Hot takes

[Spectro. Spectro.]

Super Mario Odyssey was a big letdown.

Super Mario Sunshine is one of the best mainline Mario games.

 

[waterxwraith]

Super Mario Odyssey was a big letdown.

Super Mario Sunshine is one of the best mainline Mario games.

I'll agree that odyssey is overhyped (still great)

but Sunshine?!

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2025

Oh, so the same issue that many "retro styled pixel art 2D indie game" had back when it was becoming trendy to do NES-like graphics?
View attachment 122692

I agree that we've seen a rise of low poly PSX-style horror game that don't really do much efforts.

Even games like Ultrakill improved the models with updates. I also liked how Zortch looked, like a late N64 title (if not early Dreamcast).

I've seen folks on tiktok refer to the style on the right as "millennial retro" which makes me laugh quite hard.

 

[bjork]

Super Mario Odyssey was a big letdown.

Super Mario Sunshine is one of the best mainline Mario games.

I think I agree? I got Odyssey right away, finished the story, and then never felt inclined to go back to it. The novelty of "Mario can be a dinosaur! Mario can be a weird rock guy" thing kinda wore off for me and really New Donk City is the most memorable thing for me.
I like Sunshine a lot. I kinda wish you just had unlimited water and I dislike the Yoshis in it, but other than that, hell yeah. I like the setting, the presentation, and the overall feel of Sunshine a lot.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

I never understood the hate that Mario Sunshine got either. It was absolutely gorgeous for its time.

I do remember that it was a bit challenging, so maybe it was that?

 

[bjork]

I never understood the hate that Mario Sunshine got either. It was absolutely gorgeous for its time.

I do remember that it was a bit challenging, so maybe it was that?

At least with Wind Waker, people were crying about it not being mature and you could go, "oh, you're acting like a spoiled kid, I get it." But with Mario, I never really understood because there never seemed to be a concrete reason.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Super Mario Odyssey was a big letdown.

Yeah maybe

Super Mario Sunshine is one of the best mainline Mario games.

Not better than 64, Galaxy, World nor Bros 3 though.

I never understood the hate that Mario Sunshine got either. It was absolutely gorgeous for its time.

I do remember that it was a bit challenging, so maybe it was that?

It looks gorgeous but graphics don't make the game.

It's challenging for the wrong reasons (mainly because of glitchy collisions and blue coins being borderline unfair).

At least with Wind Waker, people were crying about it not being mature and you could go, "oh, you're acting like a spoiled kid, I get it." But with Mario, I never really understood because there never seemed to be a concrete reason.

Maybe because it was the era of newer platformers and Sunshine kinda wasn't the Mario 128 people expected to see.

 

[bjork]

Maybe because it was the era of newer platformers and Sunshine kinda wasn't the Mario 128 people expected to see.

I wonder what it was that they were expecting? I know some of that tech demo later helped shape what would be Mario Galaxy, but I feel like people would not have been ready for Galaxy at the time of the GC.

 

[PhaseJump]

I never understood the hate that Mario Sunshine got either. It was absolutely gorgeous for its time.

I do remember that it was a bit challenging, so maybe it was that?

Unskippable cutscenes, a whole game built around similar levels or stages, needing to reload stages to grab multiple shines. It was tedious, not challenging.

There is a reason the game was considered a disappointment.

It's not even worth playing unless it's the Sunburn mod.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Unskippable cutscenes, a whole game built around similar levels or stages, needing to reload stages to grab multiple shines. It was tedious, not challenging.

There is a reason the game was considered a disappointment.

It's not even worth playing unless it's the Sunburn mod.

meh..

I played and 100%'ed it back when it was the new Mario game, and I enjoyed it at the time for what it was..

 

[MasterEn]

I never understood the hate that Mario Sunshine got either. It was absolutely gorgeous for its time.

