Why Sony from the PS2 and PSP era felt different?

[Lee__Kanker]

I mean you can get into any job for any reason, Matsuno fell into a career in video games where he worked through his ideas on the ethnic cleansings in Bosnia, for example. Buronson had some similar things in mind with Hokuto no Ken, but I'd have to go back through some volumes to find his exact quotes.

The meaning of a space "safe from whiteness" is that it doesn't actually apply to white individuals, academically speaking we're talking the social and political ruling hierarchies of America, it's a systemic critique. (Again, not a well-made one, like I said I don't agree, but no one's advocating discrimination at least.)

As for the writers, I dunno man, Ta-Nahesi Coates wrote some solid Black Panther once he transitioned from "novel" brain and got the swing of the medium.

They didnt work in comics and games Specifically to be an activist, they made good comics and games first. They can have their own beliefs in their work but with the companies sony works for now the intent is purely political instead of making a good game

I disagree, but debating that is going off topic

I also disagree, you can have a story thats political but that doesnt make it good, in modern games theres scenes after scenes where its just characters lecturing you, its boring, and old PS used to be all about pushing against mainstream sensibilities and being edgy; now they hire people to make sure they dont offend anyone, its become just like tv; the thing I was glad games were different from

 

[ATenderLad]

They didnt work in comics and games Specifically to be an activist, they made good comics and games first. They can have their own beliefs in their work but with the companies sony works for now the intent is purely political instead of making a good game

I disagree, but debating that is going off topic

I also disagree, you can have a story thats political but that doesnt make it good, in modern games theres scenes after scenes where its just characters lecturing you, its boring, and old PS used to be all about pushing against mainstream sensibilities and being edgy; now they hire people to make sure they dont offend anyone, its become just like tv; the thing I was glad games were different from

Of course, but the people making games at Sony didn't either. They sought an outside perspective on some things, and while I don't think there needs to be an entire *consulting* firm for that, it doesn't invalidate the creative pursuits of the developers at Insomniac or Remedy, etc.

Alright.

This just kinda feels ahistorical, games like (here I go being on topic for once) Metal Gear Solid *absolutely* stopped the show to lecture you. Kojima radicalized me and plenty of other kids against the use of nuclear weapons, let me tell ya. I remember my uncle in the military calling it....to be honest, I won't be verbatim, real racist stuff, but suffice to say he didn't think I needed that kind of "PC brainwashing". (That was the buzzword, back then.) I agree that people shouldn't be hired to avoid offense *specifically*, but if you're looking for other lived experience to make a collaborative work feel more fleshed out, I can't fault that reasoning.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Of course, but the people making games at Sony didn't either. They sought an outside perspective on some things, and while I don't think there needs to be an entire *consulting* firm for that, it doesn't invalidate the creative pursuits of the developers at Insomniac or Remedy, etc.

Alright.

This just kinda feels ahistorical, games like (here I go being on topic for once) Metal Gear Solid *absolutely* stopped the show to lecture you. Kojima radicalized me and plenty of other kids against the use of nuclear weapons, let me tell ya. I remember my uncle in the military calling it....to be honest, I won't be verbatim, real racist stuff, but suffice to say he didn't think I needed that kind of "PC brainwashing". (That was the buzzword, back then.) I agree that people shouldn't be hired to avoid offense *specifically*, but if you're looking for other lived experience to make a collaborative work feel more fleshed out, I can't fault that reasoning.

Its not perspective, they think it'll sell more if they're sanitised, before they just cared about making the game they wanted, being offensive and daring and unlike the mainstream used to be a selling point. About the only thing thats left thats more risquè than tv is the violence

I Heavily disagree, mgs never feels like the game is talking down to you and telling you "This is what you should think and if you dont you're a bad person" even if your uncle got mad at it
It has a message but it doesnt make all the characters who disagree with the author completely wrong, unsympathetic and boring
You can understand why big boss did what he did or even agree, you can decide wether the patriots and solidus were right or wrong or agree with some points they made while disagree with others. The games arent terrified to let you think how you want and it makes everyone explain their point of view. Thats not lecturing

"looking for other lived experience to make a collaborative work feel more fleshed out" Just sounds like buzzwords to make you hire a middle man, playstation did just fine without em

 

[ATenderLad]

