Saturn Saturn appreciation thread

[Ikagura]

I wish Sonic The Fighters had a Sega Saturn Port.

That would've been complicated technically because of the models and distortions.


However seeing how the Dreamcast had little to no Sega Model 2 games is making me sad.

 

[bcdusk]

en complicated technically

Nope, it used the game engine of a game that already had a Saturn port.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Sega couldn't afford it anyway. It was going broke and sitting on unsold product it needed to abandon and liquidate at the time.

That didn’t stop them from dumping $40 million they didn’t have into the creation of Shenmue…

But you are right that the timelines matchup. In 97, they had just recently fired Tom Kalinske from SOA after he had failed to restructure the company per SOJ’s orders. They had asked for that since they had only consolidated accounting in 95, which let everyone know how much the American and European branches had lost the company money thanks to poor business decisions and issues with retailers demanding massive amounts of product on hand. In short, for the company as a whole, money was on the mind.

Still, keeping it purely to Sonic and the Saturn, Sonic R was a brand new game project started, produced, and shipped worldwide by the end of 97. And there was a gap in time where the console team at AM2 wasn’t working on a project, just before their work on Fighters Megamix. Sonic The Fighters could very much have slotted in there. So, I come back to the idea that the only reason it didn’t happen was due to the financial failure of the arcade game, and perhaps negative feedback from arcades themselves about the project. They would have truly not believed in the project for it to never have been considered at all.

Post automatically merged: Feb 20, 2026

That would've been complicated technically because of the models and distortions.


However seeing how the Dreamcast had little to no Sega Model 2 games is making me sad.

Possibly, that’s the thing id be most worried about, but we see model morphing in Team Andromeda games around the same time. We also have some of the stretchy movements, albeit HEAVILY DIALED BACK, in Fighters Megamix.

I have no doubt it would have been hard, but I can imagine them finding a solution. That’s the core of Saturn development, after all: finding solutions to seemingly impassable roadblocks.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Saturn is coooool!

 

[bcdusk]

Sega of America fuck ups were amazing, in comparison Sega of Europe didn't do as badly. The Saturn had decent sales in some European countries, they negotiated for a Sonic cartoon to be made in France and Sonic The Comic and Sonic itself was going strong in the UK.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Sega of America fuck ups were amazing, in comparison Sega of Europe didn't do as badly. The Saturn had decent sales in some European countries, they negotiated for a Sonic cartoon to be made in France and Sonic The Comic and Sonic itself was going strong in the UK.

More importantly than Sonic though, the European Saturn magazine was an absolute treasure of getting the word out about many of these awesome games.

And SOE fought HARD to get some surprising releases for the European Saturn owners. There’s a good number of big name Saturn games that got either more accessible versions in Europe (like Dragonforce, Shining Wisdom, and Shining Force 3) or releases that skipped the U.S. market entirely (like Keio Flying Squadron 2, Dragon Ball Z: The Legend, or Deep Fear).

In general, though they never were going to come close to beating Sony, SOE used the resources they had to their name effectively.

Sales figures show us public perception of the time, but that public is always very skewable. Sony had the means, and did EVERYTHING RIGHT in Europe. SEGA never stood a shot, but credit must be given to SOE for putting their best foot forward anyway. It’s not like they produced much, if any software domestically. They could only distribute what was already being made and attempt to entice other domestic devs to the platform. I feel, personally, that thy did a good job with the bad hand they had, and that PAL regions are some of the best places to domestically own a Saturn thanks to the more available domestic copies of software releases (though, of course, still far from safe from heavy markups in the modern secondhand market).

 

[stealthRUSH stealthRUSH]

 

[Badseed Badseed]

Panzer Dragoon II Zwei: Remake

Demo plays good, I mean how many other Saturn games
are being released now?

 

[PhaseJump]

Panzer Dragoon II Zwei: Remake

View attachment 158448

Demo plays good, I mean how many other Saturn games
are being released now?

They butchered it. It's getting destroyed by fan backlash.

 

[Ikagura]

Panzer Dragoon II Zwei: Remake

View attachment 158448

Demo plays good, I mean how many other Saturn games
are being released now?

Not that big on the remake, I'd only get HotD 2 and PDZ in sales but I can still emulate them at least.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Panzer Dragoon II Zwei: Remake

View attachment 158448

Demo plays good, I mean how many other Saturn games
are being released now

But, as Phase Jump has said, the direction is gone. It LOOKS bad. And the original already plays super tight.


With the game looking so poor, the vast majority of the market (people who never played Zwei during its relevance) may assume the worst of the game. And for a game in this dire of a state of obscurity, that damage is something that may never be undone from its reputation. We wanted more Panzer Dragoon, but we wanted it to be done with respect, which this project is not giving. I can’t claim malicious intent on the part of the remake team, but I can say that they have utterly failed to bring this Saturn classic forward in a way that is befitting of its original vision.

