Hot takes

[Ikagura Ikagura]

The sonic fanbase isn't that bad, and the content it creates is generally very enjoyable. I will not elaborate.

I still blame OCs like ColdSteel and shameless recolors like Sonichu to give the fans a bad light.

Yes I know, kids have always been cringe, it has never been a generational thing but the access to the internet has increased the visibility whereas previous eras only had those in smaller circles.

Almost all problems with modern sonic at least partially stem from an over-correction from 06.

People find Sonic's friends annoying? Erase pretty much the entire supporting cast

06 is an unfinished mess? Ditch the Adventure formula that was the foundation of 3 amazing games and never use it again

The story is strange and confusing? Dumb down the plots and pretend the last 10 years of world-building didn't exist

06 doesn't control well? Reduce the series into a simple, stripped down series of hallways with almost nothing in the way of platforming

2010's SEGA essentially obeyed all the complaints from people who didn't enjoy the series to begin with, and we ended up with 15 years of Sonic games with zero style or substance

Doing a 180° for a franchise instead of fixing mistakes was not the best idea to get.

However: I'd still say that Sonic is fine with only one playable character with a solid formula, not delving too far in many (Sonic Unleashed and Forces with the alternative gameplay styles made people who wanted fast action with Sonic annoyed yet those weren't adventure styled games).

Yes, some characters were in fact "shitty friends" since they weren't that useful even in the story (Classic being shoehorned in Forces was already an issue because in the story he was mostly doing his stuff in his side until the very end of the game) and I don't think we needed fishing to make a game enticing.

The Adventure formula already showed signs of fatigue and monotony around Heroes (despite having the same gameplay for all 4 teams and a more classic way of progressing in the game) and Shadow didn't go well.

The Boost formula enhanced the feeling of speed the franchise was known for. Almost like a racing game.

Also for the story I'm sorry but this should always be an afterthought: Mario games are relatively simple in their narrative yet were enticing the player. Most would play RPGs if they wanted a deeper story.

 

[Burzuru]

deli cooked rotisserie chickens

 

[God-Shattering Twink]

I still blame OCs like ColdSteel and shameless recolors like Sonichu to give the fans a bad light.

Yes I know, kids have always been cringe, it has never been a generational thing but the access to the internet has increased the visibility whereas previous eras only had those in smaller circles.


Doing a 180° for a franchise instead of fixing mistakes was not the best idea to get.

However: I'd still say that Sonic is fine with only one playable character with a solid formula, not delving too far in many (Sonic Unleashed and Forces with the alternative gameplay styles made people who wanted fast action with Sonic annoyed yet those weren't adventure styled games).

Yes, some characters were in fact "shitty friends" since they weren't that useful even in the story (Classic being shoehorned in Forces was already an issue because in the story he was mostly doing his stuff in his side until the very end of the game) and I don't think we needed fishing to make a game enticing.

The Adventure formula already showed signs of fatigue and monotony around Heroes (despite having the same gameplay for all 4 teams and a more classic way of progressing in the game) and Shadow didn't go well.

The Boost formula enhanced the feeling of speed the franchise was known for. Almost like a racing game.

Also for the story I'm sorry but this should always be an afterthought: Mario games are relatively simple in their narrative yet were enticing the player. Most would play RPGs if they wanted a deeper story.

I can agree that a more focused approach on one playstyle is probably the way to go, but the Boost formula was an incredibly mediocre solution. The Boost quadrilogy are some of the most boring, uninteresting platformers I've ever played, and doesn't really translate any of the appeal of the previous entries to me. Adventure was a huge shake up at the time, but I feel like it shares a lot of the appeal of the Classic games and translates it quite well into 3D. I can't say the same for the Boost games, for either gameplay style. The Boost games feel like a different franchise entirely, and not a particularly fun one.

I'd also argue that the supporting cast, playable or not, is a huge part of Sonic's identity as a series. Without them, games like Colors and Unleashed feel incredibly sterile. I'm not saying that every game as to have a Big the Cat or Chaotix campaign; I just think that ignoring the large cast of characters the series as accrued over the years makes the worlds of these games feel empty and small.

As for story, I would agree for many similar series, but Sonic has a pretty strong precedent for having a consistent and connected world with lore and a wide cast of characters; most fans seem to agree that the long history and rich universe of Sonic is part of the appeal. Sonic games have been worldbuilding and storytelling since 3&K, and while I wouldn't call any Sonic narrative a masterpiece, games like Colors, Generations, and Lost World have incredibly boring scenarios paired with some really embarrassing writing (Forces gets points for trying, but that game's narrative is a joke). I'm glad that Frontiers and Shadow Gens are starting to undo the trend of previous entries by acknowledging past events and trying to repair the damage caused by stories written by people who don't even like Sonic. doesn't fix the gameplay though lol

 

[moonbits]

Sonic is actually good and the whole Internet hated it for no reason (specially during the 2010´s)

I will not let anyone try to pull a revisionist mental gymnastic when THIS piece of shit exists.

