Thoughts on repro games for legacy systems

[Sumea]

To be fair when I used to buy games for my Mega Drive I bought a few repro games off AliExpress, so for example I weren't prepared to pay through the nose for a legit copy of Ristar so I paid £13 for a repro copy, got a few others too for example Sonic 3 as I wanted the NTSC-U version and not PAL so with it being a region locked game and expensive I just got that, only thing is it doesn't work with S&K.

Fun fact:
If you get (any version) of sonic and knuckles, it makes (any version) of Sonic 3 region free. They made S&K region free because it was cheaper to produce that cartridge as one size fits all regions. Only difference is the sticker in Japan. I used to own the whole series on Japanese cartridges, had a switch modded PAL mega drive, and even had EUR Sonic 2 CiB in VERY mint condition and japanese Sonic 1 with bad pal one too. S&K also makes it easier to get to the sound menu etc.

 

[MegaDrive1987]

Fun fact:
If you get (any version) of sonic and knuckles, it makes (any version) of Sonic 3 region free. They made S&K region free because it was cheaper to produce that cartridge as one size fits all regions. Only difference is the sticker in Japan. I used to own the whole series on Japanese cartridges, had a switch modded PAL mega drive, and even had EUR Sonic 2 CiB in VERY mint condition and japanese Sonic 1 with bad pal one too. S&K also makes it easier to get to the sound menu etc.

Oh yeah I knew that I just wanted an actual standalone NTSC copy of S3 but little did I know it wouldn't work with S&K although I had an idea it wouldn't to be honest.

 

[Sumea]

Oh yeah I knew that I just wanted an actual standalone NTSC copy of S3 but little did I know it wouldn't work with S&K although I had an idea it wouldn't to be honest.

Yeah. You can likely get a cheap Japanese cartridge only or such and genuine one would work with S&K making it region free. Also switch modding a MD is not hard, though requires a soldering iron.

 

[MegaDrive1987]

Yeah. You can likely get a cheap Japanese cartridge only or such and genuine one would work with S&K making it region free. Also switch modding a MD is not hard, though requires a soldering iron.

My Mega Drive is switchless modded with a widened cartridge slot to accept Japanese games. I just emulate now though.

 

[Sumea]

My Mega Drive is switchless modded with a widened cartridge slot to accept Japanese games. I just emulate now though.

Same. I sold my real mega drive stuff in a package in 202X since money situation was dire, and I could emulate. I kept one genuine Japanese 6 button pad and got an 8bitdo modkit PCB to make it into a wireless BT pad that is compatible with PC Switch etc. Helpful to enjoy MD emulation.

 

[MegaDrive1987]

Same. I sold my real mega drive stuff in a package in 202X since money situation was dire, and I could emulate. I kept one genuine Japanese 6 button pad and got an 8bitdo modkit PCB to make it into a wireless BT pad that is compatible with PC Switch etc. Helpful to enjoy MD emulation.

I ended up buying myself 2 official Mega Drive USB controllers to go with emulation, two Saturn ones too.

 

[Sumea]

I ended up buying myself 2 official Mega Drive USB controllers to go with emulation, two Saturn ones too.

yeah. in most minds the saturn ones would have sufficed.
I actually have one official sammy USB pad from 200X. Bought a retro bit one to replace tarnished rubber membranes and otherwise throw in trash like corner of my closet.

 

[Princess Viola]

I don't mind repro games so long as the seller ain't trying to pass them off as legit copies. That's scummy and scammy to me.

 

[YuriSukiSan]

Like everyone else has said, as long as they are clearly labeled? I really don't mind.

I understand certain game developers might dislike it but I think John Carmac has the right idea about this, after a certain point the developers aren't even getting the money. I would much rather that game media is preserved and easily accessible than the IP locked behind a paywall for some greedy corporation that doesn't care for the product. It's bad enough when they adulerate the original and completely bastardize it, I wouldn't want it to be potentially lost.

It's important to me that future generations get to experience them.

 

[Sumea]

I don't mind repro games so long as the seller ain't trying to pass them off as legit copies. That's scummy and scammy to me.

Yeah. Only thing I added is that it makes less sense for discs than cartridges.

 

[Spiral1407]

It is true. I bought a cartridge 369 in 1 for the GBA because these cartridges are reflasheable and this one was big for its price. I think it costed me around 9€ and it contains 256MB to place the roms. I also bought the GBA flasher for around 20€ and it's been something fun. I didn't experience problems with the few games I tried, even doing the multirom thing.

Back in the PS2 era, there were lots of problems reading DVD±R, but most of them were due to the specific lens SPU-3170, whose manufacturer was Philips. The original lens in Slim 7000x was the PVR-802W, which was made by Sony itself, and it worked wonderfully even with low quality burned DVD's, although it was not recommended to use them. But for some reason, in some regions the 7000x was also shipped with the SPU-3170 and then many problems arose, even with original discs. Even knowing it, PS2 revisions until 75000 were keeping the same lens combo until Sony got rid of the bad one in favour of theirs. There was only one change when they produced the new lens for the 9000x, the manufacturing place. In my humble opinion, they did the right choice as 9000x lens TDP-182W is the best one of all, although the quality of the PVR-802W is close. For fat PS2 there were not as many problems as with the slims, so I didn't work with them too much. I only know the best lens is the KHS-400R from the 3900x model.

