This isn't a console war, it's a console mercy killing....

[DinoRexMax]

The console wars died years ago,

Nah, man. it ended last year. Gamestop said so.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gamestop-declares-the-console-wars-officially-over-with-halo-on-ps5/1100-6535718/

 

[BrawlMan]

Nah, man. it ended last year. Gamestop said so.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/gamestop-declares-the-console-wars-officially-over-with-halo-on-ps5/1100-6535718/

Adorable.

Those fuckers have been out of touch since the late 2000s, and don't dictate shit. Especially after doing so more layoffs and closing stores because of their own decades building worth of fuck ups.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gamestop-store-closures-2026-see-131500260.html

 

[bjork]

Adorable.

Those fuckers have been out of touch since the late 2000s, and don't dictate shit. Especially after doing so more layoffs and closing stores because of their own decades building worth of fuck ups.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gamestop-store-closures-2026-see-131500260.html

You seem really angry

 

[PhaseJump]

You seem really angry

Careful. He might try to backseat mod you about it, or start policing conversations again.

 

[moonbits]

I like my convenience, I don't think they're going anywhere. The games being on PC doesn't make them irrelevant, that's just an enthusiast club propaganda, half of Steam userbase can't even run console exclusives until 3-5 years when they get more suitable hardware.

Spoiler

Been hearing this death of console shit since the late 2000s. Not everyone is going to get a Bugatti to go to Costco

 

[BrawlMan]

You seem really angry

Nope. Just spitting facts and truth. Those in charge are the ones that fucked up.

Careful. He might try to backseat mod you about it, or start policing conversations again.

And you had no problem going off topic with a joke.

I like my convenience, I don't think they're going anywhere. The games being on PC doesn't make them irrelevant, that's just an enthusiast club propaganda, half of Steam userbase can't even run console exclusives until 3-5 years when they get more suitable hardware.

Spoiler

Been hearing this death of console shit since the late 2000s. Not everyone is going to get a Bugatti to go to Costco

Ultimate truth.

 

[moonbits]

You gotta think outside the box, of course us being the ultimate enthusiast club turbo retro nerds that count the scanlines in our Lottes.gsl filter when playing obscure japanese arcade game, perhaps consoles aren't suited for us but there's a huge, HUGE market, a casual market and that's what they aim at.

I can understand, even agree to the points being made here. PC is the ultimate platform for enthusiast gaming but making it the only place to play games is a absolutely bonkers.

 

[bjork]

Nope. Just spitting facts and truth. Those in charge are the ones that fucked up.

Oh. You're one of those. Nevermind!

 

[BrawlMan]

You gotta think outside the box, of course us being the ultimate enthusiast club turbo retro nerds that count the scanlines in our Lottes.gsl filter when playing obscure japanese arcade game, perhaps consoles aren't suited for us but there's a huge, HUGE market, a casual market and that's what they aim at.

I can understand, even agree to the points being made here. PC is the ultimate platform for enthusiast gaming but making it the only place to play games is a absolutely bonkers.

Yes. Somebody else finally gets it, and are not sniffing farts about it.

Oh. You're one of those. Nevermind!

Damn straight.

 

[Ikagura]

Another point is that most indies tend to make way too much homages with added stuff but are still way too much like fan-games than stand alone games overall .

That is my perspective on indies but i could be wrong on that point.

And why should it affect the intrinsic value of those indie games as long as they're good?

Especially if the actual series they're based on no longer have games (nor quality releases).

You can't just make a game like "Final Fantasy 98 + Mario Rpg with a little bit of Earthbound for spice" and indie game genuinely has to bring something unique to the table to really standout (most often it's their art style or soundtrack, something corporate wouldn't take a risk on for a larger budget product).

Not every indies are copies either and sometimes people want the same experience as the older games.

If there's any game I can think of (despite not being really "indie") that's just AWASH in homage, it's Sonic Mania. It's great that it got made, and it's really well done (better than Sonic CD, and especially Sonic 4) but it really is just Sonic 3 again, y'know?

Better than CD is debatable because CD is one of the most popular classic games.

Then again Sonic 3&K is Sonic 2 with expanded levels which itself is Sonic 1 with new features and better level design.

You can talk about Freedom Planet which doesn't merely copy Sonic (since the game has dedicated attack buttons, three characters with specific ability that set them appart more than Tails and Knuckles as well as good challenging bosses) as well as the Spark the Electric Jester series that also has some emphasis on battles.

 

[iamthemilkman]

This generation has been pretty awful. That's why I'm fine with it lasting until 2030. Why start a new generation when it feels like this one hasn't even started? Additionally, with games taking so long to make and costing so much money, why should we make that even worse? It's just stupid. We used to get 3 Mass Effect games, 3 Uncharted games and TLOU, 3 Bioshock games, 3 Resistance games, 4 Halo games, and on and on, in a single generation. Now we're lucky to get one.