 

[thetwaz]

that is a bit unfair. game developers usually have a time limit on their games. they have to keep moving at a steady pace in order to have something to release and make some money so they can make more games. you need quite a bit of funds before you can take your time and be more through on polishing a game before release.
fan patches are made in someone's spare time and really don't have a time limit on them they are done when they are done. and i heard that some game engines charge companies money to make and release updates for their games. so there's that too. some games need patching but can't because of bullshit like that.

I would also add, fan patches and sourceports can be amazing, but are usually benefitting off the back of anywhere up to a decade's worth (sometimes even longer) of developers work on core gameplay compatibility and stability that developer patches usually focus on.

Developers have to focus on the boring stuff, and essentially keep their core product as per scope, depending on how they are funded for it by their publisher.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

View attachment 103397

I will not let anyone try to pull a revisionist mental gymnastic when THIS piece of shit exists.

Please avoid using the term "revisionist" for video games, that's for more serious subjects. Also there's no "revisionism mental gymnastic" about their message...

Furthermore one bad game doesn't retroactively makes every other good stuff null either. It's almost like beating a dead horse or pretending that the entire series is no longer worth playing just for that...

It'd be like saying that Bomberman has never been good because of Act:Zero or that Mario shouldn't matter because Mario is Missing is a thing... That would sound silly to tell that.

I would also add, fan patches and sourceports can be amazing, but are usually benefitting off the back of anywhere up to a decade's worth (sometimes even longer) of developers work on core gameplay compatibility and stability that developer patches usually focus on.

Speaking of Sourceport (for Doom I assume) I am legitimately annoyed when people are using GZDoom to showcase how "this can be done in Doom!" when things like Decorate and Zscript weren't even possible in the original engine nor Boom-related sourceports.

Room over room being impossible in Doom was for optimisation and how the map was being calculated. In MyHouse.wad it wasn't natively done within Doom itself but rather GZDoom with a .pk3.

Same with "it can run Doom" when said device is merely an output from a computer who's actually running Doom.

Developers have to focus on the boring stuff, and essentially keep their core product as per scope, depending on how they are funded for it by their publisher.

Yes, people forget that sometimes publishers say "no" to some ideas.

Many independent dev can get lost in adding too many features to their game.

 

[God-Shattering Twink]

View attachment 103397

I will not let anyone try to pull a revisionist mental gymnastic when THIS piece of shit exists.

I don't think anyone here has any intention of trying to claim this game was good, haha. You could make an argument that it could've been great, and there are some interesting ideas, but nothing's gonna change the fact that it was a sub-functional disaster. At the end of the day, it's just one bad entry in a long-running series. I suppose you could group it with Shadow 05, but calling the entire series bad because it produced a bad game or two is a little silly, especially when we're talking about it's perception in the 2010s.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I don't think anyone here has any intention of trying to claim this game was good, haha. You could make an argument that it could've been great, and there are some interesting ideas, but nothing's gonna change the fact that it was a sub-functional disaster.

Sonic P-06 is at least decent for most people around. In fact this is the only way people should experience it (unless they really, really want to have the "authentic" feeling but I don't really think this would be worth it).

No, on the other hand I wouldn't use that game to claim that the original was good, it's like saying Simon's Quest is the best NES Castlevania just because there's a patch fixing the game's flaws.

At the end of the day, it's just one bad entry in a long-running series. I suppose you could group it with Shadow 05, but calling the entire series bad because it produced a bad game or two is a little silly, especially when we're talking about it's perception in the 2010s.

I would say at least 3 really bad games (Boom included even if it's not canonical I'll still add to the series) and Lost World + Forces while not being good are nowhere near as tedious as Shadow nor 2006, just extremely bland games that tried to be too safe (and the opposite of the spectrum of those two).

As said above it'd be like taking Mario is Missing (yes, even if it's not developed by Nintendo EAD), Bomberman Act:Zero and even Metroid Other M then claim all of these franchises aren't good and anybody actually claiming they are would just be doing "revisionist mental gymnastic" which is a bit too easy to deflect any counterargument...

 

[God-Shattering Twink]

Sonic P-06 is at least decent for most people around. In fact this is the only way people should experience it (unless they really, really want to have the "authentic" feeling but I don't really think this would be worth it).

No, on the other hand I wouldn't use that game to claim that the original was good, it's like saying Simon's Quest is the best NES Castlevania just because there's a patch fixing the game's flaws.

I would say at least 3 really bad games (Boom included even if it's not canonical I'll still add to the series) and Lost World + Forces while not being good are nowhere near as tedious as Shadow nor 2006, just extremely bland games that tried to be too safe (and the opposite of the spectrum of those two).

