Should you continue consuming content from someone you found out was canceled?

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

Yea but Eddie is still seen and recognized as a hall of famer and still gets mentioned Chris not so much

That's fair, but as someone who's big on media preservation Eddie's matches still deserved to be accessible. (Which they could be now, I admittedly haven't kept up with it)

 

[antii antii]

That's fair, but as someone who's big on media preservation Eddie's matches still deserved to be accessible. (Which they could be now, I admittedly haven't kept up with it)

Modern Day Wrestling is fucking amazing so much good talent on each roster def gotta get back into Jey Uso just won the royal rumble

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

Modern Day Wrestling is fucking amazing so much good talent on each roster def gotta get back into Jey Uso just won the royal rumble

I've heard good things, I'm just drowning in so much backlogged media already. Send help please.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

I remember watching Chris Benoit matches and him being an internet darling in the 90's. I have a hard time believing he did what he did. He seemed to be nice to the fans. I blame the unprotected chairshots, steroids and drug use in wrestling during that era.

 

[antii antii]

I remember watching Chris Benoit matches and him being an internet darling in the 90's. I have a hard time believing he did what he did. I blame the unprotected chairshots, steroids and drug use in wrestling.

Yeah it’s a shitty situation but his actions were awful. I never grew up with 90s wrestling I only got watch the attitude era and New Generation Era on my cousins ps2 with bootleg disc ? I grew up with Ruthless Aggression and PG era and the reality era

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

I remember watching Chris Benoit matches and him being an internet darling in the 90's. I have a hard time believing he did what he did. He seemed to be nice to the fans. I blame the unprotected chairshots, steroids and drug use in wrestling during that era.

It really seemed to come out of left field, at least from a fan perspective. I guess, as an outsider, you never really know about these things until they happen.

 

[Ian Naxieas]

Canceling is nothing new, it's just far more easy and prevalent when you're anonymous people over the internet. Frontier justice, witch hunts, whatever you want to call it will always be part of human society. Obviously, canceling someone on social media isn't as bad as hanging them or something though. x)

I don't like canceling in general because it's far more often wrong than it is right. The most egregious example I can think of is with Conor Daly. He's some racing man thing dude, I don't know, I don't watch that kind of stuff. I do know some bullshit happened though.

"Before the race, it was announced that Lilly would not be sponsoring Daly in the race when it was discovered that his father Derek had used a racial slur during an interview in the 1980s."

Seriously? I don't believe it went further than a lost sponsorship for a single race, but it shouldn't have happened at all. People don't think with their heads as much as they should and are too easily swayed by getting upset at something and making rash decisions in the moment. I'm sure everyone here is guilty of it too, myself included, just not to the degree of canceling someone.

All that said, there are times I can't say I feel too bad about actual scumbags getting their lives flipped upside down over their actions. The sad thing is that only rarely consequences for their actions pop up. You can be a white supremacist piece of shit, but you can't be jailed for it, sadly, and you'll always have an audience who'll either not care or be totally into that. I've seen it many times in the furry fandom, where total verifiable pieces of trash are still popular because they have a cute suit or are an established artist or something.

I guess that leads to the question asked. Honestly? I don't know. Lovecraft was a racist piece of shit, but I still love Lovecraftian horror and some of his work. On the other hand, I will not touch anything with Tom Cruise in it because he's a disgusting Scientology cultist. Yet it doesn't bother me as much that John Travolta is also a Scientologist. I have a very hard time separating the art from the artist, but sometimes I don't. Ultimately, I just don't have a solid answer. I guess it depends on the person and what they're guilty of.

TL;DR Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones.

 

[cjl8336]

Canceling is nothing new, it's just far more easy and prevalent when you're anonymous people over the internet. Frontier justice, witch hunts, whatever you want to call it will always be part of human society. Obviously, canceling someone on social media isn't as bad as hanging them or something though. x)

I don't like canceling in general because it's far more often wrong than it is right. The most egregious example I can think of is with Conor Daly. He's some racing man thing dude, I don't know, I don't watch that kind of stuff. I do know some bullshit happened though.

"Before the race, it was announced that Lilly would not be sponsoring Daly in the race when it was discovered that his father Derek had used a racial slur during an interview in the 1980s."

Seriously? I don't believe it went further than a lost sponsorship for a single race, but it shouldn't have happened at all. People don't think with their heads as much as they should and are too easily swayed by getting upset at something and making rash decisions in the moment. I'm sure everyone here is guilty of it too, myself included, just not to the degree of canceling someone.