 

[moonbits]

This generation has been pretty awful. That's why I'm fine with it lasting until 2030. Why start a new generation when it feels like this one hasn't even started? Additionally, with games taking so long to make and costing so much money, why should we make that even worse? It's just stupid. We used to get 3 Mass Effect games, 3 Uncharted games and TLOU, 3 Bioshock games, 3 Resistance games, 4 Halo games, and on and on, in a single generation. Now we're lucky to get one.

Don't romanticise those eras, those people died making those games. Crunched to death and tears because of insane publisher demands. We don't do it anymore because it was insanity.

It's now people like you and me making games, not baby boomers with insane working environments. Nobody wants to die for this shit, no matter the passion.

 

[PhaseJump]

Don't romanticise those eras, those people died making those games. Crunched to death and tears because of insane publisher demands. We don't do it anymore because it was insanity.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

And why should it affect the intrinsic value of those indie games as long as they're good?

Especially if the actual series they're based on no longer have games (nor quality releases).

Because why should we , for example , have 20 different flavours of earthbound-, Contra- , Doom- and Streets of Rage- clones that stays at the ground concept of those said games , that dont really add anything meaningful to elevate the game further than just ( insert old classic IP ) - at home with few simple mechanics added in ?

Its not about if these games were fun or good ( even those movie-games , walking-sims and openworld-wastelands can be fun and good too ) but what variety they could finally offer except the homage route .
Many cancled games with concepts are lying there in videogame-archives ( Unseen64 for example ) and waiting to take inspiration and make own games out of it . If indie-games should be the future of gaming then it needs to dare more .

Homages have their place and its still possible to make an homage into something more .

But it would be great to see some real Dare-devils of the gaming industry that doesnt fear concepts that goes far beyond the basics and deliver games that goes for something that push the gameplay more .

The Amiga , the Ps1 , the Snes brought alot of those games that pushed the gameplay to its extremes , with approaches that nobody thought to tried themselves and evolve it into something different .

We had alot of Dungeoncrawlers on the Amiga till Hired Guns was released . Even with its flaws , the concept of an mission based cyberpunk Dungeon-crawler was still genius and unheard of . Maybe even an inspiration to Rainbow six overall with its similarities .

The first Jurassic Park game on the Snes was very flawed but it had something going for with its own overall concept that could be made into a great games .

The huge library of Psygnosis-games that were way ahead of its time and still suprises people what gaming can offer is still an statement that cant be ignored .

And those examples alone were from small dev-teams and those could be seen as indie-games too or atleast high enough as double AA games .

More variety of game-designs and genre approaches is what i wanna tell . And indie is more capable than that .

 

[BrawlMan]

Contra

• Blazing Chrome
• Neon Inferno
• Terminator 2D: Fate
• Super Cyborg

All of them and more do something different from Contra that works for them.

Doom

There are a lot of those, yet most of them are doing well or great with their target audience and beyond. So not much doom and gloom there.

Streets of Rage- clones

• The TakeOver
• Final Vendetta
• Fight n' Rage
• TMNT: Shredder's Revenge
• Rushing Beat X
• Dancin Divas
• Double Dragon Gaiden
• Double Dragon Revive
• Ninja Saviors
• Final Knight

Nearly all of these games I listed play completely differently from Streets of Rage, or only take one or two aspects from Streets of Rage 3, and do their own thing (The TakeOver, Final Vendetta, and Fight n' Rage). I know RBX ain't out yet, and the franchise itself was copying both SOR and Final Fight back in the 90s, but this game plays nothing like SOR4, nor the other games in the Streets of Rage franchise. Play the demo on Steam. Dancin Divas is basically Ninja Baseball Batman visually, but more Tex Avery style, and plays only somewhat similarly to NBB.


Remember what we talked about? Not as bad, nor as big as a problem as you think the indie circle. Drop the cynicism and pessimism.

This generation has been pretty awful.

This generation could've have been better, yet I got plenty of the games I wanted and more. I can't speak for everyone and their own expectations nor feelings, but I don't regret the time I have or had with these games. Especially on the indie side.

Now we're lucky to get one.

Well, the AAA(A) should really learn to tone it down on the budgets and diminishing returns. So far, Capcom and Nintendo gets this right on consistent basis and learn not everything needs a $100+ million budget. And Capcom had to relearn that lesson after 7th generation and part way into 8th generation. They, Nintendo, Sega, and a few others actually bother to make smaller budget games now or again.

 

[dkpopman]

I feel like the normie position, which is the majority, is that exclusives aren't a selling point. Most console sales are made for and by people who aren't interested in PC gaming. Feel like this simple fact gets ignored a lot in discussions of console sales.

At this point, most people bought a PS4, so they're gonna get a PS5 when they learn that their library is forward compatible. And most parents are gonna buy their kids nintendo, because thats what we've decided is the kids console, culturally speaking. Sony will stay relevant just because of that, I believe. Nintendo could do literally anything and be okay at this point.

Xbox however... they're not getting the casuals or the hardcores anymore. They might be dead already, honestly.