The Existence of Turn "BASED" Systems, implies that of a Turn "CRINGE" System.

[DinoRexMax]

YEAH! I LOVE TURN BASED COMBAT!!! I LOVE CAREFULLY PLOTTING OUT MY MOVE AND AUTISTICALLY OPTIMIZING MY CREW TO THE LAST DETAIL!!! I WANNA PLAY SOME BORING STORY JUST TO COLLECT AS MANY VARIABLES AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO COORDINATE THEM INTO A METICULOUS FIGHTING FOR FOR ONLY GOD KNOWS WHAT!!

Okay, joke over. I like turn based games a lot. I also like Character Action, Beat 'em Ups, and Fighting games as well. Mostly I just like to press as many buttons in sequence as humanly possible, as if I were some sort of chimpanzee. Now, turn based games have seen a sizable resurgence over the years, Expedition 33 beat out Kingdom Come at the Game Awards, Atlus released their first non-SMT related game in decades (a turn based RPG), Indie RPGS like OMORI, Fear & Hunger, and Look Outside get a lot of attention, Mario & Luigi bounced back with brothership, Square Enix actually making TRPGs again, Digimon Story getting to live another day, and probably a host of other great things that bode well for the future of this methodology.

HOWEVER

The damage has already been done. And the stigma against Turn-Based games has burned a number of franchises into wallowing as mediocre "real-time" games for all time. Fallout, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Paper Mario, and surely a host of other games that got rinsed of all their complexity to fall in line with ilk of Kingdom Hearts (mash Square to continue reading).

Now, I would hate it if every game in the world was an RPG, that would be boring. But the opposite is true, in that slower games deserve to exist as well (like Puzzle, or Adventure games).

I understand it might not be for everyone, but the complaints against RPGs (other thant their individual narrative tropes, though, feel free to bitch about RPG plots you hate the most) are inherently banal. It all boils down to the fact that they're slower, but that's the entire point. Let me breath and take my time instead panicking as I'm mashed into the corner by some trigger happy sociopaths infinite combo string.

So what was it that made everybody collectively turn against RPGs for so long? It used to be somewhat of an event when a game got converted to an RPG (SMRPG, MMX: Command Mission) as it would feel like an oppurtunity to be able to explore those worlds and stories you normally blast through in split seconds.

Fighting games had a similar Dark Age due to the fall of the Arcade scene (Capcom even dissolving their Fighting game division before rebuilding it for SFIV). And while they got simpler, they never quite got "converted" like RPGs did.

 

[jon2]

So what was it that made everybody collectively turn against RPGs for so long?

Cinematics

And the abundance of "games" (in quotes as they were absolute shit when compared to good games)

The improvement of CGI meant that devs can improve cutscenes, to the point that it looks like a movie; and the PS2 era was the zenith of these (lots of games from that time were immortalized in memories and memes) cuz it was the last days of people willing to forgo and work around (in games) the limitation of the consoles while devs pushed the capabilities of those consoles to the limit. Even Hideo Kojima wasn't immune to this trend, to his detriment

After that came the PS3 era, which plateaued as more and more people flocked to VG, even those not suited for it (basically short attention spans, poor hand-eye coordination, impulsive judgment and most importantly: a inflated assessment of one's capabilities). From then on, devs have to dumb down games a lot to retain the "new blood" while the new 'uns got this increasingly heightened levels of expectations (basically a flawed belief of "things will get better")

Then came the dumb games and failed expectations era, which Frank Herbert (author of Dune) eerily predicted the behavior of game producers way back in 1985 in his book Eye. Then here we are today

P.S.

The Existence of Turn "BASED" Systems, implies that of a Turn "CRINGE" System.​

For those not in the know, before an idiot made the word 'based' into something trendy and memetic, its root word 'base' meant something crass, low and unworthy (it's like making the word 'shit' into something good and awesome); or to put it into the immortal words of Gunny Hartman:

 

[CheesyExplosive]

This is why i choose action rpg... see ya on the pso and mhw side.

