Your takes on AI art

[miguk]

You're not only tracing, but you're doing an advanced version of it.

Oh boy, you're opening a can of worms accusing artists of being tracers.

(Funny things I noticed on rewatching this: the guy in the yellow shirt is a young Casey Affleck, and Jason Lee's last line of the scene is the first reference to The Cockknocker in Smith's universe, implying that Banky based that character off the "tracer" guy.)

 

[Antilocal123]

I think it’s lazy, I’d rather the horrendous art than the supposed “good” art of some robot, especially when most people don't even use it for anything but gooning.

Which is fine I guess, but just be truthful and say what you’re really using it for lol

 

[RedNin3]

Its a genie who has been let out of the bottle. It WILL become indistinguishable from actual art one day (sooner than we'd like) and we all WILL be worse off because of it.

However, I do find it funny that people would say "its theft" on a forum that is based around sharing roms. A lot of people think that is theft too (I don't).
Is the AI just emulating art?

I was thinking the same thing. I'm seeing people who are okay with pirating stuff (that can still be legally bought) in other posts, but generative AI is wrong cause artists feefees?¿
Guys, use the same moral stick for all your stuff, if you don't, it's called hypocrisy.
Either be consistent or don't air your opinion about it.

 

[cubonion]

Simply don't. AI art is not art, and I find it even insulting to real art. Arguments as to why AI art should be accepted are BS and made up by people who aren't even artists, so no. It's simple actually.

I agree its just slop, i wanted to see what people thought

 

[Samatonic]

To make it simple, A.I art isn't art, it's a piece of a product. It's a wild fire that has engulfed almost all platforms, Pinterest, Wallpapers, DeviantArt(some parts), Tumblr, YouTube, Etc. They are all going haywired. There is no special divider or separator that can make it easier for stuff to seen as A.I or not. That bad for the artists and the viewers. A special system could be arranged where A.I categories could make it easier to identify.
Help me out here guys, am I wrong here ?

 

[SleepyRyGuy]

Honestly, as an artist myself this is a no-brainer... HELL NO. AI GOTTA GO! ... but as an appreciator of beautiful things I also feel torn. I've seen a lot of AI art that is absolute garbage... but I've also seen AI art that has absolutely changed the way I look at art. It's the proverbial question that is posed to humanity, does the end justify the means? I don't think so. Putting tens of thousands of artists, who are already not exactly the richest people in the world, out of work... is directly hurting peoples livelihood. Things they've spent their entire lives studying and perfecting gone in an instant. Convenience. I don't care how good you are at what you do, you can't compete with AI. It takes 3 minutes or less for AI to make something that looks professional nowadays. It might take an artist several weeks and many hours to make something that looks that good. From a business perspective the choice is a no-brainer. From an ethical standpoint, this is killing people. The problem is that people prioritize convenience over all else. People will keep using this and it will become much much harder to detect AI art as people and AI architecture become better at being sneaky, the little bastards. lol

 

[RedNin3]

I don't think AI will ever "replace" art. That's like when people were afraid that photography would make art irrelevant. Photography encouraged painters to abandon realism and embrace personal expression. AI can't generate something spontaneously without a prompt, so it will mostly be used to imitate the styles of well-established artists. It cannot "be" the next Cézanne or Picasso.

The real problem is economic, especially for people who make concept art, fanart, commissions, etc. Those people are seriously threatened by AI because their work is basically done by request. So of course their customers are going to prefer the cheap or free option of AI generation. There will be some commission artists who survive probably on the sheer strength of their talent, and there will always be people who would rather commission a "genuine" piece, but the market will become smaller.

I think this is basically a problem with how artists haven't been fairly compensated for their work for ages, how the commercial illustration market collapsed in the 2000s, and how most genre artists work as freelancers by commission. Those people never had job security and now AI is coming to wipe out their market. It must be extremely frustrating.

Some people believe that the general public will tire of the AI art "style," which is still easily identifiable in most cases, but I don't think that's true. LLMs will continue to evolve and produce more varied, more sophisticated, and more faithful images. Besides, in 99% of cases, people just want to generate a sexy lady or a photorealistic Pokémon or a meme or whatever. They don't need a genius to do it. And as long as it continues to be cheaper than paying an artist, they will certainly prefer it.

