lying there in videogame-archives ( Unseen64 for example ) and waiting to take inspiration and make own games out of it . If indie-games should be the future of gaming then it needs to dare more .

Homages have their place and its still possible to make an homage into something more .

But it would be great to see some real Dare-devils of the gaming industry that doesnt fear concepts that goes far beyond the basics and deliver games that goes for something that push the gameplay more .

The Amiga , the Ps1 , the Snes brought alot of those games that pushed the gameplay to its extremes , with approaches that nobody thought to tried themselves and evolve it into something different .

We had alot of Dungeoncrawlers on the Amiga till Hired Guns was released . Even with its flaws , the concept of an mission based cyberpunk Dungeon-crawler was still genius and unheard of . Maybe even an inspiration to Rainbow six overall with its similarities .

The first Jurassic Park game on the Snes was very flawed but it had something going for with its own overall concept that could be made into a great games .

The huge library of Psygnosis-games that were way ahead of its time and still suprises people what gaming can offer is still an statement that cant be ignored .

And those examples alone were from small dev-teams and those could be seen as indie-games too or atleast high enough as double AA games .

More variety of game-designs and genre approaches is what i wanna tell . And indie is more capable than that .

 

[BrawlMan]

Contra

• Blazing Chrome
• Neon Inferno
• Terminator 2D: Fate
• Super Cyborg

All of them and more do something different from Contra that works for them.

Doom

There are a lot of those, yet most of them are doing well or great with their target audience and beyond. So not much doom and gloom there.

Streets of Rage- clones

• The TakeOver
• Final Vendetta
• Fight n' Rage
• TMNT: Shredder's Revenge
• Rushing Beat X
• Dancin Divas
• Double Dragon Gaiden
• Double Dragon Revive
• Ninja Saviors
• Final Knight

Nearly all of these games I listed play completely differently from Streets of Rage, or only take one or two aspects from Streets of Rage 3, and do their own thing (The TakeOver, Final Vendetta, and Fight n' Rage). I know RBX ain't out yet, and the franchise itself was copying both SOR and Final Fight back in the 90s, but this game plays nothing like SOR4, nor the other games in the Streets of Rage franchise. Play the demo on Steam. Dancin Divas is basically Ninja Baseball Batman visually, but more Tex Avery style, and plays only somewhat similarly to NBB.


Remember what we talked about? Not as bad, nor as big as a problem as you think the indie circle. Drop the cynicism and pessimism.

This generation has been pretty awful.

This generation could've have been better, yet I got plenty of the games I wanted and more. I can't speak for everyone and their own expectations nor feelings, but I don't regret the time I have or had with these games. Especially on the indie side.

Now we're lucky to get one.

Well, the AAA(A) should really learn to tone it down on the budgets and diminishing returns. So far, Capcom and Nintendo gets this right on consistent basis and learn not everything needs a $100+ million budget. And Capcom had to relearn that lesson after 7th generation and part way into 8th generation. They, Nintendo, Sega, and a few others actually bother to make smaller budget games now or again.

 

[dkpopman]

I feel like the normie position, which is the majority, is that exclusives aren't a selling point. Most console sales are made for and by people who aren't interested in PC gaming. Feel like this simple fact gets ignored a lot in discussions of console sales.

At this point, most people bought a PS4, so they're gonna get a PS5 when they learn that their library is forward compatible. And most parents are gonna buy their kids nintendo, because thats what we've decided is the kids console, culturally speaking. Sony will stay relevant just because of that, I believe. Nintendo could do literally anything and be okay at this point.

Xbox however... they're not getting the casuals or the hardcores anymore. They might be dead already, honestly.

 

[Kovlak]

I am not part of the Nintendo defense force, but I call bullshit. The Wii U was a total misfire, but Switch did great and sold many consoles for many reasons. I see no value in a Switch 2 right now, and I probably won't get one until at least 2 years+ down the line. Now my main problem with Nintendo is them never price dropping their first party games after the Wii U, because they claim it "devalues" their brand. That is total and pure bullshit. It's why I rarely get a 1st party game at full price, and either by them used, or trade in a different game I don't care about to cheapen the price. That said, Switch 2 is sell great. I have no need for the moment, mainly because most of the games on my Switch are not graphics heavy and wouldn't benefit much or don't need the performance upgrade. Most of the games on my Switch are 3rd party, and that's always been a pattern for me whenever I got a Nintendo console.

It's wild to me that I got a Switch, got 60+ games and none are from Nintendo. I just can't justify getting them when they're comparatively expensive to other games of similar or better quality and it's often an expensive shot in the dark. Why would I try Xenoblade Chronicles when I can get Nier Automata for a third of the price?