 

[χKai]

Fallout 3 has a turn cringe system
You can go from a baby, to a kid, to a teenager, to an adult, to blowing up poor people and becoming a mass murderer, sell children into slavery, and kidnap a baby.

And that's only the beginning.

 

[Sorion]

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I'll put my hand up as still enjoying turn-based RPGs quite a bit.

 

[moonbits]

YIIK: A Turn Cringe RPG

 

[BrawlMan]

I'm not into the genre, but the stigma is nowhere near as big as it used to be. Especially when indie games and smaller developers keep making them, and they're all selling fine. I do notice stigma came from know nothing know at all critics and people who didn't like anything Japanese back in the mid to late 2000s. A lot of japanese developers were having trouble adapting to h d and staying well financially, so that didn't help either. Those who were against traditional japanese r p g's got more arrogant about it. The joke was on those assholes, as Japanese games made a comeback as to around the eighth generation of consoles. E33 is a straight up old school rpg and became its success everywhere. Persona it's still a thing too.

the word 'based' into something trendy and memetic, its root word 'base' meant something crass, low and unworthy (it's like making the word 'shit' into something good and awesome); or to put it into the immortal words of Gunny

Exactly why I don't use the modern variations of that stuff. It already sounded lame, and it was just made by some guy trying to think they were cool when they were just another annoying dork.

 

[MisterHiggins]

IMO, Turn Based Video Games, are a relic of lost 8bit computer games that just did not support graphics in any meaningful way. There was a reason Nintendo did not import many of the jRPG of the FamiCom to NA. I, personally, never was a huge fan of turn based (video) games outside of text games, even then I have my limits on them.

Makes me think of Legend of the Red Dragon. In its day, it was awesome!! But today, especially given the how and why most people used to play it, it's an antique that most people will not get to experience in any meaningful way today. Much like trying to play a dead MMO.

 

[Advil Lavs]

I love turn-cringe role-playing games!!!

 

[hardcoretyphoon hardcoretyphoon]

This!!! I hate that the industry sees turned based battles as some sort of limitation of old games that needs to be done away with. Games like Dragon Quest were deliberately designed they way they were because thats what worked. Yuji Horii didn't just say "man i would have made this an action game but the hardware didnt allow for it", preposterious!! Zelda and The Tower of Druaga already existed. I think a big part of the RPG hate is RPGs slow start in the west, and the RPGs that did become popular in the west being ones that don't require the player to interact with their mechanics as much. I totally get why someone wouldnt like turn based rpgs, but we all have our opinions. Where it gets me is when people act like traditional JRPGs are this antiquated concept we need to move on from

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

So what was it that made everybody collectively turn against RPGs for so long? It used to be somewhat of an event when a game got converted to an RPG (SMRPG, MMX: Command Mission) as it would feel like an oppurtunity to be able to explore those worlds and stories you normally blast through in split seconds.

I mean in all honesty its a case of

The damage has already been done. And the stigma against Turn-Based games has burned a number of franchises into wallowing as mediocre "real-time" games for all time. Fallout, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Paper Mario, and surely a host of other games that got rinsed of all their complexity to fall in line with ilk of Kingdom Hearts (mash Square to continue reading).

I don't really think Pokemon belongs here since the mainline games are still turn based and it's likely the next games will be too. It's only Legends and those are treated like a sub series, and even then Legends Arceus was turn based, Z-A is the only real exception. Now if they remake Pokemon Black & White and that's an action RPG, then we'll have a real concern.

 

[Ikagura]

What about "Turn Acid System"?

 

[Leon]

View attachment 141404

YEAH! I LOVE TURN BASED COMBAT!!! I LOVE CAREFULLY PLOTTING OUT MY MOVE AND AUTISTICALLY OPTIMIZING MY CREW TO THE LAST DETAIL!!! I WANNA PLAY SOME BORING STORY JUST TO COLLECT AS MANY VARIABLES AS POSSIBLE, IN ORDER TO COORDINATE THEM INTO A METICULOUS FIGHTING FOR FOR ONLY GOD KNOWS WHAT!!