I do remember that it was a bit challenging, so maybe it was that?

it was bright and colorful. it's the same reason that people hated wind waker. people hated bright colors in the early to mid 2000's.
there are some annoying parts to the game, but they are doable as long as you are patient.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

it was bright and colorful. it's the same reason that people hated wind waker. people hated bright colors in the early to mid 2000's.
there are some annoying parts to the game, but they are doable as long as you are patient.

Wind Waker was one of the earliest games to use cell-shading (along with Viewtiful Joe), which people found polarizing at the time. I thought it looked nice, what I didn't like was how downright easy Wind Waker was..

 

[Miles Miles]

Oh yeah, for that and racing games

Analog sticks are MUCH better for racing games because you have much better control of the vehicle.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I wonder what it was that they were expecting? I know some of that tech demo later helped shape what would be Mario Galaxy, but I feel like people would not have been ready for Galaxy at the time of the GC.

Also that Super Mario 128 looked a lot like Pikmin so it would've been probably too similar. And "Mario 64 2" was probably planned for the N64DD (like how UraZelda aka Master Quest was).

Unskippable cutscenes, a whole game built around similar levels or stages, needing to reload stages to grab multiple shines. It was tedious, not challenging.

It's literally the same thing for Mario 64 and Galaxy though. Cutscenes in Mario games aren't that long either. Mario 64 had the advantage of having relatively small levels and Galaxy had a more linear tracking for specific stars. Mario 64 had only text boxes but you had to mash the button as well but thankfully they were scarce.

I do agree that Mario 64 and Sunshine's re-releases should've tweaked it a bit (like the 100-coins and 8 red coins stars being the same type of non-exit stars).

Wind Waker was one of the earliest games to use cell-shading (along with Viewtiful Joe), which people found polarizing at the time. I thought it looked nice, what I didn't like was how downright easy Wind Waker was..

*ahem* Jet Set Radio *cough*

Zelda games were never that hard I'd argue, yes even if OoT and ALTTP were quite challenging some times the Zelda franchise has only ever been challenging on the NES. WW and TP were easier because of the more refined controls for the players, giving him more options (like attacking while moving among other things).

Only BotW in the first few hours went back to being hard.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

*ahem* Jet Set Radio *cough*

Zelda games were never that hard I'd argue, yes even if OoT and ALTTP were quite challenging some times the Zelda franchise has only ever been challenging on the NES. WW and TP were easier because of the more refined controls for the players, giving him more options (like attacking while moving among other things).

Only BotW in the first few hours went back to being hard.

Oh yeah, I totally forget about Jet Set Radio! I think it's because I was reaching for 20+ year old Gamecube-specific memories, at the moment..

But I'm not even talking about it needing to be old-school "Nintendo-hard," but don't hold my hand.. The difference with ALttP & OoT is that there was at least the chance of actually getting lost in their dungeons. Wind Waker's dungeons, on the other hand, were as linear as they get, and it broke the immersion for me..
This was amplified, for me anyways, because I had to skip OoT (no N64), but preordered Wind Waker in order to get OoT: Master Quest with it. Imagine going from A Link to the Past, to Wind Waker, and then Ocarina of Time & Master Quest... "One of these things is not like the others!"
Here's an old "hot take." I dumped on OoT when it originally came out, because about 90% of the new, 3D adaptations of older IPs, at the time, were basically insta-aged garbage. But wow... I have never been so pleasantly WRONG in my entire life! OoT is/was one of the few games that I liked more & more every single time I played it! That is, until a burglary happened....

 

[ozzagrl]

I think fallout 4 was not bad, personally I liked it better than NV!

 

[moonbits]

I think fallout 4 was not bad, personally I liked it better than NV!

 

[FillerBunnyNinjashark]

Ocarina of time was the beginning of the downfall of Zelda. When I finally played it on 3ds I found the game incredibly easy and boring. When I beat it all I could remember was "that's it?"...

Zelda was better as a 2d series.

Square soft(Enix) has sucked since the PS2

 

[bjork]

I think fallout 4 was not bad, personally I liked it better than NV!

