Your takes on AI art

Neither does companies have the divine right to use someone else work without permission or compessation to train their AI bot without a plan B (hiring an artist)

I have to disagree with you here. In a manor of speaking at this point all creatives are thieves if this is the case. If you are an artist that draws in the "anime" style then you could be considered a thief of all the influences that that inspired you. I didn't steal from the authors that inspired me to start writing. AI is not stealing your art. period. In the exact same way you didn't steal Andy Warhols' art and the same way I didn't steal Piers Anthonys' writing.

The cotton gin took countless jobs from farm hands all over the world. Is that a good thing? No, its not. But you have affordable comfortable underwear because of it.

I am not saying don't be mad about AI art. I am saying you can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
shit
absolute shit
if i see that shit, get it away
if you use it, you go away
all kinds of AI piss me off
it's another thing i hate about this modern age
and if you don't see the problem with it, then you're already part of the problem
it would've been great if it was just kept at the realm of memes, but people will see it's way more powerful to just be mere meme material
 
I think it's interesting that ROM piracy is being brought up as a counterpart to AI art. In both cases you are infringing on a person's intellectual property, but in one case the IP is protected by law (the ROMs) and in the other case it isn't. (After all, AI companies didn't compensate artists, writers or content creators before scraping their work and training their AI on them.)

I think this is also a lesson in how digital platforms work, though. When the internet provided a free platform for artists to exhibit their content, it wasn't doing it out of the goodness of some company's heart. As they say, if you're not paying for it, you are the product.
 
I'm okay if people use it for shitposts, temporary placeholders or something that's only meant for themselves. I'm sure it won't completely replace artists, the same way cameras didn't replace artists when they were invented. What we can do if we want to see less of it is rage against big companies and refuse to buy their products, if we do this often we might actually change something for the better.
Boycotting generally does not work. It feels good to do it, and you get to feel like you are winning, but you just don't. Nestlé is the most boycotted company in the world, and have been for decades, and yet the boycotts have barely made a dent in their success because hardly anyone knows why they are boycotted and most aren't even effected by what they do wrong or even know if they are. (If you need to ask why they are boycotted, you've proven my point.)

A boycott only works under specific circumstances: the audience who buys the product is made up entirely of people directly effected by the negative consequences of the actions of the producer of the product, and thus stops buying the product because they are horrified by the results. Examples:
  • Cats only appeals to musical fans, and to some degree LGBT people. The movie absolutely trashed everything fans liked about it (including heterosexualizing the gay characters). Thus, the only people who had a high likelihood of seeing it did not, and it was one of the biggest failures in film history.
  • Electric cars only sell well in the US to people who lean politically left. If you've payed attention to the news, you get where I'm going with that.
So with AI art, the people directly effected by it are the artists, while the paying audience are mostly non-artists. So you are never going to get enough of the non-artist crowd to boycott to have any real effect.

See? There it is, "it's fine if it is a big company, indie is a nono"
No, you're either fine with it or not. This way of thinking is just a self-defense against your own views because you feel guilty about it.
That is what I call a hypocrite, "cara dura" as we say here in Argentina.
Big difference. A big corporation makes huge amounts of money off of other people's labor. And piracy doesn't even negatively effect them: there's a lot of proof that it actually encourages more purchases. (SMT, Live A Live, and various other JP-only games have become more popular outside of Japan because of piracy, and made bank off of that.) At this point, companies are "fighting" piracy moreso to maintain control of IP rights than to make money off the individual sales they "miss out on".

Meanwhile, individual artists don't have tons of cash, don't have control over super-popular IPs, and usually rely on commission work. If the big corporations that lord over the IP world don't hire them, they are out of a job and have nothing to fall back on. This isn't about "feefees" (🙄), it's about survival.

No one gives a damn about the survival of a corporation's "legal personhood". They aren't human, and they have more money than some countries. But people do care about actual human beings that are at risk of losing their jobs. That isn't hypocritical; that's having a more advanced and nuanced moral framework than fallacious whataboutism and nonsensical absolutism.
 
I have to disagree with you here. In a manor of speaking at this point all creatives are thieves if this is the case. If you are an artist that draws in the "anime" style then you could be considered a thief of all the influences that that inspired you. I didn't steal from the authors that inspired me to start writing. AI is not stealing your art. period. In the exact same way you didn't steal Andy Warhols' art and the same way I didn't steal Piers Anthonys' writing.

The cotton gin took countless jobs from farm hands all over the world. Is that a good thing? No, its not. But you have affordable comfortable underwear because of it.

I am not saying don't be mad about AI art. I am saying you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Yes, all art takes inspiration from other art. And reusing ideas is a natural part of the arts anyways; that's why the public domain has been a legal concept since Rome. But even then, at least artists are making money within the machinework of corporations rather than a machine making money for a machine. The aesthetic ethics don't really matter in the long run; it's the economic ethics that do.

The cotton gin didn't replace jobs; it replaced slavery. It did the opposite of what AI is doing: giving people jobs instead of making them nonexistent. The two situations are not even relatable.