Okay, joke over. I like turn based games a lot. I also like Character Action, Beat 'em Ups, and Fighting games as well. Mostly I just like to press as many buttons in sequence as humanly possible, as if I were some sort of chimpanzee. Now, turn based games have seen a sizable resurgence over the years, Expedition 33 beat out Kingdom Come at the Game Awards, Atlus released their first non-SMT related game in decades (a turn based RPG), Indie RPGS like OMORI, Fear & Hunger, and Look Outside get a lot of attention, Mario & Luigi bounced back with brothership, Square Enix actually making TRPGs again, Digimon Story getting to live another day, and probably a host of other great things that bode well for the future of this methodology.

HOWEVER

The damage has already been done. And the stigma against Turn-Based games has burned a number of franchises into wallowing as mediocre "real-time" games for all time. Fallout, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Paper Mario, and surely a host of other games that got rinsed of all their complexity to fall in line with ilk of Kingdom Hearts (mash Square to continue reading).

Now, I would hate it if every game in the world was an RPG, that would be boring. But the opposite is true, in that slower games deserve to exist as well (like Puzzle, or Adventure games).

I understand it might not be for everyone, but the complaints against RPGs (other thant their individual narrative tropes, though, feel free to bitch about RPG plots you hate the most) are inherently banal. It all boils down to the fact that they're slower, but that's the entire point. Let me breath and take my time instead panicking as I'm mashed into the corner by some trigger happy sociopaths infinite combo string.

So what was it that made everybody collectively turn against RPGs for so long? It used to be somewhat of an event when a game got converted to an RPG (SMRPG, MMX: Command Mission) as it would feel like an oppurtunity to be able to explore those worlds and stories you normally blast through in split seconds.

Fighting games had a similar Dark Age due to the fall of the Arcade scene (Capcom even dissolving their Fighting game division before rebuilding it for SFIV). And while they got simpler, they never quite got "converted" like RPGs did.

Fallout ended up the way it did because of bethesda, not because of turn based combat.

Final Fantasy had people begging nomura to use the old style and he told them to go eff themselves essentially, so this one wasn't natural, nomura intentionally screwed up the remake and i can't stand the game's for it.

Pokemon has been a disaster ever since x and y, turn based combat is the least of the problems with the series.

And i can't speak about paper mario as the only mario rpg i've played is super mario rpg.

What caused the dark age of turn based rpg's was the rise of the FPS genre, final fantasy 13 and tetsuya nomura's essentially crushing turn based combat as much as he could in square enix, this caused a "stigma" to be born on the genre that's only now starting to collapse due to the success of series like octopath traveler and clair obscure, though i think the ones that really saved it were the ones that never stopped making turn based rpg's, falcom with the legend of heroes series, atlus with it's shin megami tensei series, namely persona and koei tecmo with it's atelier series.

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

What about "Turn Acid System"?

Turn Based with Acid Pop music would be fire asl

 

[solnK!]

Dunno dude, turn based RPG's are one of my favorite videogames genres ever

 

[stinkerdoo]

Maybe I never truly enjoyed what makes turn-based games fun for other people, but I used to play a lot of turn-based games, and it was actually the complexity of newer games that made me stop playing them.

I put many hours into the first couple generations of Pokemon, Paper Mario, Earthbound, Golden Sun, also few tactics games like Advance Wars and FFTactics. Once games started having practically infinite space for anything the devs wanted to add, they just got too confusing. I feel like so many games had to have like 5 different types of potions, different sizes for each potion, 8 different elemental weapons you had to make an entire build around, 20 stats you needed to level up, with 6 playable characters all at once. More items = more good!!! My brain can not compute all of this information no matter how much time I'm given.

I also think the mass commercialization of games made the stories less memorable. I don't think this is an insane thing to say on a retro games forum, but video games were truly just built different pre-7th gen. Video games had to be weird and stand out from the competition because the alternative was another potential market crash. Once the industry realized that video games were here to stay, they also realized that they could just pump out as much "lowest common denominator" stuff as they wanted; it's likely to be bought by someone.