Its not perspective, they think it'll sell more if they're sanitised, before they just cared about making the game they wanted, being offensive and daring and unlike the mainstream used to be a selling point. About the only thing thats left thats more risquè than tv is the violence

I Heavily disagree, mgs never feels like the game is talking down to you and telling you "This is what you should think and if you dont you're a bad person" even if your uncle got mad at it
It has a message but it doesnt make all the characters who disagree with the author completely wrong, unsympathetic and boring
You can understand why big boss did what he did or even agree, you can decide wether the patriots and solidus were right or wrong or agree with some points they made while disagree with others. The games arent terrified to let you think how you want and it makes everyone explain their point of view. Thats not lecturing

"looking for other lived experience to make a collaborative work feel more fleshed out" Just sounds like buzzwords to make you hire a middle man, playstation did just fine without em

That's assuming a lot about the inner thinking of developers, sorry, I'm not sure we're gonna get anywhere arguing over "no they really think that."

Metal Gear Solid literally stops the gameplay for the head of an American defense contractor to rant about the wild irresponsibility of nucelar armaments, complete with (I think) actual live footage to further make it's point. (He's also irate that he isn't insulated from the consequences of advancing a new age of warfare, "this isn't what you promised, Jim!", something like that) It's unquestionably a lecture, come on.

I'd argue it's just not assuming you already know everything, about everyone? Call of Duty used to interview WW2 veterans to get a lived experience, to make their collaborative work feel more fleshed out. Again, like I said the last couple times, I wouldn't pay for it, but I get the motivation.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

That's assuming a lot about the inner thinking of developers, sorry, I'm not sure we're gonna get anywhere arguing over "no they really think that."

Metal Gear Solid literally stops the gameplay for the head of an American defense contractor to rant about the wild irresponsibility of nucelar armaments, complete with (I think) actual live footage to further make it's point. (He's also irate that he isn't insulated from the consequences of advancing a new age of warfare, "this isn't what you promised, Jim!", something like that) It's unquestionably a lecture, come on.

I'd argue it's just not assuming you already know everything, about everyone? Call of Duty used to interview WW2 veterans to get a lived experience, to make their collaborative work feel more fleshed out. Again, like I said the last couple times, I wouldn't pay for it, but I get the motivation.

Im not assuming, games were made by devs who grew up with the famicom and arcades and wanted to enter the industry for the most part. The mentality was fun/unique experience first

Like I said, theres a difference between having a clear message and talking down to you, like I said his is not the only perspective that matters in the story and the gameplay doesnt literally stop if it flows with the story (unless you mean it literally stops cause its a cutscene)

Interviewing people isnt hiring middle men to oversee the final product

 

[ATenderLad]

Im not assuming, games were made by devs who grew up with the famicom and arcades and wanted to enter the industry for the most part. The mentality was fun/unique experience first

Like I said, theres a difference between having a clear message and talking down to you, like I said his is not the only perspective that matters in the story and the gameplay doesnt literally stop if it flows with the story (unless you mean it literally stops cause its a cutscene)

Interviewing people isnt hiring middle men to oversee the final product

Ehhhh...so I was referring to the current developers, that we can't assume their inner thinking. I think I'm gonna tap out here, I don't think we're understanding each other in this particular conversation, which I started by responding so that's on me. We'll talk about something else in another thread I'm sure.

(Since you asked though, yes it's multiple cutscenes stitched together. Wonderful game, one of my favorites.)

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Ehhhh...so I was referring to the current developers, that we can't assume their inner thinking. I think I'm gonna tap out here, I don't think we're understanding each other in this particular conversation, which I started by responding so that's on me. We'll talk about something else in another thread I'm sure.

(Since you asked though, yes it's multiple cutscenes stitched together. Wonderful game, one of my favorites.)

Its fine to have respectful disagreements, I love metal gear too

 

[kamille]

That's an odd takeaway, friend. I watched the video you posted, and while I think the representational politics they posit is reductive (shortest possible version is that it's a very liberal "market" solution, like "only black-owned millionaires will save us" instead of a real change), there's nothing violent being said or implied, "race wars" is being perhaps too defensive about your own political identity. This video can't hurt you, nor can *checks wikipedia* a consulting firm weighing in on the script of a video game bring about an ethnic cleansing.

i don't get it. how can it be anything but violent? the very fact they have to mention some specific skin colour in the first place tells me all i have to know about them. and the ideas in their head and what they think of me. (and probably people of other skin colours too) anyway that kind politics related thing was not specifically my point with my earlier comment. though that is part of the reason why modern games gaming is in a downwards spiral.

