Hot takes

[Kamako]

...people trying hard to make video games a "legitimate art form" (by making hours long analysis about Zelda or pseudo deep indie games) are making me loathe them more than people who just sees them as a hobby or entertainment.

I understand this take. But for me, the "are videogames art?" argument is solved pretty easily.

- Video games are comprised of various types of art created by artists.
- These works of art form a cohesive artistic work in the form of a playable game.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I understand this take. But for me, the "are videogames art?" argument is solved pretty easily.

- Video games are comprised of various types of art created by artists.
- These works of art form a cohesive artistic work in the form of a playable game.

So you're saying it's an amalgamation?

I'd say that video game music and artworks can be art. Not the games per se.

Either way, many times I see people trying to convince that "video game is art" I mostly see either pseudo-intellectualism or desperation to make their hobby more legitimate.

Even people that love watching movies are trying hard to tell they're true appreciator by looking "artsy" movies while mocking people that liked the latest MCU.

 

[Kamako]

So you're saying it's an amalgamation?

Absolutely.

I'd say that video game music and artworks can be art. Not the games per se.

I can understand that.

Either way, many times I see people trying to convince that "video game is art" I mostly see either pseudo-intellectualism or desperation to make their hobby more legitimate.

Partly I chalk this up to passion, partly grifting through persuasion. If someone wants to make a living via YouTube, and all their content revolves around one topic, they're gonna try elevate that topic to make it seem like it's the most important thing in the world, and that their opinion on the subject is close to gospel.

Even people that love watching movies are trying hard to tell they're true appreciator by looking "artsy" movies while mocking people that liked the latest MCU.

All creative output is art imo. Any film, song, drawing, painting etc. None is greater or less than another. How the work impacts the beholder is totally subjective and dependent on artist intent, intended audience, the critic's mood for the day....It all seems very relative to me.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Partly I chalk this up to passion, partly grifting through persuasion. If someone wants to make a living via YouTube, and all their content revolves around one topic, they're gonna try elevate that topic to make it seem like it's the most important thing in the world, and that their opinion on the subject is close to gospel.

I can understand someone wanting to have a deep analysis of something if there's clearly an underlying message beneath but trying to intellectualise everything would probably have a negative effect, portraying fans of the medium as obsessed people that try making the smallest molehill into the Everest. You're right about the gospel part.

All creative output is art imo. Any film, song, drawing, painting etc. None is greater or less than another. How the work impacts the beholder is totally subjective and dependent on artist intent, intended audience, the critic's mood for the day....It all seems very relative to me.

Intent is a major part of art yet I feel like some would create intent where there wasn't any because we cannot be sure what the author was thinking all the time (and honestly there's that interesting idea about the death of the author which is about not trying to find everything from their personal lives to justify their art).

Everything is relative after all.

 

[KaiserMk7]

I won't insult anybody who has fun with video games because it's a hobby like music and movies.

On the other hand if someone, in society, is bragging about finishing Dark Souls in SL1 or any other "hard" tasks in video games, I am pretty sure many normal people (well, people not used to video games outside of the mainstream news or mobile ones) would see that person as a weirdly obsessed adult that doesn't always take a shower.

Somebody who won a sport competition or had helped science would be socially seen as a better person fundamentally speaking.

PS: It pains me to admit but people trying hard to make video games a "legitimate art form" (by making hours long analysis about Zelda or pseudo deep indie games) are making me loathe them more than people who just sees them as a hobby or entertainment.

If films can be an art form, video games certainly can be too.

 

[ThatOneLum]

I sometimes wonder if people confuse something "being art" and "having artistic merit"

Like, my little sister's doodles are really sweet and definitely art, but do they have artistic merit? No. They're for her to learn drawing and to show she's been thinking of me.

Similarly, technically Candice DeBeBe is a piece of art; but that doesn't mean it has artistic merit.

 

[moonbits]

It's a bit of a cop out to say because it's an amalgamation that it is art; by that perspective then mobile applications and websites are art because they take some artistic skill to realize.

I don't particularly find them to be art, since people are in control. Someone could play it like the developers intended and others might play it the way they want, skipping cutscenes or never touching the single player.

 

[semyaza]

applications, websites and even traffic signs can be art if people enjoy it as such, thats all there is to it imo, intent, craftmanship, usecase etc doesnt really matter

 

[shadowcat]

I would blame 90's localisation.

I don't think that's it. I've read enough manga and played enough JRPGs localized in that era to notice when they've taken liberties with localization or just done a poor job of it. Some conversations have too much of a 180 in tone to be blamed on that; it's more much similar to something like in a shounen manga when there is a super serious stare down with the enemy, and then somebody cuts the tension with a fart, except in Xenogear's case, the humor is not intended. The game just gives off YA novel writing that's trying to appear deeper than it is. Throwing in Jungian themes and then naming a character "Id" comes off closer to something akin to modern MCU, "look at this super cool reference, guys!", writing more than it does driving home the themes they are trying to present, especially with the lack of prowess and understanding on display when the themes of phycology, philosophy, and mythology are integrated into the narrative. I'll give Xenogears that it is ambitious, sure, and if your first exposure to these kind of themes was the game, maybe it could be the experience many describe, but I just didn't get that from it. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or sour anyone's feelings, just sharing my hot take, as per the thread title.