Where would you rank fallout 76

 

[MajesticSiN]

I think Fallout 76 is enjoyable and I had fun with the hundred hours or so that I played.

 

[Ephemera1_]

I was recently watching a video from Yovideogames about the top 10 Playstation one games. I was taken aback by the stance Maximilian Dood had on the old Ps1 platformers essentially being worse than what the Nintendo 64 had to offer.

Which brings me to my "Hot Take" (im not sure it is one) I genuinely feel that barring Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64, the other platformers on the system are OK-forgettable. In fact i would go as far as to say sony had the better platformers in both the 5th and especially the 6th generation, as the gamecube had the weakest line up of exclusive platformers for any nintendo console not named the virtual boy

 

[Adrastia]

I was gonna make a thread about this. But I wasn't sure because I think it would just lead to arguing too much. Might not be a hot take. Depends on your thoughts.

I've noticed in some communities that there's a growing number of people who insist that women don't play "real" games. They like Candy Crush/mobile slop, Animal Crossing, The Sims ect... and that "real" games should be made for men. Not women. Whatever that means. I take this to mean they all need big booba sexy momma type characters. As long as she's not the MC (unless there are a lot of cleavage and panty shots). She can't use big weapons like swords or guns because "That's unrealistic". Even in games with magic and dragons and aliens. Apparently a woman wielding a comically huge sword, wearing heavy armor or using an enormous firearm is not realistic because she couldn't be able to lift it.

Despite some of the issues with AssCreed Shadows I noticed a lot of people didn't like that there was a female ninja. As if kunoichi haven't been a popular type of character in games and anime for decades. Same with Ghost of Yotei. Like we haven't seen that type of female character before. I haven't played either game. I don't have the hardware anyway. But all this character driven misogyny seems like a sad hill to die on. What's wrong with these guys? Some of the female characters they say are ugly aren't even ugly. Legions of bald space marine jacked jock stereotypes with so-so faces=fine. Woman that doesn't look like a triple filtered super model=Affront to all that is Holy! Burn the witch!

I'm sorry. Default male Shepherd is not even remotely attractive to me. I think he has a goofy face. But I'm not gonna fry a whole game because I don't like what the main guy looks like. I'm not that shallow.

I don't think these guys know what games women actually like which would be whatever games they enjoy playing. Whether that be The Sims or Big Boobie Action Game #458.

 

[PhaseJump]

I was recently watching a video from Yovideogames about the top 10 Playstation one games. I was taken aback by the stance Maximilian Dood had on the old Ps1 platformers essentially being worse than what the Nintendo 64 had to offer.

Which brings me to my "Hot Take" (im not sure it is one) I genuinely feel that barring Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64, the other platformers on the system are OK-forgettable. In fact i would go as far as to say sony had the better platformers in both the 5th and especially the 6th generation, as the gamecube had the weakest line up of exclusive platformers for any nintendo console not named the virtual boy

His take was right though. PS1 had Crash & Spyro, and a bunch of mid tier or OK stuff.

N64 had 3D platformers locked down. Rayman 2 was better, Mario, Banjo 1 and 2 games, Conker, Donkey Kong 64, Bomberman Hero, Rocket Robot on Wheels.

2D stuff is a different argument. Mischief Makers and Yoshi Story, lose ground to Tomba or Klonoa.

Both were good at 3D platformers you could throw in front of kids to keep them happy. Nintendo still stood above anybody in that arena though. Playstation beat them at almost everything else.

 

[ozzagrl]

Where would you rank fallout 76

i didn't particularly like it as much as F4 but i think its better than F3

 

[Ephemera1_]

2D stuff is a different argument. Mischief Makers and Yoshi Story, lose ground to Tomba or Klonoa.

When i made my statement previously i looked at both consoles as a whole and didn't separate 2D and 3D so perhaps that's why i feel the way i do.

N64 had 3D platformers locked down. Rayman 2 was better, Mario, Banjo 1 and 2 games, Conker, Donkey Kong 64, Bomberman Hero, Rocket Robot on Wheels.