There's also the mechacon crash which can straight up kill your disc drive if you use burned discs (or even scratched official ones). I had a huge problem with my copy of Jak 3 back when I had a 7000x.

 

[MajesticSiN]

More of a continuation really

 

[nobitakun]

There's also the mechacon crash which can straight up kill your disc drive if you use burned discs (or even scratched official ones). I had a huge problem with my copy of Jak 3 back when I had a 7000x.

Luckily I never had one PS2 with that issue. I don't think it was very common, and the fix is very troublesome. If I had such a case now, I would recommend to just use other methods of loading games. Back then the only solution was to replace the console or get a new lens and risk to happen again.

 

[Spiral1407]

Luckily I never had one PS2 with that issue. I don't think it was very common, and the fix is very troublesome. If I had such a case now, I would recommend to just use other methods of loading games. Back then the only solution was to replace the console or get a new lens and risk to happen again.

Afaik it's pretty common on the 5000x and 7000x, with it being fixed with the 7500x. The 3900x can also get it but its a lot more rare.

Luckily I have a 3900x now and the only burned discs I use are PS1 games, so I haven't had it happen yet.

 

[Sumea]

Afaik it's pretty common on the 5000x and 7000x, with it being fixed with the 7500x. The 3900x can also get it but its a lot more rare.

Luckily I have a 3900x now and the only burned discs I use are PS1 games, so I haven't had it happen yet.

Yeah, this is what I was referring to in my post. It apparently blows up some capacitors or such in the laser when it happens. Burned discs indeed are also just unfriendly to most PS2 models up to that 7000 which is why DVD-R's are a problem compared to officially pressed DVD's. PS2 was not engineered to handle -R or +R media. Later Slim models are, specifically so because they wanted it to be a good companion to their new home cameras that burned / exported to DVD-R/+R. Or, so the legend goes. These models indeed are pretty good with burned discs as I tested on my fresh new 90000, while i assume I have one of those 70000's with a matrix modchip no less that likely had a mechacon crash and burn. Stopped reading discs entirely and made me go WTH pretty hard until this info was taught to me by mechapwn github page making me add 2+2 together. Minus one that's three. PS2's that I have.

 

[nobitakun]

It might have been an issue related to specific regions, because if it is that common and I've never seen it after handling at least 20 PS2's, that is rare.

But I can confirm 3900x didn't like DVD±R, because I had one and even calibrating the potentiometer with a multimeter to have optimal ohms, it refused to read most of them and only accepted Intenso DVD-R discs. 5000x's are good, and I've seen issues only with the disc tray. The only consoles I've seen to stop reading discs were the ones coming with the SPU-3170 lens.

I've never used low quality discs and everything only Verbatim, Intenso, Memorex & Ritek (Taiyo Yuden dye) and the Taiyo Yuden themselves (JVC). Even Sony discs were a hit and miss. Everytime I used to buy discs I demanded to know the dye before buying and return them if they were not as advertised.

But people insisted on keep using low quality Princo's, MediaRange or TDK. Even HP and Sony had low quality rebranded discs. Just to save 30 cents a disc, it's never been worth it.

 

[PhaseJump]

These days you can just patch images and burn off self booting backup discs using the freedvdboot exploit, and they will run without FMCB, swapping, mod chips, firmware changes, etc.

Not all PS2s can run them, but a lot of Fat consoles and most Slim models can. If I were bootlegging shit, I'd probably go that route.

 

[NeonKnights]

I think they're great for those that don't want to pay 600+ or more for a basic copy of "Rule of Rose" or "Kuon", as long as it's indicated it's a repro. I was looking to get a genuine copy of Silent Hill (PS1) a while back and just the disc is so expensive I'm looking into Picostation modding now. I predict a normal copy of NTSC-U/C "Rule of Rose" without the manual will hit a thousand or more soon. Personally I refuse to ever buy games for the PS2 or GameCube outside of certain very specific circumstances. The prices for these games are far too high now. I have a Picoboot modded GameCube and an SSD in my PS2 at the moment and I won't be buying games until the prices come down, though I expect they never will.

 

[Sonic Boomer]

This is a very important topic for me so let me break it down as best as I can.

I am all for repros, as long as they're not being passed off as originals or sold as originals by greedy resllers.

With that said, believe it or not I value my bootleg and repro library of cartridges as much as my huge original game library, however this only applies for cartridge based games and not discs because in my experience my old childhood bootleg carts still work where as my bootleg discs for the most part don't work anymore.

Now the reason I value my bootlegs so much is because I come form Macedonia, a country that THRIVED on piracy, a county where piracy was just the regular way of obtaining games for decades and thanks to piracy we were never behind on entertainment, be it movies, music, gaming or software.

