Why Sony from the PS2 and PSP era felt different?

[Ikagura]

I didn't play a ton of Sony games but I loved how groundbreaking the PS2 felt yet I've noticed that in the second half of the PS3's life (followed by the PS4) Sony started to feel different.

It is not about the quality of their game but about the mood they had in their franchises, the UI and just the company by itself.

I know that things are evolving and changing constantly (as the 00's isn't the 2010's which themselves won't be like the 2020's) but this is the kind of shifting that we can still notice with the PS5 currently.

Similarly Nintendo changed with Iwata as the president and the Wii (being radically different from the N64/GC era in many aspects).

Someday I hope they'd remember who they are and bring a bit of that magic back.

 

[Yousef]

Perfect topic for me. There was something almost mystical about ps2/psp Sony. Like they were invincible or could do no wrong.
If you give me a library strictly composed of JUST 1st party Sony ps2/psp games, it would keep me engaged for months.

I’ve loved R&C, Jak, sly, parappa, ape escape, gow, the list would never end.

I’m even curious about Killzone, Wild Arms, Arc the Lad, prob won’t hurt to try.

GTA San Andreas was also briefly a ps2 timed exclusive, same with the other two GTAs before I believe.
I think I would love for them to artistically rule the industry again, but that specific era is probably not gonna come back but I’m grateful for the memories anyways.

 

[Waffles]

Yeah... a lot of late PlayStation games feel awfully bleak, and way too serious. It's almost as if having the likes of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon running around rainbow-colored worlds was suddenly an embarrassment for the company.

 

[Ikagura]

Perfect topic for me. There was something almost mystical about ps2/psp Sony. Like they were invincible or could do no wrong.
If you give me a library strictly composed of JUST 1st party Sony ps2/psp games, it would keep me engaged for months.

I'm feeling that the PS3 being sold at 600 was the first of a long list of issues regarding Sony (maybe they became overconfident after winning both the 5th and 6th gen so they did like Icarus from the mythos).

But early, pre-rebranding PS3 (aka the "Spiderman 3" era) still had elements of the PS2 in it.

Maybe the PS4 "This is for the Players" was when it definitely changed.

Yeah... a lot of late PlayStation games feel awfully bleak, and way too serious. It's almost as if having the likes of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon running around rainbow-colored worlds was suddenly an embarrassment for the company.

Yeah, it's weird how they also claim they "don't have any IP" yet show pictures full of characters and having a ton in Astro Bot.

 

[Waffles]

Yeah, it's weird how they also claim they "don't have any IP" yet show pictures full of characters and having a ton in Astro Bot.

That's very weird... I don't know what they are trying to accomplish by saying that. If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to re-release any of their old titles.

 

[Yousef]

I'm feeling that the PS3 being sold at 600 was the first of a long list of issues regarding Sony (maybe they became overconfident after winning both the 5th and 6th gen so they did like Icarus from the mythos).

But early, pre-rebranding PS3 (aka the "Spiderman 3" era) still had elements of the PS2 in it.

Maybe the PS4 "This is for the Players" was when it definitely changed.


Yeah, it's weird how they also claim they "don't have any IP" yet show pictures full of characters and having a ton in Astro Bot.

Gow 3, R&C and Killzones 2 & 3 showed Sony still cared about having an artistic iron grip. Variety was still key. There were even new IPs like inFamous (which was my jam) and heavenly sword (made by the same guys that made DmC dmc so I’d probably enjoy it)

 

[Gorse]

Two big reasons:

• During the time of the PS1, PS2, and PSP, Sony was still very much a conservative Japanese company making games primarily for a Japanese audience. American audiences were certainly a huge market, of course, but the Playstation's Eastern and Western teams weren't united like they are today. The people in charge of the brand were suit-wearing businessmen based out of Tokyo who gave directions to Sony of America (and Europe). These days, Sony's HQ is in California, and it's essentially a second-tier modern American technology business. This leads us to:

• The Playstation brand's success made it too big to ignore for AAA developers. If you were an American FPS developer making big-budget games for consoles, the PS2's install base was just too lucrative not to focus on by the year 2004 or so. That brought far more American devs to the brand, which brought far more money to Sony, so those people started having far more seats at the table, and here we are. By the time of seventh generation, the PS3 and Xbox 360 had essentially become variations on the same console.

You've gotta remember: Sony was a music technology company until about 1994. They were focused on making CDs and Walkmans and boomboxes, and nobody expected this 3D gaming bullshit to get as big as it did. (That's why a lot of PS1 games were spearheaded by musicians, and why CD games were so easy to get into for Sony.) Their ethos was completely different from a company like Nintendo, Sega, and later Microsoft, but it couldn't survive if they wanted to be a serious competitor in the gaming space, so they had to adapt. (Not, dare I say, for the better.)