To start out i would like to say I love Bomberman Hero AND Banjo Kazooie, and before i retort I would like to mention that I have not played any version of Rayman 2, and i only learned about Rocket Robot on wheels a few months ago. But with that being said for me personally the battle of the 3D Platformers is alot closer than it is for others.

I guess im adding more hot takes TO this hot take but while Banjo Kazooie is a fantastic game(the best platformer on the system and just may be the best of its generation), i dont like Banjo Tooie nearly as much as the original. Its an incredibly ambitious game and ill give it credit for trying to achieve something so grand on the N64s hardware, but it suffers from pacing issues because of it. Its not as focused as the first and there are areas (like the dinosaur level) where a large section of the level is essentially just nothing. When you reach the nest you're rewarded with like 2 jiggys. I feel a similar way about DK64, and while I do enjoy that game more than Banjo Tooie i still think its a bit of a mess to play.

Mario 64 is one of, if not then it is THE most important game of the modern era. A game that commands respect and its still fun to play nearly 30 years after it's release. However (and i am aware im in the minority on this) while i would consider the first half of the game (The main hall first Bowser fight and the downstairs levels) good enough to rival any platformer before or after it, the second half of the game (the upstairs paintings/stages) is just....alright? Its fine? I think its a step down from everything previous, with a few exceptions. It can be quite annoying at times but i truly do love tick tock clock as a stage and in concept.

I am not a fan of Rainbow Ride or Wet Dry World. Tall Tall Mountain is just alright i suppose, same with Tiny Huge Island.

For Conker, honestly I don't have much to say, its very charming, funny at times, and just overall a good game. Ive never been as attached to conker as i am the games I've mentioned previously though.

I feel as if the N64s platformer library is a bit top heavy, and to be fair to the N64, so is PS1s.......hell if we separate things by their dimensions then PS1 is probably even more top heavy. Ill agree that games like Croc and Medieval were just "fine", and ill even give you the first crash game because i dont feel like its aged well as the sequels. But Crash 2,3 the Spyro Games, and Ape Escape is a very strong line up imo. Especially Ape Escape which i would consider one of my favorite games OAT

As i mentioned earlier i looked at the catalog in totality not separating the 2D and 3D games so when i say the ps1 had better platformers, im including megaman X4, klonoa, tomba, strider 2, and perhaps that is doing some heavy lifting, but i also enjoy what i would call the platformer B-sides on PS1 more than i do the ones on N64.Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time, Blasto, jumping flash 2, 40 winks. ALL GREAT GAMES.

Rayman 2 and Rocker robot are probably in the category for the n64 and while i unfortunately cannot speak on either game, games like tonic trouble, the second chameleon twist game, Taz express, and Kirby 64 just don't move me as much as the B-sides of the ps1.

Playstation beat them at almost everything else.

For the most part, yeah. First person shooters are the only category where i feel like n64 won outright. Perhaps one could day that with the n64s controller that wouldn't be the case but with modern emulation and better controllers that problem is pretty much fixed. Perfect Dark and Turok 2 manhandle alot of the efforts on the ps1 by themselves

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Ocarina of time was the beginning of the downfall of Zelda. When I finally played it on 3ds I found the game incredibly easy and boring. When I beat it all I could remember was "that's it?"...

The 3DS version isn't representative of the revolution that the game was back then.

In fact I would go as far as to say Sony had the better platformers in both the 5th and especially the 6th generation.

Sorry but Mario 64 easily surpasses most of the platformers from the decade.

2D stuff is a different argument. Mischief Makers and Yoshi Story, lose ground to Tomba or Klonoa.

Sorry but Mischief Makers and Klonoa aren't really the same type of game, even if they feature platforming MM is much more of an action game.

Both were good at 3D platformers you could throw in front of kids to keep them happy. Nintendo still stood above anybody in that arena though. Playstation beat them at almost everything else.

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark easily stomps over anything on the PSX since it has a joystick and proper ways to aim.