This is a Saturn appreciation thread. There is no appreciation within the Zwei Remake. Not a drop. It is the antithesis to what this thread stands for.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2026

I want to take this moment in the thread to give real appreciation to the original title.

Zwei is about as artistic and story driven as shooters tend to get, which is very ironic since it came from a team where the “story people” had been separated to go work on Saga. The bond between you, as Lundi, and the growing dragon you’ve befriended, Lagi, is a simple but powerful one with a strong ending (that I’ve sadly been spoiled on… pain…)

The game’s gameplay focus was on making Panzer Dragoon into more of a fleshed out shooter. There’s a super meter for unleashing “beserk” shots now. There’s a proper scoring system, with a combo multiplier that chains higher with the more targets you laser, but your single shot is always a x2 multiplier, so you start thinking about what to do in each situation to maximize your score. And the enemy formations are electric and far more fair than the original Panzer Dragoon could ever dream of. In Zwei, if I get hit, it’s my fault. In the original, that wasn’t always a guarantee. And, of course the multiple paths are well hidden and drive a great bit of the game’s replayability and presentation. It’s not like the unflinching monolith of this genre, Star Fox 64, in terms of how expansive it is, but it instead feels more tightly designed. Which is a massive compliment, since Star Fox 64 is one of the most tightly designed N64 titles in my view, and one of my favorites of that console. Zwei is just that much more polished, and feels like a refined piece of art in comparison.

As well, much needs to be said for this game’s focus on scale. This was massive for Saturn, as the system was sinking ever deeper into a public perception quagmire of “can’t do 3D”. And while Virtua Cop, SEGA Rally, and Virtua Fighter 2 dispelled that notion, Zwei was the period at the end of the sentence “Saturn is GOOD at 3D.” Its worlds are massive, with clever use of system hardware to sell the illusions, and the game includes so much dynamic camera movement in combination with scaling and rotation from background sky and ground planes. It’s so much more visceral than the original, and the bosses are both large and move strong. The original game had large bosses, but without a ton of moving parts. Zwei’s bosses either go bigger (like the inside the ship level, which is essentially one giant boss battle through the thing) or more complex and dynamic (like the battle with the jungle beast). Also, the game expands further on the wartorn and desolate landscape design the first game established, adding more defined architecture and detail. It feels very cohesive.


I could glaze this game all day, but you get the point. This is an excellent game. It was back then, it is now, and it deserves to be remembered. And, it deserves a remake that respects it. Until that day comes, which it may never will, I encourage everyone to seek this game out and try it, on real hardware or emulation, and take the ride of your life. You won’t regret it.

 

[Badseed Badseed]

Said a mouth full:

well fair enough I guess, I have never played any until this demo, they never appealed to me . I wasnt't jazzed about their polys that looked like ass and I couldn't give a rat's ass about rail shooters besides the Ho.t.D in arcades. Slipheed on the sega CD seemed much better to me. Plus I was busy playing Shining, Vitura Fighter 2, XM vs SF, Powerslave, Sega rally, dark Force, etc. There was no time for medicocre games I had no intrest in. So while I respect your opinion that Panzer is the best thing since sliced bread and that you appreciate it. You please can show the same respect for me when I express the fact that I appreciate the fact that I will NEVER need to play them. I love Sega, Just not EVERYTHING!!! I'd rather make out with the weird Saturn ring lady on the old commercials.

 

[Ikagura]

They should've gone the REZ HD/Infinite route instead...

 

[PhaseJump]

Panzer Dragoon Zwei was the showpiece for the Sega Saturn.

The remake looks like a valid excuse to hand write a strongly worded letter and dump Sega Sammy stock.

 

[Ikagura]

Why aren't they hiring fans to create a "Panzer Dragoon Drei" (I don't know if Saga and Orta concluded the story of the franchise but this could be a prequel or interquel).

Or reboot the franchise with something like "Panzer Dragoon Ein".

 

[Badseed Badseed]

Panzer Dragoon Zwei was the showpiece for the Sega Saturn.

who told you that? I would counter that whatever particular game that a Saturn owner loved WAS the showcase for the system. but thats neither here nor there. Sorry all you fanatical fanboys, I just hoped riding a dragon would be a million times cooler, I guess I'll go play dragon strike on the NES

 

[PhaseJump]

who told you that? I would counter that whatever particular game that a Saturn owner loved WAS the showcase for the system. but thats neither here nor there. Sorry all you fanatical fanboys, I just hoped riding a dragon would be a million times cooler, I guess I'll go play dragon strike on the NES

View attachment 158794

Everybody?