They did so well during his time that he took a salary cut to avoid layoffs. Hearts and minds don't keep a company afloat. This thread is ridiculous.

While its true that not every bet Nintendo made was fire, but it was a very different way of managing a company to what is now. Current leadership is all about investors' profits. Nintendo feels very different nowadays.

I feel like the normie position, which is the majority, is that exclusives aren't a selling point. Most console sales are made for and by people who aren't interested in PC gaming. Feel like this simple fact gets ignored a lot in discussions of console sales.

At this point, most people bought a PS4, so they're gonna get a PS5 when they learn that their library is forward compatible. And most parents are gonna buy their kids nintendo, because thats what we've decided is the kids console, culturally speaking. Sony will stay relevant just because of that, I believe. Nintendo could do literally anything and be okay at this point.

Xbox however... they're not getting the casuals or the hardcores anymore. They might be dead already, honestly.

I can speak for myself when I say I won't spend 450-550€ on a PS5 because of retrocompatibility. I instead got a PS4 Pro with 5 years warranty.

This generation seems first of all a betrayal of early adopters, sold on promises of great games and memorable experiences, and with the general silent shift of publishers and developers to pursue bigger audiences and live service games, ended up seeing released very few outstanding games, like Baldur's Gate 3 and Expedition 33.

It's very funny seeing most online discourse about current gaming not being about games, but either on some controversy or hardware and implementations of AI (FSR, etc.).

I got a Switch, a PS4 Pro, a PS4, a PS Vita, an Xbox 360, a PSP, an Android phone and a tablet and a good laptop and I don't see myself getting anything newer for gaming. It's just isn't worth the squeeze for getting it.

 

[dkpopman]

I can speak for myself when I say I won't spend 450-550€ on a PS5 because of retrocompatibility. I instead got a PS4 Pro with 5 years warranty.

You posting on this site is a clear indicator that you are not a normal consumer, like I'm talking about, though.

Folks, if you ever let yourself slip into being out of touch, that's totally fine. Just be aware of what you're out of touch about.

 

[Kovlak]

You posting on this site is a clear indicator that you are not a normal consumer, like I'm talking about, though.

A normal consumer nowadays and a gamer has most likely a phone and is significant better informed and engaged about gaming than in the past. That's probably part of the reason we're seeing so many suprising flops. People aren't as mindless consuming as you seem to be hinting at.

 

[Badseed Badseed]

No matter what, PCs are are more expensive than Consoles. Not everyone had the disposable budget to upgrade their PC to keep up with technology and playing games at the best possible graphics settings.

Even if you're happy to scale back the settings, buying a PC which is capable of playing modern games at decent settings, it was almost impossible to build a PC with equivalent abilities at the price of a PS5 without some severe compromises. Big Tech YT channels like Linus Tech Tips tried! And the price gap is even larger now!

Most games are also still being developed for consoles first so the aging PS5 purchased back when the system was released back in 2020 can still play all modern games and will continue to do so. 1 purchase back then will last for the duration of the console lifecycle. Since the, I've had to build a whole PC since then and upgraded a few parts within that time...

You're right not everyone can afford a top end computer. But you dont
need one, pony up for a quality mid range with a good GPU and you'll
be able to run like 89% of games. I mean people were having this same discussion back with Windows 95. So don't worry things wont change and PC will still rule the roost. And i DO want that like $12,000
Alienware liquid cooled computer.

 

[moonbits]

I mean people were having this same discussion back with Windows 95.

It's the same thing, over and over.. and over.

 

[dkpopman]

has most likely a phone and is significant better informed and engaged about gaming than in the past.

No shade, but I don't think you are in touch on this. This absolutely isn't true for the sportsball-only crowd, which is a massive chunk of the market. Those people go for consoles on top of their phone gaming. That's just the reality.

 

[moonbits]

Lack of information is a double edged blade, like when you browse countless phone models because you wanna make a better purchase. Some people don't want to juggle and compare millions of phones and choose an iPhone, more expensive but they know what they are getting into. Same thing with Nintendo, you know what you are getting into for better or for worse.

Nintendo and Apple have their horrifying business practices, but that's another topic all together. People at the end don't care, and this topic gets political if we go down that route.

 

[Badseed Badseed]

As someone who was homeless for 11 years and was only able to
play games on my phone than later a tablet, I can emphatically say:
Mobile Gaming sucks donkey ... well you know. Thank God I made it out,
live a normal life and can game on my PC and 360.

 

[Kovlak]

No shade, but I don't think you are in touch on this. This absolutely isn't true for the sportsball-only crowd, which is a massive chunk of the market. Those people go for consoles on top of their phone gaming. That's just the reality.

Curiously, do you know sports franchises like EA Sports FC 26 is selling significantly less?