All that said, there are times I can't say I feel too bad about actual scumbags getting their lives flipped upside down over their actions. The sad thing is that only rarely consequences for their actions pop up. You can be a white supremacist piece of shit, but you can't be jailed for it, sadly, and you'll always have an audience who'll either not care or be totally into that. I've seen it many times in the furry fandom, where total verifiable pieces of trash are still popular because they have a cute suit or are an established artist or something.

I guess that leads to the question asked. Honestly? I don't know. Lovecraft was a racist piece of shit, but I still love Lovecraftian horror and some of his work. On the other hand, I will not touch anything with Tom Cruise in it because he's a disgusting Scientology cultist. Yet it doesn't bother me as much that John Travolta is also a Scientologist. I have a very hard time separating the art from the artist, but sometimes I don't. Ultimately, I just don't have a solid answer. I guess it depends on the person and what they're guilty of.

TL;DR Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones.

He was a pederast among other things - I say it makes sense Hollywood is all about Scientology, given the nature of the industry
The last time I watched a movie was around the time that the whole Kevin Spacey thing came out - I have not watched a mainstream film since
They may not all be part, but enough of them are where it's a problem

 

[CG4R12I4N]

As wise people said: hate the sins, not the sinners; hate their actions, not their persons.
All people make mistakes, nobody's perfect and you should never blindly judge their whole personality just from one thing they do, especially when their actions doesn't really affect and concern your life directly in the slightest.

Like what you like as long as it doesn't bother other people, and don't let outside influence dictate your mind no matter what. Cancel Culture is more prevalent due to internet anonymity allowing people to speak without filters anyway. Plenty of boomers still love Queen and Michael Jackson's songs up to this day despite their controversial lifestyle, and Harry Potter books still sold millions years after it ended despite J.K. Rowling's anti-LGBT statements.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Yeah. I didn't follow the full case but some people straight up stopped to review movies starring him because of that.

Jumping on conclusions isn't the best choice.

I really hate that society just believes women without any evidence when it comes to these cases. I get that men have abused their power for long periods of time, but two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I really hate that society just believes women without any evidence when it comes to these cases. I get that men have abused their power for long periods of time, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Sadly many women who were victims are rarely getting taken care of and many perpetrators don't get punished but a woman lying about something is actually harming other women who are actual victims even further since when there are more complaints there is more time spent to take care of them all.

but calling out on Twitter or any social network instead of seeing people actually doing that job is just not how it works, the general public shouldn't be the lawyers, the judge and the executor with lynching.


Back to topic: What happened to the whole "separate the artist from the person" bit?

And I dislike how some may think that "X is an awful person therefore Y, who collaborated with X in something that had nothing to do with X' harmful action is de facto as awful since they were together".

I still remember when I was a teen that a guy got fired from his job at a store because he did a friendly handshake with someone who actually stole something in that store despite him being entirely unaware.

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2025

Agreed. I remember WWE coming under fire for this after unpersoning Chris Benoit years ago, as by doing so they also erased a chunk of Eddie Guerrero's WWE legacy indirectly.

I'm a noob at Wrestling lore but damn, erasing a chunk of someone's legacy by proxy is just awful...

This is just me, I've learned how to separate the art with the artist, if I like a work specifically due to the artist and their stands are against my principle, I stop following them, simple as that.

This.

I'm wondering if older writers such as Tolkien would be deemed problematic at some point...

 

[Ian Naxieas]

He was a pederast among other things - I say it makes sense Hollywood is all about Scientology, given the nature of the industry
The last time I watched a movie was around the time that the whole Kevin Spacey thing came out - I have not watched a mainstream film since
They may not all be part, but enough of them are where it's a problem

Hmm, never heard of Tom Cruise being a pederast before. But yeah, Scientology is just a big rich person's cult in the end. It's really disgusting, but not anything we can do about it.

I also forgot to mention one thing in my original post. The disgusting thing about cancel culture is how it can end with the victim getting their life ruined by nature of the perpetrator being famous or rich or something. Some victims try to fight against it, but more often than not their cases seem to be dismissed. I'm sure a not insignificant chunk, if not most, of those dismissals are just people wanting attention or money, but I don't doubt a lot of them are just because the person doesn't have the means for a protracted legal battle. All around, shit just sucks. The heat death of the universe can't come soon enough.