As said above it'd be like taking Mario is Missing (yes, even if it's not developed by Nintendo EAD), Bomberman Act:Zero and even Metroid Other M then claim all of these franchises aren't good and anybody actually claiming they are would just be doing "revisionist mental gymnastic" which is a bit too easy to deflect any counterargument...

As an Adventure fan, P06 is frustratingly good, it really makes me wish the original 06 wasn't a such a trainwreck. However I will always encourage people to play the most faithful versions of games with popular patches/fixes, just to get an idea of why they're so infamous. Recently i've seen a large uptick in people calling 06 "misunderstood" after playing P06, because they don't have the context of how awful the original game was.

 

[KaiserMk7]

No, on the other hand I wouldn't use that game to claim that the original was good, it's like saying Simon's Quest is the best NES Castlevania just because there's a patch fixing the game's flaws.

Which Simon's Quest fan remake is the best though?

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Sheesh you guys write too much , on waffle comment about fan patches yea they are cool but the thing is they aren't "official" that will always be an obstacle because you can't get these cool stuff when you first install the game you have to look for it.

 

[MasterEn]

Sheesh you guys write too much , on waffle comment about fan patches yea they are cool but the thing is they aren't "official" that will always be an obstacle because you can't get these cool stuff when you first install the game you have to look for it.

if we want to write a post with enough words to rival the page count of ace attorney justice for all [1500 pages], then we will. and you can't stop us.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

if we want to write a post with enough words to rival the page count of ace attorney justice for all [1500 pages], then we will. and you can't stop us.

That would be too much lol , how about this hotcake , video game dialouge should consist of a round 20 words at most

 

[MasterEn]

That would be too much lol , how about this hotcake , video game dialouge should consist of a round 20 words at most

 

[Samatonic Samatonic]

The more we are gaining, the less time we have for them.

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

Self hatred can be healthy, bc hating yourself means you realized how much you suck as a person.
Speaking of, i should insult myself more bc i deserve it, bc self hatred can be healthy, and bc i'm the only honest one here

 

[Netra]

I don't like Breaking Bad.

I don't like Dragon ball Z, love Dragon ball but I can't like Z and the next parts.

I hate Game of Thrones, not only the last season, I hate all game of thrones.

I love the reboot or whatever it called of Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura, I don't know if the fandom calm down and change their minds but I remember they don't like it.

Naruto is ok but Shippuden have the most retarded characters I even see in a story, I just can't pass from chapter 50.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Sheesh you guys write too much.

Sorry for using an internet forum for its intended purpose.

That would be too much lol , how about this hotcake , video game dialogue should consist of a round 20 words at most.

It depends of the genre. RPGs having little to no dialogues would be harder to produce.

Especially when said genre is built around narration with 428 or Zero Escape.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

bc hating yourself means you realized how much you suck as a person.

I'm no psychologist but that's not necessarily the case. There's a difference between introspection and realisation.

I also think this is a harmful mindset to think that "if a person is hating themselves means they are not a good person" simply because either depression or some manipulative people could gaslight someone into hating themselves to begin with. Self-pity is not productive either.

Being self-confident doesn't mean someone isn't self-aware nor doing any introspection over themselves either.

and bc i'm the only honest one here.

What makes you think that and why are you assuming people around there aren't? Now you're sounding a bit self righteous with that statement.

 

[semyaza]

mainstream is a graveyard

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

What makes you think that and why are you assuming people around there aren't?

Bc my inner voice and my life keep reminding me of the stuff people say i'm not, like being stupid

 

[Burzuru]

disturbed's first album is there only good album
linkin park stopped being good after meteora. the new singer isn't as good.

uhhhh
deli hot rotisserie chickens

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

Vivendi should have relegated crash bandicoot and Spyro to only vicarious visions

 

[solnK!]

Vivendi should have relegated crash bandicoot and Spyro to only vicarious visions

true

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

I don't like Breaking Bad.

I don't like Dragon ball Z, love Dragon ball but I can't like Z and the next parts.

I hate Game of Thrones, not only the last season, I hate all game of thrones.

I love the reboot or whatever it called of Ranma 1/2 and Urusei Yatsura, I don't know if the fandom calm down and change their minds but I remember they don't like it.

Naruto is ok but Shippuden have the most retarded characters I even see in a story, I just can't pass from chapter 50.

This is so hot the heat can be felt through the screen!!!!

Self hatred can be healthy, bc hating yourself means you realized how much you suck as a person.
Speaking of, i should insult myself more bc i deserve it, bc self hatred can be healthy, and bc i'm the only honest one here

Nah bro , YOU SHOULD LOVE YOURSELF NOW once you start loving yourself you will see the world differently and you Will see yourself differently too