I used it with a friend making a full pokedex because we were bored one day, none of us knew how to draw a straight line and we didn't have money to pay for 100+ random fakemon. The results were generic but decent, we still didn't post it anywhere nor called ourselves "artists" for doing it, and just had it on our chat for a while.
The ones that call themselves "AI artists" are the worst of the bunch, I don't mind those that make sure to own that they are just using AI for funsies cause I just can ignore it if I don't like it.

 

[3ch0_0n3]

What do you think about it?

I'll start:

In my honest opinion, I think its kind of like a "plague", can't look anywhere without seeing it...
Recently, shops in my area started using it. Why can't they get a picture off the internet, or, hire an artist? Its totally BS in my opinion.

i think it brings more harm than good tbh... but im not too sensitive when i see it. im more worried that the more time goes by the harder it is to recognise one

 

[cubonion]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm seeing people who are okay with pirating stuff (that can still be legally bought) in other posts, but generative AI is wrong cause artists feefees?¿
Guys, use the same moral stick for all your stuff, if you don't, it's called hypocrisy.
Either be consistent or don't air your opinion about it.

But like, its not the same at all. While we all in this forum are using illegal copies of games, that doesnt mean we cant have an opinion of this...
Plus, some of the games in this forum are either super scalped in price, or just not available at all. Anyways, thats not the point

Making the assumption that because both are "stealing" we all should be okay with it is kinda wild, think of this situation:
Someone steals a cosmetic from a cosmetics store
Someone steals the bank information of someone that works paycheck to paycheck

Should the one who steals from the cosmetics store be okay with what the other person steals?
I dont really think so..
Both are bad, but its diferent levels of "bad"

AI art steals from artist that in cases, that is the primary source of income that they have.
So no, in my view, its not hypocristy to have an opinion on this while being on the forum

 

[TotzOnGaming]

It undermines the time, effort and skills that artists put into their art. If an aspiring artist settles with it. that's wasted potential on what could've been real skill. Still though if you like it, I won't fault you.

 

[RedNin3]

But like, its not the same at all. While we all in this forum are using illegal copies of games, that doesnt mean we cant have an opinion of this...
Plus, some of the games in this forum are either super scalped in price, or just not available at all. Anyways, thats not the point

Making the assumption that because both are "stealing" we all should be okay with it is kinda wild, think of this situation:
Someone steals a cosmetic from a cosmetics store
Someone steals the bank information of someone that works paycheck to paycheck

Should the one who steals from the cosmetics store be okay with what the other person steals?
I dont really think so..
Both are bad, but its diferent levels of "bad"

AI art steals from artist that in cases, that is the primary source of income that they have.
So no, in my view, its not hypocristy to have an opinion on this while being on the forum

I wasn't talking about PS1 games that are 200dollars+ on a scalper market. I'm talking about people being fine with pirating indie games cause they don't have demos and stuff like that, but get mad on behalf of some random Instagram artist because a bot account posted AI art that looks like theirs (which most of the time use a generic af style honestly).
It doesn't matter if they are 2 different levels of "bad", it still is the hypocrisy of those that do it.
I pirate games, and I'm fine with AI "art" existing. Just the same way I ignore games I'm not interested in when browsing pirate sites, I ignore AI stuff on my feeds that just looks bad.
AI ain't replacing good artists any time soon, but every art market is oversaturated with people thinking they can live just from commissions and have nothing planned if they can't. And that isn't a new problem, it has been happening since a long time before AI was a thing.

 

[SleepyRyGuy]

AI art steals from artist that in cases, that is the primary source of income that they have.
So no, in my view, its not hypocristy to have an opinion on this while being on the forum

I see what he was saying but I also disagree with it. AI is putting people who are financially hurting out of work, nevermind simply stealing from artists and the capacity for widening abuse may eventually erode to the point that it puts vulnerable people in poverty, if it hasn't already. Stealing ideas happens all the time when it comes to art but purposefully stealing someone's work, repurposing it and repackaging it and calling it your own is about the scummiest thing I can think of b/c it potentially hurts the most vulnerable people.

It's interesting he brings up pirating as a validation. Especially at a site like this. It makes sense to do it but I don't think it's really going to prove helpful to someone trying to make such a case.