 

[Nidstang]

I still listen to bands, and watch stuff from creators that are "cancelled" or deemed inappropriate. I don't care unless it involves children, that's my personal line. Though I guess I still watch Ruroni Kenshin and Ren And Stimpy, so maybe I don't stand for anything.

Determine your own morals, and what you're personally ok with, and determine who you choose to watch.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Determine your own morals, and what you're personally ok with, and determine who you choose to watch.

Is consuming a medium approving the person?

 

[CG4R12I4N]

No. Cause most people creating said mediums do that for work, not for spreading any of their political beliefs or whatever buzzword lingos memeshitter likes to gossip nowadays.

Enjoying Veilguard doesn't make you automatically somehow pro-LGBT if you don't care about those things despite those icky elements inside.

 

[King Koopa's iconKing Koopa]

I only base it on my personal moral comfort. I don't give into internet peer pressure.

 

[Nidstang]

Is consuming a medium approving the person?

I don't think so

 

[medisinn]

As always, context matters. Not only the context of what the person did and when, but also in relation to what they are known for. No one is obligated to support or stop supporting a person by anything other than their own ethics or morals.

Internet Historian, a popular Youtube channel, got in some controversy a little over a year ago when it was revealed that he stole an article without credit for his script. The video got taken down, he made some edits, and it came back up. That is bad, but the context in this case to me is that he has had multiple videos taken down without explanation, and he has neither apologized nor acknowledged that he stole someone's work. I really liked his videos and thought they were funny and interesting, but the whole incident put me off watching his stuff. It made me question how many of his seemingly well-researched videos were just plagiarized. A creative person committing a creative crime, so to speak. Others have no problem continuing to watch and support him, which I can also understand, since he didn't commit a crime or directly hurt anyone.

At times "cancel culture" is a witch hunt, at other times it's the consequences of a person's actions. I think it will become less and less effective over time. Guilt and shame can be powerful motivators, but only if the person is affected by them and has empathy. The best defense against it seems to be what Internet Historian has done, i.e. nothing. Just ignore it and truck along as if nothing happened. It's shitty, but it seems to work.

In terms of wrestling, I was going to mention Chris Benoit, but that's been covered, and that's more of WWE canceling his legacy. I think Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin are more relevant points. People have grown more anti-Hulk Hogan over time as more stories are told of how big of an asshole he has been for decades, and then of course there's the racist sex tape stuff. Meanwhile, it's a known fact that Austin has committed domestic assault in the past, yet it's glazed over, perhaps because it happened before social media. That's gotten other, less popular wrestlers fired or boycotted, whether they took responsibility for their actions or not. Maybe that's also the difference? From what I've read it sounds like Stone Cold took responsibility or at least admitted to it, whereas Hulk hasn't and is well-known for exaggerating or outright lying about things.

Anyway, to make a short story long, you might as well enjoy what you enjoy and indulge in it. And if you're bothered by someone else enjoying something you disagree with, it's fair to tell them why it upsets you, although they are under no obligation to agree with you.

 

[Skeetos]

I still listen to bands, and watch stuff from creators that are "cancelled" or deemed inappropriate. I don't care unless it involves children, that's my personal line. Though I guess I still watch Ruroni Kenshin and Ren And Stimpy, so maybe I don't stand for anything.

Determine your own morals, and what you're personally ok with, and determine who you choose to watch.

In this case, Ren and Stimpy is more than the creator. I love that show, excepting the Adult Party Cartoon. And Ruroni Kenshin is an Anime from a while ago. Idk it was just different back then, especially thinking about Japan's culture. People still play Senran Kagura and don't give a shit. I mean I won't do it because it makes me uncomfortable a bit, but you know, I also like Kill la Kill so I can't really talk.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I don't think so.

I think some mental gymnastics (or Olympics for some) has been done with things like "if you are consuming X therefore you are supporting the person and its actions".

At times "cancel culture" is a witch hunt, at other times it's the consequences of a person's actions. I think it will become less and less effective over time. Guilt and shame can be powerful motivators, but only if the person is affected by them and has empathy. The best defense against it seems to be what Internet Historian has done, i.e. nothing. Just ignore it and truck along as if nothing happened. It's shitty, but it seems to work.

Calling out someone who's untouchable legally (because they are too rich/powerful to get any legal penalties) could be understandable (I don't say it's ok to publicly lynch someone since we are civilised and no longer in the middle ages where we got these wood thing to publicly portray thiefs or shaving infidel wives's hair) but if it becomes a tool to ruin a rival's reputation (especially when some wait until someone gets popular to finally do that when they could've had done it before) is just terrible and manipulative. There was already a bad time where anyone with a differing opinion was being called out (like the red scare) or how we asked kids to report if their parents or neighbour was doing something suspicious against the country in some epoch.