AI might create some jobs, but a lot of jobs will be lost because of it. That might not be a bad thing if we can find an economic solution to it (the current top candidate theory is Fully Automated Luxury Communism), but in the meantime, we need to figure out how to make the current system survive without collapsing on itself.

"No one gives a damn about the survival of a corporation's "legal personhood". They aren't human, and they have more money than some countries." So the dude that gets a paycheck working as a cleaner or security for this corporation isn't human? Got it.
Guess Ubisoft going under just hurts the CEO and his friends and NO ONE ELSE huh
Janitors can always work at another company or government institution or whatever. That's a transferable skill. Same for security. And they were never well paid to begin with. (Note: You just happened to choose the two people who could do much better in the public sector.)

Ubisoft won't go under. They are a capitalist god, and the public will not stop paying them tribute. Like I said, piracy helps, not hinders, corporations in the arts. They even benefit from the public domain (Gisnep especially, and they are the biggest of the eldritch abominations). They aren't losing money when they lose an individual customer; they only gain.

And "legal personhood" refers to the corporation, not the employees. It's the legal term that makes it so corporations never go to jail or get the death penalty but humans do for much less serious crime than what corporations commit. It's generally considered BS by anyone who has studied corporate corruption. You could have asked for clarification about the term instead of making a brash assumption that I'm somehow insulting actual people, especially because my whole argument is about protecting actual people. (I mentioned that literally in the next sentence after that one.)

That is a completely different situation from not being able to get a job. Nobody is firing Ubisoft and replacing them with Ubisoft.

Oh, and here's a link to the forum's rules, and a hat to keep you warm:
15-05-2013_ssur_cdgbeanie_black1.jpg
 
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I taught myself how to generate locally. I taught myself the basics, and delved as much as I could into what it is and what it does. I figured I couldn't have a valid opinion without educating myself first.

So firstly, generative AI isn't inherently evil. It's math, and the math is community made and driven. At its core, it's not theft. It's open source programming.

The issue comes from the models. Most people make models by scraping source material from the internet. This isn't necessarily bad if you're not planning on using it for capital gain.

I use models like this for personal use for portraits in D&D campaigns. In this sense, it's no different than pulling a reference image off the internet. It's purely personal, non-commercial use. I was never going to publicly post these images for personal gain, and I don't charge for DMing.

An artist could develop a model purely from their own portfolio, and use that tool in their arsenal for new works. It's not theft, since 100% of the source material is their own, and the algorithms are all open source. It's ethical.

What makes Gen AI 'bad', is entities using models that have scraped images off the internet, for capital gain. Large corporations are incorrectly using a tool to try and replace paid labor. It's doubly bad because they're both stealing works online, and not paying any artists to oversee the production of these pieces. That's when you get 'AI slop', which is generated images with 0 human intervention. No inpainting or post processing.

So basically, my 'opinion' is that it's a tool. People should be allowed to use it for fun if they don't have their own portfolios, but monetary gain should only happen if 100% of the model source material is your own portfolio.
 
People have already brought up my major problems with Gen. AI art but I do want to mention that another major problem with them is that in order to use things like ChatGPT, it requires a shit ton of energy. I think I remember one article saying it was like enough to power a city for a day or something like that. Basically, it leads to a lot of carbon emissions, which is... y'know, not good.

So, it's not just bad from a "this looks fucking awful" sense, but it's also extremely bad for the environment.
 
Not the biggest fan of AI art and media myself, outside of shitposting purposes. As a Vocaloid fan, I have genuine concern that AI music will become a threat to my fandom and have already saw Vocaloid catching strays from people that don't quite understand what it is.

Outside of that, I also have close friends that work in art, and have concerns that AI could possibly displace them in the future as well.
 
I have weird opinions on it as a crpg player. Normally I don't care for ai art but if I'm looking for character portraits, I've seen people complain that art is used without permisson (usually never the artists themselves) so I'm like damned twice. Well that and fantasy art tends towards elves and humans. ::cirnoshrug
 
See? There it is, "it's fine if it is a big company, indie is a nono"
No, you're either fine with it or not. This way of thinking is just a self-defense against your own views because you feel guilty about it.
That is what I call a hypocrite, "cara dura" as we say here in Argentina.

Well, I know people who work in the vg industry, particularly at indie studios, so it makes me feel differently if I were to take directly from them for my own benefit than a nameless shell corporation for example. If that makes me a hypocrite, I guess I'm a hypocrite. Truth is it's hard to live your entire life without being one to someone else. There is a human element here too b/c I have a connection with people. That's why it's important to make distinctions for me. Pirating still feels very different than stealing someone's creative work and trying to pass it off as one's own. They're not quite the same thing but I understand where you are coming from.
 