 

[RedNin3]

They wanted to beat XBox at being the "mature" platform but ended up being the most edgelordish (while also killing tons of good franchises).

 

[Big Finger Jim]

It was the height of experimentality mixed with actually having the hardware to flesh out those ideas, and even if the games weren't 100% polished, they were purely carried by charm, ambition, and great gameplay. That's why it's the best.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

It was the height of experimentality mixed with actually having the hardware to flesh out those ideas, and even if the games weren't 100% polished, they were purely carried by charm, ambition, and great gameplay. That's why it's the best.

Like I said I dont think this specific moment in the game industry will ever be replicated

 

[G78]

I completely agree! The era of PlayStation 2 and PSP was truly special. Studios weren’t afraid to experiment, creating genuinely unique projects. Every new game felt like an event, and the leap in graphics compared to previous generations was simply impressive.
The PSP was a real revolution. At the time, a portable device with PS2-level games seemed like something out of science fiction. Even with its limitations, no one paid attention to the flaws back then — it was pure ‘wow-effect.’ I still remember seeing GTA: Liberty City Stories on the PSP for the first time and being convinced I was holding a technological marvel.
The PS3 and Xbox 360 generations also knew how to impress. However, starting with the 8th generation of consoles, developers and studios began to realize the financial realities of the industry. There was less room for risk-taking, and game development became significantly more expensive, which impacted the creativity and variety we had seen in previous generations.

 

[RashFaustinho]

Two more PlayStation live service games have been canceled:

• God of War by Bluepoint (so much for turning them into Sony's FromSoftware…)
• An unspecified game by Bend Studio (those poor Days Gone devs, lmao).

What can I say? The cleanup of the utter mess PlayStation has caused continues.

Damn Xbox too—it’s the perfect time to punish the competitor, and instead, they've been fooling around this entire generation.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Two more PlayStation live service games have been canceled:

• God of War by Bluepoint (so much for turning them into Sony's FromSoftware…)
• An unspecified game by Bend Studio (those poor Days Gone devs, lmao).

What can I say? The cleanup of the utter mess PlayStation has caused continues.

Damn Xbox too—it’s the perfect time to punish the competitor, and instead, they've been fooling around this entire generation.

Hell yeah

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

Two more PlayStation live service games have been canceled:

• God of War by Bluepoint (so much for turning them into Sony's FromSoftware…)
• An unspecified game by Bend Studio (those poor Days Gone devs, lmao).

What can I say? The cleanup of the utter mess PlayStation has caused continues.

Damn Xbox too—it’s the perfect time to punish the competitor, and instead, they've been fooling around this entire generation.

Pft, when was the last time you heard a normie say something good about e
Xbox? The only thing they have going for them is gamepass

 

[Parasite_Steve]

In general Sony seems to be struggling with management issues in many departments, but also the tides of aaa gaming have changed dramatically since the ps1 and ps2 days.
I think what created the current climate of these very serious titles with overblown budgets is the industry seeking validation of video games as art from people who don’t understand or like video games. Virtually anybody who has an interest in games knows they have been art forever basically but unlike other forms of media like movies you have to play a game to understand it. To alleviate this just make your games look like big dumb blockbuster movies I guess. That is not to say these Sony aaa titles are necessarily bad games, but they are lesser versions of themselves. To illustrate this I think mechanically Jak & Daxter is a much more mature game than the Last of Us despite the latter being much more mature thematically. I kinda prefer the former so thank the ancient ones for indie games.

 

[Jotaro]

the reason that games from the 6th gen era, and yeah even from the 7th era = ps3/x360/wiiu

were more creative was, devs werent that afraid to take risks and went going full creative, plus, the dlc/bug fix madness/patches etc excuse, wasn't there, especially in the ps2 era, back in the 00s, a game was complete, thats what matters, with its pros and cons, a game was complete, no patches, no dlc's, no incomplete builds. and other reasons, whats the point of having a 4k game with barely running at 30 fps, imbued with bugs and other game breaking glitches? lol

plus, almost no woke and sjw syndrome, these things didnt exist back there