But if I have to answer as to moral conundrums one has if they have to assume both are somehow equivalent actions, then I'll do my best to break it down.

I do pirate stuff. Do I feel bad about it? Yea kinda, sometimes. Most of the stuff I "pirate" I already own. (Not all of it)
The question I ask in these situations is this... Who does this hurt? When I take this or that... It mostly hurts people who are already millionaires many times over. Who aren't struggling to put food on the table. Am I trying to morally justify myself? ... eh probably. However I try to look at this as a human where I can. I try not to pirate things from small indie studios or independent artists for this reason.

 

[cubonion]

I wasn't talking about PS1 games that are 200dollars+ on a scalper market. I'm talking about people being fine with pirating indie games cause they don't have demos and stuff like that, but get mad on behalf of some random Instagram artist because a bot account posted AI art that looks like theirs (which most of the time use a generic af style honestly).
It doesn't matter if they are 2 different levels of "bad", it still is the hypocrisy of those that do it.
I pirate games, and I'm fine with AI "art" existing. Just the same way I ignore games I'm not interested in when browsing pirate sites, I ignore AI stuff on my feeds that just looks bad.
AI ain't replacing good artists any time soon, but every art market is oversaturated with people thinking they can live just from commissions and have nothing planned if they can't. And that isn't a new problem, it has been happening since a long time before AI was a thing.

I can see how you would see this as hypocrisy then. Those kinds of people, as you described in the first part of your post, are hypocrites

But, is it really hypocrisy if you pirate games from big companies, and are not okay with art being stolen? Imo i dont think it is

The people living off comissions isnt really a problem, the problem is that with the use of AI art they cant really do that work anymore, even if its their problem that they didnt plan anything if that didnt work

But yeah, at the end of the day, both are theft, even if it doesnt make if better for the other one respectively

 

[SpcDaicon]

I think there is much confusion when people discuss Generative AI. The artistic and the economic discussions tend to be jumbled together.

To me, the discussion if AI art can be considered Art is somewhat missing the point of the real problem AI art can bring which is how only corporations will benefit from it. The entire art discussion is something up to academic debate while the economic implications are the more immediate problem.

Corporations will push it just so they can use it to cut costs of hiring artists but will disguise it saing thy are some kind of boundary pushing company in the forefront of technology, all that so the higherups can make more money.

Even if the general public can reap some of the benefits, it only hurts them on the long run

I was thinking the same thing. I'm seeing people who are okay with pirating stuff (that can still be legally bought) in other posts, but generative AI is wrong cause artists feefees?¿

Thing is: when the game is shipped all ther artists, programmers, and all other staff were already paid. The only one "hurting" from pirating are companies. Generative AI is DIRECTLY using artist's work without paying them.

There is a BIG diferrence for a company not getting $60 for a pirated game and an artist not getting $60 for a comission. It's a misleading equivalency

 

[RedNin3]

I see what he was saying but I also disagree with it. AI is putting people who are financially hurting out of work, nevermind simply stealing from artists and the capacity for widening abuse may eventually erode to the point that it puts vulnerable people in poverty, if it hasn't already. Stealing ideas happens all the time when it comes to art but purposefully stealing someone's work, repurposing it and repackaging it and calling it your own is about the scummiest thing I can think of b/c it potentially hurts the most vulnerable people.

It's interesting he brings up pirating as a validation. Especially at a site like this. It makes sense to do it but I don't think it's really going to prove helpful to someone trying to make such a case.

But if I have to answer as to moral conundrums one has if they have to assume both are somehow equivalent actions, then I'll do my best to break it down.

I do pirate stuff. Do I feel bad about it? Yea kinda, sometimes. Most of the stuff I "pirate" I already own. (Not all of it)
The question I ask in these situations is this... Who does this hurt? When I take this or that... It mostly hurts people who are already millionaires many times over. Who aren't struggling to put food on the table. Am I trying to morally justify myself? ... eh probably. However I try to look at this as a human where I can. I try not to pirate things from small indie studios or independent artists for this reason.

See? There it is, "it's fine if it is a big company, indie is a nono"
No, you're either fine with it or not. This way of thinking is just a self-defense against your own views because you feel guilty about it.
That is what I call a hypocrite, "cara dura" as we say here in Argentina.

