Sonic Megathread

[Miles Miles]

I was a kid, so things are fuzzy but I remember magazine ads and posters at toys r us and shit about Sonic CD being the crazy "lost" sonic game few have ever experienced, I also distinctly remember some advertising calling it a "masterpiece".

I don't disagree.

Sonic CD isn't even that lost of a game. It sold 1.5 million copies. I personally think it's the worst classic Sonic game, but that doesn't mean I think it's bad. It's just the worst of an amazing bunch. The JP OST is certainly a masterpiece though!

 

[waterxwraith]

Sonic CD isn't even that lost of a game. It sold 1.5 million copies. I personally think it's the worst classic Sonic game, but that doesn't mean I think it's bad. It's just the worst of an amazing bunch. The JP OST is certainly a masterpiece though!

I don't think Sonic CD is the worst, I put it above 1 and 2 and on par with 3&K.

 

[Miles Miles]

I don't think Sonic CD is the worst, I put it above 1 and 2 and on par with 3&K.

1, 2 and 3K are all way better than CD.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

Gotta agree.

IMO Sonic CD is fine but it's not better than 2 or 3. I can maybe see the argument that it's better than 1 based on the level design and visuals alone, but even then, Sonic CD almost feels like an unrelated game due to the different design direction the team took compared with Sonic 2.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

about Sonic CD being the crazy "lost" sonic game few have ever experienced

When I was younger I've played a bit of it (on emulator I think) and saw videos yet somehow I didn't know the title for at least a decade and a half.

1, 2 and 3K are all way better than CD.

I gotta disagree about Sonic 1.


Yes, Green Hills and Starlight are great zones but overall the level design of CD is above. No bottomless pits (outside of Metallic Madness), no spike bug and having 4 variations of each levels is a better thing (especially when Tidal Tempest and Metallic Madness are better than Labyrinth and Scrap Brain). Marble and Labyrinth were tediously slow whereas Sonic CD has a more open level design.

The only things Sonic 1 did better were probably the bosses (CD's were more like puzzles than proper fights).

Sonic 2 and 3&K are obviously better.

On a side note: Sonic 2 is probably seen as the best of the "pentalogy" simply because of how improved it was whereas Sonic 3, while also being great, didn't bring anything big to the table like the Spin Dash or the Two Acts level structure. I still think that the zones of standalone 3 are still long enough to compensate for the halved amount of levels.

 

[waterxwraith]

1, 2 and 3K are all way better than CD.

Sonic 1 being better than CD is crazy, thats not a take I could agree with on my worst day.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

On a side note: Sonic 2 is probably seen as the best of the "pentalogy" simply because of how improved it was whereas Sonic 3, while also being great, didn't bring anything big to the table like the Spin Dash or the Two Acts level structure. I still think that the zones of standalone 3 are still long enough to compensate for the halved amount of levels.

Overall I do think Sonic 2 is the best game in the original series. It has some of the best music and visual design, it was a huge upgrade over Sonic 1, and by Sonic 3 I just felt like the levels had got too big and full of stuff. It was like an iteration of 2, rather than a huge upgrade like we had the first time around.

That said, while I prefere the visuals and music of 2, I have to acknowldge that there is some beautiful work in both the audio and video department of 3&K.

I know which game I'm going to keep going back to, but I also know that it's because it was the first one I played and loved as a kid.

 

[Guinea]

I love sonk he fast and cool.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

I love sonk he fast and cool.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

and by Sonic 3 I just felt like the levels had got too big and full of stuff.

It's a bit weird to use that as a negative thing but I could understand that some levels are dragging a bit too long (especially Carnival Night 2 and perhaps Sandopolis 2 in & Knuckles).

On the other hand I'd also argue that Metropolis is also suffering from that issue.

Sonic 2 is great in its first half but I always felt like the general quality drastically fell down once you've reached Mystic Cave. It's explained by the fact that Sonic 2 was rushed and they probably didn't finish nor refine the late game.

I still love Emerald Hills to Hill Top.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:26 AM

On a side note I find Sonic 2's development to the most fascinating (next to the first Adventure game) simply because of how of a bigger scope it had:

Spoiler

Time travelling was planned for this entry but ultimately it was CD who had it. Still wish we got to see Wood Zone, Dust Hill and Cyber City.