Not only do I value my old Famiclone bootlegs

I value the new ones I get from ali express just as much.

From Mega Drive and Famiclone, to PS1, PS2, DC, we had it all when I was growing up, so to me, there's nothing wrong with unoriginal games at all in my book.

But repros are ESPECIALLY fascinating when they are cartridges of games not available in your region or fan translations of Japanese games

Old or new, it's downright irrelevant to me, they're amazing.
unlicensed games, fan translations, all kinds of great experiences all in actual cartridge form.

New repros of more Surreal games are increidble too, there are some very sturdy, very well made ali express repros that don't even cost all that much of highly obscure titles

I put just as much sentimental value in old bootlegs as modern ali express ones, because the new ones will also eveentually disappear and be hard to find, people are largely forgetting gaming as a whole.

Interest in retro gaming, surreal games, obscure lost games, unlicensed titles is decreasing.
New generations rarely care about these things, they mean little to nothing to the average person. Even on ali express I see most stores don't have many of the bootlegs they had years ago anymore.

Sure you can order custom stuff to be made in some sotres but even so.

With that said, I own hundreds upon hundreds of legit original games too, I don't mix my bootlegs and repros with those, but I love and play them all regadless.

 

[seaglass]

This is a very important topic for me so let me break it down as best as I can.

I am all for repros, as long as they're not being passed off as originals or sold as originals by greedy resllers.

With that said, believe it or not I value my bootleg and repro library of cartridges as much as my huge original game library, however this only applies for cartridge based games and not discs because in my experience my old childhood bootleg carts still work where as my bootleg discs for the most part don't work anymore.

Now the reason I value my bootlegs so much is because I come form Macedonia, a country that THRIVED on piracy, a county where piracy was just the regular way of obtaining games for decades and thanks to piracy we were never behind on entertainment, be it movies, music, gaming or software.

Not only do I value my old Famiclone bootlegs
View attachment 171166

I value the new ones I get from ali express just as much.

From Mega Drive and Famiclone, to PS1, PS2, DC, we had it all when I was growing up, so to me, there's nothing wrong with unoriginal games at all in my book.

But repros are ESPECIALLY fascinating when they are cartridges of games not available in your region or fan translations of Japanese games
View attachment 171167
View attachment 171168

Old or new, it's downright irrelevant to me, they're amazing.
unlicensed games, fan translations, all kinds of great experiences all in actual cartridge form.

New repros of more Surreal games are increidble too, there are some very sturdy, very well made ali express repros that don't even cost all that much of highly obscure titles

View attachment 171170

View attachment 171171

I put just as much sentimental value in old bootlegs as modern ali express ones, because the new ones will also eveentually disappear and be hard to find, people are largely forgetting gaming as a whole.

Interest in retro gaming, surreal games, obscure lost games, unlicensed titles is decreasing.
New generations rarely care about these things, they mean little to nothing to the average person. Even on ali express I see most stores don't have many of the bootlegs they had years ago anymore.

Sure you can order custom stuff to be made in some sotres but even so.

With that said, I own hundreds upon hundreds of legit original games too, I don't mix my bootlegs and repros with those, but I love and play them all regadless.

Do you make YouTube videos? I saw one recently on that Panda World game and the shot with the Matryoshka doll looks familiar

 

[Sonic Boomer]

Do you make YouTube videos? I saw one recently on that Panda World game and the shot with the Matryoshka doll looks familiar

That guy? Gaming Pal Ollie? Screw him he is a poser and a fraud and he knows nothing about gaming! :D


yeah it's from my videos, same with QBoy lol
I just use my videos to post pictures off these days because I'm too lazy to post take separate pics, the famiclone one is also from an old video i made in 2024 on games I associate with the Christmas holidays

 

[seaglass]

That guy? Gaming Pal Ollie? Screw him he is a poser and a fraud and he knows nothing about gaming! :D


yeah it's from my videos, same with QBoy lol
I just use my videos to post pictures off these days because I'm too lazy to post take separate pics, the famiclone one is also from an old video i made in 2024 on games I associate with the Christmas holidays

That's awesome! What a coincidence. I just checked and I'm actually subscribed to you. Your videos are really high quality, I can tell you have a lot of love for the subject matter. Keep up the good work brother!

 

[Sonic Boomer]

That's awesome! What a coincidence. I just checked and I'm actually subscribed to you. Your videos are really high quality, I can tell you have a lot of love for the subject matter. Keep up the good work brother!

Thanks man
I actually made a topic about the channel on here once when it wasn't doing so hot and then it just kinda started doing much better which is crazy.
Now it's exactly where I want it to be, I can moentize even but I don't want to, I'm fine the way it is, so I don't have to upload regularly and stuff.

I'm editing a video on another unlicensed game now

This one probably won't get more than 400-500 views but I am ok with that given it's not a popular game outside of Bootleg Game and Unlicensed game circles.

Hopefully the review will be out by Wednesday, I have it all recorded I just need to put it all together.