 

[Vetusomaru]

Daily reminder that many innocent men get their lives ruined or even end up killing themselves because of baseless fake accusations with the accusers rarely being punished by laws as they should mostly because of their vagina pass. Zoe Quinn is a famous example of that with her being responsible for Alec Holowka's suicide because she accused him for sexually abusing her despite the fact that Zoe Quinn has always been infamous for being a shameless hoe that has sex with men left and right to get favors from them.

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2025

Idk it was just different back then, especially thinking about Japan's culture.

Last time I checked it wasn't Japan that pushes for pedophilia normalization but "progressive" Western countries like USA, Britain, Israel, France etc.

Countries with most CSAM reports 2022| Statista

According to a global study conducted between 2020 and 2022, a total of 13.1 million pieces of website content were reported in India in the measured period for containing Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM).

www.statista.com

EU still hosts the most child sexual abuse material in the world

New IWF data shows that three in every five child sexual abuse reports are hosted in an EU member state.

www.iwf.org.uk

Hell, the West even makes and glorifies child porn movies like Netflix's Cuties and we see journalists all the time defending pedophilia (especially from BBC and Vice with many BBC staff being arrested for child abuse crimes) while they lecture Japan over anime. And let's not start with all these big sites like twitter, Facebook, OnlyFans, PornHub, discord, Instagram, TikTok etc being full with child porn and allowing and promoting sexualization of minors and child molesting. Meanwhile in countries like Britain that have huge child abuse rate instead of arresting the rapists they arrest innocent citizens for complaining about British police for not arresting the rapists.

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

Daily reminder that many innocent men get their lives ruined or even end up killing themselves because of baseless fake accusations with the accusers rarely being punished by laws as they should mostly because of their vagina pass. Zoe Quinn is a famous example of that with her being responsible for Alec Holowka's suicide because she accused him for sexually abusing her despite the fact that Zoe Quinn has always been infamous for being a shameless hoe that has sex with men left and right to get favors from them.

I'm reminded of the Reddit Boston Bomber incident, where they identified the wrong guy who was a recently deceased suicide victim and proceeded to torment the family who was still grieving. Internet lynch mobs are absolutely fallible.

I always think of Moe's quote from the Simpson's when the town nearly gets hit by a comet, "Let's burn down the observatory so this never happens again!" Mob mentality more often than not lets kneejerk emotion override reason.

 

[Dakarus]

I dunno, I just play old video game and enjoy life.

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

I dunno, I just play old video game and enjoy life.

This is the way to be honestly. I only really like engaging with things that make me happy and tune out the things that bug me. I never understood spending energy on things that upset you.

 

[Octopus]

It really seemed to come out of left field, at least from a fan perspective. I guess, as an outsider, you never really know about these things until they happen.

His case is really sad, for exactly what you said as the guy seemed like a genuinely nice person. He's been confirmed to be a victim of CTE (chronic traumatic encephalopathy, they somewhat recently correlated his brain scans with what we now know of the condition) as a result of too many concussions, it's a really sad condition you see in a lot of football players and similar high contact sports. Changes peoples entire personality through repeated brain damage as a result of head trauma. Wasn't even his fault mostly, he just actually had brain damage.

For the actual topic, it depends if the person's work is inseparable from themselves or their personality or not for me, and the severity of the offence or whatever of course. If someone did terrible things, like maybe a Bryan Singer, but their work isn't a reflection of that then I can safely separate the work from the person. Nothing in the X-Men movies is about being a pedophile rapist, after all. But it gets harder with some artists when their work is very representative of themselves, it's harder to seperate it from the person. There's some exceptions of course, and I think context is always important. I love H.P Lovecraft, but he was famously a pretty terrible racist, even for his time, and it factors a lot into his stories. That being said, looking at the context of his life (and his eventual personal growth out of that mindset later in his short life) it's easier for me to separate the man from his work.

Then again none of Roman Polanski's work is about being an atrocious pedophile rapist, but I cannot seperate him from his work because of the severity and context. The guy literally fled the country to avoid being convicted of rape on a 13 year old, and yet he's still talked about as an amazing filmmaker and even won awards since, despite not being able to step foot in the States as he will be immediately convicted of child rape. I personally do not agree with any of that, so I do not watch any of his stuff. Fuck Roman Polanski.