 

[Ikagura]

Two big reasons:

• During the time of the PS1, PS2, and PSP, Sony was still very much a conservative Japanese company making games primarily for a Japanese audience. American audiences were certainly a huge market, of course, but the Playstation's Eastern and Western teams weren't united like they are today. The people in charge of the brand were suit-wearing businessmen based out of Tokyo who gave directions to Sony of America (and Europe). These days, Sony's HQ is in California, and it's essentially a second-tier modern American technology business. This leads us to:

• The Playstation brand's success made it too big to ignore for AAA developers. If you were an American FPS developer making big-budget games for consoles, the PS2's install base was just too lucrative not to focus on by the year 2004 or so. That brought far more American devs to the brand, which brought far more money to Sony, so those people started having far more seats at the table, and here we are. By the time of seventh generation, the PS3 and Xbox 360 had essentially become variations on the same console.

You've gotta remember: Sony was a music technology company until about 1994. They were focused on making CDs and Walkmans and boomboxes, and nobody expected this 3D gaming bullshit to get as big as it did. (That's why a lot of PS1 games were spearheaded by musicians, and why CD games were so easy to get into for Sony.) Their ethos was completely different from a company like Nintendo, Sega, and later Microsoft, but it couldn't survive if they wanted to be a serious competitor in the gaming space, so they had to adapt. (Not, dare I say, for the better.)

I'd even dare saying that the first two years weren't the best for 3D, most of the masterpieces came later on the hardware (as well as the N64 redefining how 3D games were made).

I can hardly count pre-Super Mario 64 3D games that aged that well (maybe Jumping Flash? It was still a really short game).

The westernisation of japanese media in the mid-to-late 00's was sadly detrimental but Japan was no longer economically expensive and while the 90's were fine the 00's has shown they couldn't sustain themselves like it.

 

[Gorse]

The westernisation of japanese media in the mid-to-late 00's was sadly detrimental

You could say the very same about what's happening today. AND I WILL, ENDLESSLY

 

[Ikagura]

You could say the very same about what's happening today. AND I WILL, ENDLESSLY

When I want a foreign product I don't want something that I already know.

Or else I'd simply play a game made in the US.

It's even worse for me as I am in Europe and European made video games are not that common (yes, it's technically "western" like the US but we also have technicalities that even Eastern Europe had cultural difference with Western EU).

I'd also say that most of the cultural impact of the US came from the West Coast which has a different mindset and the East one but this is more of a sociological analysis which I'm no expert in so I won't delve further in this way.

Sony should've kept their "Japanese-ness".

PS: With the PS5 Pro they also make themselves look like "Asian Apple" but not in a good way, I don't think 800+ for a video game console (and 70 for videogames) should be accepted.

 

[dropsmegamega]

It's a theme that is being brought up a lot in the 50th anniversary thread. This is solely from personal experience as a gamer, but I personally find it more of a general change in the market, the edgy 00's was extremely focused in the graphics race and microsoft joined the console market pushing those trends even further. Even with Sony trying to push for variety in the beginning of PS3 life, the real gamer TM was interested in the big realistic shooters and whatnot. And with the increased costs in game development it was either that or going full casual like nintendo did starting with the wii. I'd argue westernization happened to everyone either way, even nintendo franchises became extremely pixar-ized, it just took a bit longer on nintendo & portables because of reduced dev costs.

 

[Ikagura]

It's a theme that is being brought up a lot in the 50th anniversary thread. This is solely from personal experience as a gamer, but I personally find it more of a general change in the market, the edgy 00's was extremely focused in the graphics race and microsoft joined the console market pushing those trends even further. Even with Sony trying to push for variety in the beginning of PS3 life, the real gamer TM was interested in the big realistic shooters and whatnot. And with the increased costs in game development it was either that or going full casual like nintendo did starting with the wii. I'd argue westernization happened to everyone either way, even nintendo franchises became extremely pixar-ized, it just took a bit longer on nintendo & portables because of reduced dev costs.

I forgot to check that 30th anniversary thread.

And yeah, the 7th gen made devs do what appeal to the most...

 

[Ikagura]

Allow me to up that topic to show the Japanese ads from PS1-PS3 to show how things used to be

And how things drastically changed with the 4

 

[Yoru Momo]

You can thank mr Howard Stringer for that one.
He has single-handly architected Sony's downfall during his 7 year tenure as CEO (2005-2012).