Why would I buy another turn-based "you're in a medieval town and you use magic to defeat the evil goblins" RPG slop game when I could buy like 10 indie games for the same price? Since the release of games like Undertale, Pit People, Hylics, and a bunch of other indie gems, I think many gamers realized that turn-based games can be so much more than just stat simulators. But now long-running series like FF are kinda stuck with their temporary solution/subversion because of other turn-based games being too bloated.

Again, maybe I just didn't enjoy turn-based games for the right reasons. I'm perfectly fine with games being grindy and simplistic. It's definitely a flaw, but I'd rather have a little grind than an overwhelming amount of content.

 

[χKai]

Dunno dude, turn based RPG's are one of my favorite videogames genres ever

A genre with probably more spoofs than any other genre in video games

 

[BrawlMan]

Since the release of games like Undertale, Pit People, Hylics, and a bunch of other indie gems, I think many gamers realized that turn-based games can be so much more than just stat simulators.

Pretty much what I mentioned earlier.

But now long-running series like FF are kinda stuck with their temporary solution/subversion because of other turn-based games being too bloated.

Square's got Bravely Default, Octopath Traveller, Live A Live Remake, several Dragon Quest Remakes, Final Fantasy Tactics and few other recently released titles I can't think of at the moment that traditional turn based games that are doing great. Square's other main problem, is they jump on any trend that screws them over or is part of the grift. They jumped on 'live services', crypto, and now AI. None of it which has worked out or loss them more money. They also tend to hit the panic button for either no reason, or because they went over budget for their larger titles. This is the same company that was shocked in the mid 2010s that Bravely Default sold well, because they under the assumption that "no one plays Turn Based RPGs anymore". I stopped caring for them years ago, but I always knew that was bull. Especially when plenty of them came out on DS and 3DS, not to mention the amount already available on Steam.

 

[Mago]

If turn based gameplay is outdated does that mean chess is outdated?

I honestly think the problem is that a lot of Jrpgs have a tendency to treat gameplay almost as if its filler. Turn based gameplay imo needs to be all about strategy because just clicking through menus isnt inherently that much fun to me, its the trying to plan out my best course of action thats fun. Also I personally like being forced to strategize and being able to grind and over level tends to go against that.

But yeah the idea that turn based gameplay is inherently outdated is supremely idiotic and anyone who thinks that probably shouldn't be taken too seriously.

 

[BrawlMan]

But yeah the idea that turn based gameplay is inherently outdated is supremely idiotic and anyone who thinks that probably shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Unfortunately, that was the case for a lot of seventh generation. Certain people in the gaming audience actually took it at face value with critics who were saying this dumb crap, Western AAA publishers like BioWare (really hypocritical on their part) or some dumb egotistical indie devs like Phil Fish. That ass hat quit after making only one game because you couldn't handle criticism that he dished out. I know he apologized for it years later, but he didn't so quietly that almost nobody noticed. Compared to as loud, boastful, and egotistical self.

 

[Ikagura]

But yeah the idea that turn based gameplay is inherently outdated is supremely idiotic and anyone who thinks that probably shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Like saying that FPS replaced Rail Shooters and shmups in general or that Open World replaced the Action/Adventure genre as a whole.

 

[BrawlMan]

Like saying that FPS replaced Rail Shooters and shmups in general or that Open World replaced the Action/Adventure genre as a whole.

Notice how it's almost always critics or game devs/publishers from the West/USA making these constant claims or stating something is dead when it wasn't to begin with? It's only 'dead' to them because it either doesn't make all the money in the universe or doesn't tickle whatever biased fancies they have thinking their gaming choices are better than everybody else's, or the only ones that truly matters.

 

[sandogma sandogma]

I love turn based games, and I also love action games. One is not objectively better than the other because they are not directly comparable. People are welcome to their opinions but those opinions are entirely subjective and should be taken as such.