 

[moonbits]

Given the recent outrage on The Outer Worlds 2 not letting you romance your companions:

Romance in video games is super cringe, mediocre and the fact that people demand this feature is embarrassing.

Spoiler

Go on real dates, dating apps if you wanna romance someone.

 

[Leo-Dash]

You DON'T NEED to play a game yourself to experience and criticize the story aspects!

Just watch a full playthrough of it, you can judge the story aspect entirely by it, gameplay doesn't matter if the story is a movie!

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Given the recent outrage on The Outer Worlds 2 not letting you romance your companions:

Romance in video games is super cringe, mediocre and the fact that people demand this feature is embarrassing.

Spoiler

Go on real dates, dating apps if you wanna romance someone.

Careful right there you might get canceled for wanting connection with real human beings i mean how dare you call my virtual wife that i adore so much cringe? You know that I'm looking for you right now.....as i write this I'm contacting my agents through Europe , south America and north America to locate your exact location and address because no one and i mean NO ONE insults my virtual totally real and believable made out of pixels wife! I will have your head for this

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

You DON'T NEED to play a game yourself to experience and criticize the story aspects! Just watch a full playthrough of it, you can judge the story aspect entirely by it, gameplay doesn't matter if the story is a movie!

I'd go the extra mile and saying that if you can experience most of the game through youtube then the gameplay isn't that interesting.

I'll always advocate for gameplay over story anytime (yes, even if MGS was revolutionary yet the gameplay still followed unlike Death Stranding).

 

[moonbits]

death stranding's gameplay is superb

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

I've replayed the game not long ago and I don't recall having a surprise obstacle that I couldn't react to.

Thats called muscle memory.

 

[Trillid Tetraoxide]

Windows 10 and 11 is shit

 

[KaiserMk7]

Windows 10 and 11 is shit

Neither hot nor a gaming take.

 

[Miles]

Windows 10 and 11 is shit

That's a liquid nitrogen take lol

 

[Viviana Santos]

Guilty Gear Strive fucking sucks, and XRD is overrated trash. The last good Guilty Gear game is XX ACCENT CORE PLUS R.
Daisuke Ishiwatari is a hack and a sellout.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Thats called muscle memory.

That's not how muscle memory works.

You could say that for a fighting game or a shooter but for a platformer you can still react. You don't need to perfectly learn the level design to know where to go either.

Guilty Gear Strive fucking sucks, and XRD is overrated trash. The last good Guilty Gear game is XX ACCENT CORE PLUS R.
Daisuke Ishiwatari is a hack and a sellout.

Xrd is still a step in the right direction about how to make a 2D fighting game 3D. Street Fighter V could've embraced the aesthetic of SF Alpha (albeit with an older Ryu and Ken) with that style. SFIII was a masterclass of animation.

But I don't like how Strive removed most of the "heavy metal" aesthetic of the series and how "watered down" it feels.

 

[Viviana Santos]

Xrd is still a step in the right direction about how to make a 2D fighting game 3D. Street Fighter V could've embraced the aesthetic of SF Alpha (albeit with an older Ryu and Ken) with that style. SFIII was a masterclass of animation.

But I don't like how Strive removed most of the "heavy metal" aesthetic of the series and how "watered down" it feels.

Nah, Street Fighter IV is a better 2.5D fighting game than XRD. I hate XRD mainly because it retconned the series' lore and made the events of XX and Accent Core Plus no longer canon.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Nah, Street Fighter IV is a better 2.5D fighting game than XRD. I hate XRD mainly because it retconned the series' lore and made the events of XX and Accent Core Plus no longer canon.

IV looked fine but I don't like the 3D models compared to Alpha and III.

I know Guilty Gear has an extensive story and lore but should it matter in a fighting game?

Street Fighter almost always had a basic story yet was still popular.

 

[moonbits]

Loosing it's edge, which was what originally set it apart from everyone else was the biggest mistake they did with Guilty Gear. Blazblue changed everything within that company.

 

[Viviana Santos]

IV looked fine but I don't like the 3D models compared to Alpha and III.

I know Guilty Gear has an extensive story and lore but should it matter in a fighting game?

Street Fighter almost always had a basic story yet was still popular.

I honestly like the story and lore of the early Guilty Gear games before XRD. I think it's really messed up that Daisuke, being so selfish, decided to retcon the events of XX and Accent Core Plus.

 

[God-Shattering Twink]

The original .hack// series (Infection, Mutation, Outbreak, Quarantine) is leaps and bounds better than the G.U. entries. Aside from story, G.U. really feels like a sanded down version of the previous entries to the point where it feels like a different series entirely. I adored IMOQ's real-time battle system because it was frantic and strategic; in some fights, you would be using the party command menu so often that it felt like a turn-based RPG. In comparison, G.U. feels like more like a hack n' slash than a JRPG (and a pretty mediocre one at that).

I'm not sure if it's a hot take per se, the general consensus seems to be 50/50, but an frustrating amount of people swear on their lives that IMOQ can be safely skipped because it's too "old" or "clunky"

really, the moral here is to never skip entries in anything, ever