 

[Denmdm]

@RedNin3 Sorry, can't seem to grasp it with so many points being made at the same time; do you accept AI art or are you against it?

 

[RedNin3]

@RedNin3 Sorry, can't seem to grasp it with so many points being made at the same time; do you accept AI art or are you against it?

I don't care about it because I just ignore bad art that I don't like. AI or not doesn't matter.
And I get pissed off whenever the "white knights" of this stuff go around separating things into levels to not feel guilty about it (and this includes all sides of the discussion).

 

[destinyduelist]

However, I do find it funny that people would say "its theft" on a forum that is based around sharing roms.

I want to preface this by saying I don't mean to come off as rude or looking down on anyone, I know this response might seem like it (I'm writing this AFTER I wrote the entire response) but I promise I'm not trying to be aggressive, its just how I write my debates or arguments and they come off as a little condescending sometimes, its never my intention. Anyway;
Because Shittendo and similar companies have made it impossible to play 80% of their back catalogue without pirating. This is a stark difference to what you're trying to say. I get where you're coming from, but pirating some game from 1995 that you physically can't play anymore isn't the same as having the life work of a single individual who doesn't make money off it stolen anyway. I can't feel any sympathy for these multi-billion dollar companies and compare them to a single person. This is why I don't pirate indie games, and of course if its possible to purchase an old game legally (and it isn't a horrible port that's worse in every way) I'll end up buying it for my collection if its a game I really love.
I know people will jump to say "Aha! But what about Switch Online!" What about it? You mean to tell me Nintendo only made like 40 games in their entire history? Come on man, don't even joke.
Also, not to mention pirating an animated TV show isn't the same as AI stealing art either. This is why I said artists don't get paid as is, companies like Netflix pay their animators for the initial release of a stream, this means if you're watching something on Netflix that's animated like 4 months after it came out, those animators are getting 0 royalties while Netflix is lining their pockets full. But this is a whole different topic.

 

[RedNin3]

I will stop answering about this topic anyway.
Tdlr: - No, AI will not kill artists' livelihoods if they have something truly unique.
- Don't like it? block it, ignore it, report it even.
- Just because you are an artist, doesn't mean you have the divine right to live from it without any plan B.

 

[Vesthal]

In mg opinion AI art can only be used as a reference, like you have an idea but don't have a rappresentation so you make one with AI then based that one you fully draw it

 

[Wechseln]

Made me give up on my dream.

The memes are insanely good tho!

 

[destinyduelist]

Just because you are an artist, doesn't mean you have the divine right to live from it without any plan B.

Hey true that, but we're over here talking about companies. Again, take a look at Ubislop and their new AI voice actor. You know damn well it isn't going to end at NPC dialogue.
Take a look at EA with their recent push on Apex Legends voice actors to sign their voices to be used to train AI and make AI sound like them. This isn't really an artist only thing, and it isn't as simple as "having something unique" that is a very uninformed and ignorant take.
But yeah, I do agree with you on the plan B thing. People like me who are just now starting out in the business of professional art as of this year shouldn't really be kicking their feet around and should be searching and opening up new opportunities.

 

[SpcDaicon]

- Just because you are an artist, doesn't mean you have the divine right to live from it without any plan B.

Neither does companies have the divine right to use someone else work without permission or compessation to train their AI bot without a plan B (hiring an artist)

 

[RedNin3]

Hey true that, but we're over here talking about companies. Again, take a look at Ubislop and their new AI voice actor. You know damn well it isn't going to end at NPC dialogue.
Take a look at EA with their recent push on Apex Legends voice actors to sign their voices to be used to train AI and make AI sound like them. This isn't really an artist only thing, and it isn't as simple as "having something unique" that is a very uninformed and ignorant take.
But yeah, I do agree with you on the plan B thing. People like me who are just now starting out in the business of professional art as of this year shouldn't really be kicking their feet around and should be searching and opening up new opportunities.

(Last answer I swear)
That is the thing, it's not just artists, anyone should always have a plan B.
I'm a PC technician and a decent app coder. I don't work or live from either of them because life happened and ended up working in security. But I don't go screaming to people like I have the right to live from what I actually want to do, that is why I'm VERY picky with what artists I follow since a big % of them go around acting like spoiled brats.

 

[Naamra_kazakaru]

good for a quick jer...
Never mind.