It's presentation was ahead of everything else.

I am not even a fanboy of the series, and I know it's one of the flagship games on the console. Graphically a showpiece, praised by everybody who gives a shit and talks about the platform, making top 5 or top 10 lists. I could tell by playing it that it was better than the first game.

You're the outlier here.

The only 3D stuff on Saturn that looked better was recent scene stuff from XL2 over at SX, who put out Hellslave.

 

[Ikagura]

Panzer Dragoon Zwei was the showpiece for the Sega Saturn.

I've always supposed that Nights into Dreams and Virtua Fighters were the games made to showcase the console's 3D capabilities at launch.

However Panzer Dragoon (the first) was the one game people talked more about when it came to 3D for the console.

I do like Burning Rangers and Radiant Silvergun as late life games that sadly couldn't convince people when the Dreamcast was waiting in the corner.

 

[ThunderBoy]

 

[Ikagura]

I need to redo this game someday

 

[Leon]

I loved the sega saturn, sadly alot of the best games on the console never came westward, especially the rpg's (my favorite genre).
Controller wise i consider it near perfect, add a couple of analogs and a select button, along with 2 analog triggers and i consider that the perfect controller, 6 button layout ftw.

 

[bcdusk]

The Saturn been getting a lot of love in recent years, several translations, hacks and homebrew projects around for Saturn.

Ir will never be as popular as the Dreamcast when it comes to homebrew, but it is still getting lots of stuff.

GTA 2 should be perfectly possible to port to the Saturn. Sadlly there is not much interest in GTA 2.

Also Megaman 8 is another game that's better on the Saturn.

The Saturn was a 2D beast after all.

The most ambitious homebrew project I can think of that's possible would be porting Legend of Mana, but that would be a real pain. A compilation of older Mana games however? That should be easier.

Do we have a Gameboy emulator for the Saturn?

 

[PhaseJump]

The Saturn been getting a lot of love in recent years, several translations, hacks and homebrew projects around for Saturn.

More than 20 fan translations, hacks, new ports, multiple translations to other languages, multiple ODE options, a flash cart, netlink support, new tools, new emulators, Yaul, JoEngine, and recently the SRL.

Ir will never be as popular as the Dreamcast when it comes to homebrew, but it is still getting lots of stuff.

People have been coming and going in the scene for 25 years and it all overlaps.

GTA 2 should be perfectly possible to port to the Saturn. Sadlly there is not much interest in GTA 2.

Also Megaman 8 is another game that's better on the Saturn.

The Saturn was a 2D beast after all.

Perfectly possible to do a lot of things, results will vary. There are proof of concept demos shown off all the time.

The whole machine was capable. 2D and 3D. It just wasn't conventionally throwing math around on the co-processors in the same way as other hardware would standardize.

The most ambitious homebrew project I can think of that's possible would be porting Legend of Mana, but that would be a real pain. A compilation of older Mana games however? That should be easier.

You're not going to find easy ports of old Mana games for Saturn. Can't easily get Phantasy Star Collection even translated due to memory constraints, and needing to chop up the english rom for IV and it still breaks things.


I don't know if anybody cares about porting or emulating the old stuff on Saturn. I think Trekkies was working on a decompiled Final Fantasy 1 port at some point.

Do we have a Gameboy emulator for the Saturn?

Rockin b threw a port together 20 years ago, but it's not optimized or stable. If there is anything new, I haven't seen it.

The Rockin'-B : Game Boy Color

 

[Ikagura]

I've done the PSX version but I'm tempted to do the Saturn (which was the original iirc)

 

[DragonMals]

Do you have similar thoughts about this console?

While the Saturn hasn't been a console I grew up with, thorughout the times I was playing the Gradius Series (prior to Gradius Origins), I noticed that the Graidus Deluxe Pack, Salamaander Deluxe Pack Plus, and the Parodius one are all on Saturn. I looked at them, and they seemed to be alright! Minus the sounds being more muffled (and a little bit incorrect in terms of Arcade Accuracy), but they're still good ways to experience the original Arcade lineups of all the Gradius and the Gradius-like.

Outside of those, it also contains an arcade-accurate port of Cleopatra Fortune as well as Magical Drop II (I don't know why the PS1 doesn't have that but it has both Magical Drop I and III (heck, the PS1 has two versions of the former: One that's 90s looking and one that's more like the Arcade original)), and it does have some great games like Thunder Force V, and uhh... Can't think of anything else. Its quite funny that the Sega-released games on the Saturn have less interest to me than what other developers got for the system. I mean, I sometimes come back to Sonic Jam to experience the classics recreated on the Saturn to see the similarities and and differences, but eh

i wonder if mega man got any saturn games...?