He began the arms race against the Xbox in pursuit of PC ports at the expense of their own exclussives. He also set the absurd lunch prices of both vita and ps3.
Every decision he has made was influenced by the intrest of wallstreet, and set the downwards trajectory of the Sony which we love to hate today.
He took over in Sony's most successful peroid as company. Yet by the time he was laid off their stock was down by 60%, they were in massive debt and their consoles division was getting picked apart.
In fact his horrid regin at Sony is such a deep rabbit hole it deserves it's own multi part documentary.

So if you ever feel like modern Sony doesn't care about Japan or their games anymore, be sure to remember gaijin businessman who laid the roots.

 

[schir]

Yeah a lot of the change in how Sony felt came from their changing business leadership. The western-led leadership Yoru Momo described continued until last year when Jim Ryan was ousted and SIE split itself up a bit internally. I would expect to see more of a return to form in the coming years, or at least a different feeling than they've had for a while.

 

[Sayo]

Because they moved their headquarters to America and completely abandoned everything that made them into what they are as well as neglecting all their formerly popular eastern and western franchises in favor of cinematic slop aimed at non-gamers.

 

[Stingy Perry]

That era for me was what defines the what might have been the future of gaming in whole but it went kinda off after that.

 

[Leon]

Probably already been said but at the time sony was ran by the japanese branch of the company, however after the initial bad sales of the ps3 they pivoted to the west and started closing down their japanese studios, sony is now a shell of it's former self, most of it's japanese gaming divisions shut down.

 

[ShinnAsukaYESTaylorSwiftNO]

Because they moved their headquarters to America and completely abandoned everything that made them into what they are as well as neglecting all their formerly popular eastern and western franchises in favor of cinematic slop aimed at non-gamers.

This.
The PSP was the last good Sony console imo.

 

[RashFaustinho]

Honestly, I think that Sony has been good up to the PS4 gen.

Yes, there were some hiccups, like the management of VITA or the first half of PS3, but generally speaking, it was a great gaming company, which gave me great games of all genres....

Until PS5 came out, and now I'm loathing Sony with burning passion.
Truth be told, the first signs of things going downhill were present towards the end of PS4 era, but I still love that console.

 

[Sayo]

This.
The PSP was the last good Sony console imo.

It certainly was the last truly great one, the Vita could've been so much more if it hadn't been so woefully neglected.

 

[ThirdEidolon]

I didn't play a ton of Sony games but I loved how groundbreaking the PS2 felt yet I've noticed that in the second half of the PS3's life (followed by the PS4) Sony started to feel different.

It is not about the quality of their game but about the mood they had in their franchises, the UI and just the company by itself.

I know that things are evolving and changing constantly (as the 00's isn't the 2010's which themselves won't be like the 2020's) but this is the kind of shifting that we can still notice with the PS5 currently.

Similarly Nintendo changed with Iwata as the president and the Wii (being radically different from the N64/GC era in many aspects).

Someday I hope they'd remember who they are and bring a bit of that magic back.

Getting rid of Japan Studios definitely didn't help. They were a driving force behind a lot more the more experimental titles in the ps2 and ps3 era. Losing them created a gap.

 

[Cu-Neo]

For me it was because games were cheap to make. So cheap in fact than a lot of companies released trillions of shovelware during the six generation. And also the limitations of the consoles left room for more creativity to optimize and translate their ideas to the games for example the fog in silent hill 1 it was made because the world couldn't be render immediately so they added it as a solution. And also the metacritic score wasn't that important before now that thing dictates to triple A studios what IP survives and which on doesn't. So yeah there's a lot of factors at the end. As my brother said one time "with less they used to do more. Now they have more and do less"

 

[ThirdEidolon]

For me it was because games were cheap to make. So cheap in fact than a lot of companies released trillions of shovelware during the six generation. And also the limitations of the consoles left room for more creativity to optimize and translate their ideas to the games for example the fog in silent hill 1 it was made because the world couldn't be render immediately so they added it as a solution. And also the metacritic score wasn't that important before now that thing dictates to triple A studios what IP survives and which on doesn't. So yeah there's a lot of factors at the end. As my brother said one time "with less they used to do more. Now they have more and do less"

Amy Hennig mentioned this like ten years ago.

She talked about how games were easier to develop for, more sustainable and didn't cost millions of dollars to make. They could be more experimental, because it wasn't like the entire studio's reputation was riding on just the one game.

 

[ZeraX7]

They weren't focused on making a "Halo-Killer" like in PS3 era so they made more creative games