Sega not hiring Whitehead to make a "definitive edition" for Sonic 2 (beyond Hidden Palace Zone in the mobile/Origins remaster) is a massive shame. Romhacks don't feel official enough imo.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

It's a bit weird to use that as a negative thing but I could understand that some levels are dragging a bit too long (especially Carnival Night 2 and perhaps Sandopolis 2 in & Knuckles).

On the other hand I'd also argue that Metropolis is also suffering from that issue.

Sonic 2 is great in its first half but I always felt like the general quality drastically fell down once you've reached Mystic Cave. It's explained by the fact that Sonic 2 was rushed and they probably didn't finish nor refine the late game.

I still love Emerald Hills to Hill Top.

I think it's a personal preference thing. I get enjoying that there's loads to do and see now, but for me when the design got to visually busy and crowded, it made the levels harder to really get into. It's sort of what makes the second half of 2 lower quality in many ways. The levels are visually busy and sort of crammed with "stuff" in every corner just to fill space, and that's why they go downhill IMO.

Mystic Cave gets a pass because of the music, but I agree that the quality has some problems post-caves. That said, I still sort of stand by Oil Ocean as a fun zone with a good theme and visual design.

That infinite death pit in Mystic Cave can go do one though. Honestly, the best version is the version where Christian Whitehead turned that into an entrance into Hidden Palace.

Stunning excecution. Turning one of the biggest "fuck yous" in the game into a previously cut zone was genius.

 

[waterxwraith]

I think it's a personal preference thing. I get enjoying that there's loads to do and see now, but for me when the design got to visually busy and crowded, it made the levels harder to really get into. It's sort of what makes the second half of 2 lower quality in many ways. The levels are visually busy and sort of crammed with "stuff" in every corner just to fill space, and that's why they go downhill IMO.

Mystic Cave gets a pass because of the music, but I agree that the quality has some problems post-caves. That said, I still sort of stand by Oil Ocean as a fun zone with a good theme and visual design.

That infinite death pit in Mystic Cave can go do one though. Honestly, the best version is the version where Christian Whitehead turned that into an entrance into Hidden Palace.

Stunning excecution. Turning one of the biggest "fuck yous" in the game into a previously cut zone was genius.

Happy for him where he's at, but I do wish Christian Whitehead got to direct future 2D Sonic games.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I think it's a personal preference thing. I get enjoying that there's loads to do and see now, but for me when the design got to visually busy and crowded, it made the levels harder to really get into. It's sort of what makes the second half of 2 lower quality in many ways. The levels are visually busy and sort of crammed with "stuff" in every corner just to fill space, and that's why they go downhill IMO.

I think it was a way to make the game engaging when 3D was coming. Even Yoshi's Island had to offer a lot of things to make it stands out.

I'd also say that Mario Bros 3, being a late NES game, also had to justify staying on the ageing 8-bits.

Sonic 3&K still manages to offer a big adventure in 2D, something even modern Sonic games struggle to properly do.

Mystic Cave gets a pass because of the music, but I agree that the quality has some problems post-caves. That said, I still sort of stand by Oil Ocean as a fun zone with a good theme and visual design.

Oil Ocean was fine but below some of the levels from the first third imo. Mania vastly improved it.

That infinite death pit in Mystic Cave can go do one though. Honestly, the best version is the version where Christian Whitehead turned that into an entrance into Hidden Palace. Stunning execution. Turning one of the biggest "fuck yous" in the game into a previously cut zone was genius.

I could give the remake that but it doesn't fully excuse the pit though.

Happy for him where he's at, but I do wish Christian Whitehead got to direct future 2D Sonic games.

I'd even dare saying to direct the future of Sonic as a whole since Evening Star had made their debut game a 3D platformer.

Iizuka should step down from being a game director or at least only being a consultant. I'd also hope the next game won't make empty and boring looking Open Zones or overly rely on nostalgia with making yet another level with Generations' assets. Finally no need to have alternative gameplay styles, just making boost levels should suffice.

 

[Guinea]

Oh HELL NAW!!!

 

[Miles Miles]

Sonic 1 being better than CD is crazy, thats not a take I could agree with on my worst day.

It's not crazy. Sonic 1 is a great game! Sonic 2 and 3K are certainly way better than 1 though - they're the greatest platformers ever made!

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Sonic 1 is a great game!

I think it's a bit of a hyperbole to say "great". I think that Sonic 1 is the entry that has aged the less well.

 

[Miles Miles]

I think it's a bit of a hyperbole to say "great". I think that Sonic 1 is the entry that has aged the less well.

Just because it's not as great as its sequels, it doesn't make it not great, just less great than the sequels.