As a Vocaloid fan, I have genuine concern that AI music will become a threat to my fandom
That's actually a very interesting point. To you, what makes a Vocaloid song different from an AI-generated song? You're still feeding a real person's input (in this case, a real singer's voice) into a piece of software, then using it to generate a track that isn't sung by a human and that the original artist doesn't have ownership over. Couldn't you say it's essentially the same thing as, like, Suno or something, just with slightly more direct input by a producer?
 
That's actually a very interesting point. To you, what makes a Vocaloid different from an AI-generated song? You're still feeding a real person's input (in this case, a real singer's voice) into a piece of software, then using it to generate a track that isn't sung by a human and that the original artist doesn't have ownership over. Couldn't you say it's essentially the same thing as, like Suno or something, just with slightly more direct input by a producer?
A lot of it boils down to the effort involved, I suppose. Having messed around with it, Vocaloid takes a fair bit of effort and tuning to get sounding a certain way, to the point where I feel it's more a tool or instrument than a shortcut.

Which, to be fair, I have less issue with AI when it's also being used as just a tool, or a small step in the creative process of an artist. Much of my personal issue comes from passing totally or near-totally AI works as art.
 
I got tired. Gonna delete my rants.
Don't like it?
Don't use it.
Nos vemos
The is a reductionist view. Artists won't be using it if they lose their jobs. The consumer won't use it but will feel the effects on the economy. (Note that California, the most populous state in the US, is heavily dependent on IP for billions of its revenue. At the very least, LA will feel it.) The environment will feel the effect, and everyone else as a result. This is not something that can be ignored.
 
Well, I know people who work in the vg industry, particularly at indie studios, so it makes me feel differently if I were to take directly from them for my own benefit than a nameless shell corporation for example. If that makes me a hypocrite, I guess I'm a hypocrite. Truth is it's hard to live your entire life without being one to someone else. There is a human element here too b/c I have a connection with people. That's why it's important to make distinctions for me. Pirating still feels very different than stealing someone's creative work and trying to pass it off as one's own. They're not quite the same thing but I understand where you are coming from.
That's it. I don't care if our stances don't align. You own your hypocrisy about it and I can respect that.
What pisses me off is people writing whole sections of humans as monsters just because they didn't want to deal with having to find decent artists in the PIT of egomanias and assholes that is the commission market for example. (I'm an asshole too since I do the same with a lot of stuff, people, groups and fandoms)
I know docens of cases where the "poor artists" just fkd whole projects for their ego, so I don't blame some dude using AI images for something like trying to give a D&D game some light.
 
Not the biggest fan of AI art and media myself, outside of shitposting purposes. As a Vocaloid fan, I have genuine concern that AI music will become a threat to my fandom and have already saw Vocaloid catching strays from people that don't quite understand what it is.

Outside of that, I also have close friends that work in art, and have concerns that AI could possibly displace them in the future as well.
Vocaloid isn't the same as AI on a commercial level. Everyone knows Miku isn't real, for one. But also, Vocaloid never made a huge dent in the music industry outside of Japan. Japan is the only country where it's become normalized to replace workers with robots. That's mainly because the birth rate is declining and companies can't afford to pay people to do simple jobs like sell soft drinks (hence all the vending machines). So a robot singer isn't that big of a stretch. (We can also credit the much bigger otaku culture there, as well as traditional beliefs in animism, but the former is obvious and the latter might be a stretch.)

Meanwhile, the West has opposed replacing musicians even since the 90s. Electronica went downhill because it was too robotic for most; as far as people were concerned, anyone with a computer could put out that kind of music without "natural" musical skill. (Note: Not starting a fight on this; just stating the general consensus.) And we also had animated musical groups (Alvin & the Chipmunks, Gorillas, etc) that were just considered a novelty. And the birth rate, which declining, is off-set by immigration, so there's no push for replacing employees at the moment.

As for AI changing Vocaloid, that will likely happen. Synthesizer V already made a better Kasane Teto, who is very close to sounding human. We'll eventually see voices that are just like human ones.
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This should be a civilized thread on takes about AI art, but things are heating up here.
Most of us are being civil. Please don't blame everyone for one person's behavior.
 
Vocaloid isn't the same as AI on a commercial level.
Building off of this, I want to note that I'm pretty sure that all the voice actors and actresses that provide their voices to the Vocaloid characters are at least AWARE and recorded their voice samples while knowing what they will be used for. In other words: Consent.

With other programs, it's done generally without consent from the person the voices belongs to and opens the way for people to use them for things like scamming gullible people out of money, getting in trouble with the law by using a gen AI to make it sound like they're making some kind of threat, or potentially making them lose their job by making them say something racist. The first one has happened, by the way. I think there is evidence of the elderly getting scammed out of money because scammers have pretended to be their grandkids.

"But couldn't you do the same thing with Vocaloid?" Yes, but the difference is that Vocaloid samples are attached to the character, not the VA. In other words, when people hear any Hatsune Miku song, they hear Hatsune Miku, and not Saki Fujita. While yes, Saki Fujita provided the voice samples, her actual voice is different from Miku's.

I hope this makes sense.
 

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