Sequel decay

[RageBurner]

Bioshock the first game is absolutely fantastic but unfortunately its sequels aren't as good, Bioshock 2 is alright but Bioshock Infinite has one of the worst stories I've ever seen in a video game.

Post automatically merged: Mar 27, 2025

Dead Space is another example: the first two games are absolute classics in the horror genre. But the third game is awful.

BS3 feels like the devs saying "You know, let's just go nuts and have fun, plot be damned."

 

[Jediuser]

I'm no DMC expert, but my guess is it was made by the "B" team.

A video I saw said it was handed off to devs who had experience mostly with arcade games.

 

[RageBurner]

A video I saw said it was handed off to devs who had experience mostly with arcade games.

Hm... that makes a lot of sense actually.

 

[Deleted member 884]

EDIT:
Ninja Gaiden 3, the worst of the trilogy (the PS3 one). The first one is great even if it's a bit hard, and second one is so damn fantastic. But the third has disappointed me back then when I first played it.

Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, a big step forward compared the first game, the one who made me buy a PS3 when it got released. Same for NUNS3, too easy to enjoy it.

Dragon Ball Ultimate Tenkaichi, WTF was that? Just WTF??

Saints Row the Third, I liked SR2, but the sequel was just a bunch of nonsense even though I liked it too. But the fourth is even worse from that point of view. Let's just not talk about the reboot, huh?

The last one I remember for now: Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, couldn't play it for too long.

 

[RageBurner]

Ninja Gaiden 3, the worst of the trilogy. The first one is great even if it's a bit hard, and second one is so damn fantastic. But the third has disappointed me back then when I first played it.

Do you mean the 2D or 3D Ninja Gaidens?

 

[Deleted member 884]

Do you mean the 2D or 3D Ninja Gaidens?

My bad, the PS3 trilogy.

 

[RageBurner]

My bad, the PS3 trilogy.

I see, I've yet to play them. Are those the same ones that have Vita versions as well?

 

[Jediuser]

EDIT:
Ninja Gaiden 3, the worst of the trilogy (the PS3 one). The first one is great even if it's a bit hard, and second one is so damn fantastic. But the third has disappointed me back then when I first played it.

Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, a big step forward compared the first game, the one who made me buy a PS3 when it got released. Same for NUNS3, too easy to enjoy it.

Dragon Ball Ultimate Tenkaichi, WTF was that? Just WTF??

Saints Row the Third, I liked SR2, but the sequel was just a bunch of nonsense even though I liked it too. But the fourth is even worse from that point of view. Let's just not talk about the reboot, huh?

The last one I remember for now: Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, couldn't play it for too long.

I actually really like Saints Row the Third because of its insanity. Saints Row IV is where it lost me. That one took a kitchen sink approach where they just threw a bunch of random shit in, like superpowers that unbalanced the game.

 

[Deleted member 884]

I see, I've yet to play them. Are those the same ones that have Vita versions as well?

Never played the Vita ones, I only know that the first two are the remake of the Xbox games.

 

[Yousef]

Mmmmm this is a somewhat spicy take but kingdom hearts has this issue too.

“kinda” is the understatement of the century.

 

[Ikagura]

BioShock the first game is absolutely fantastic but unfortunately its sequels aren't as good, BioShock 2 is alright but BioShock Infinite has one of the worst stories I've ever seen in a video game.

I wish there was a leak of the previous build because the first E3 trailer showed something way different.

Saints Row the Third, I liked SR2, but the sequel was just a bunch of nonsense even though I liked it too. But the fourth is even worse from that point of view. Let's just not talk about the reboot, huh?

As I heard IV was planned as a big DLC for The The Third but ended up becoming its own game.

I still liked Gat out of Hell for what it was.

 

[ThatOneLum]

Sort of a weird 'reverse' example, but I had this experience with Blood Omen 1 after playing Soul Reaver 1-2, LOK: Defiance, and even Blood Omen 2.

Finally got around to playing the GOG port and reached the end to discover that i don't even like the original entry in the franchise that I'm such a huge fan of. Not even just because it's a hack-and-slash, isometric deal. I've had fun with that genre in other games.

As I heard IV was planned as a big DLC for The The Third but ended up becoming its own game.

I still liked Gat out of Hell for what it was.

That makes a lot of sense. It took me years to finish 4 because it just felt a bit...limp, I guess?

I honestly enjoyed Gat Out of Hell a ton more because it felt a bit more interesting.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

The first Deus Ex was life-changing experience for me. It taught me just how deep, mature and complex a game could be at a time where most were seen as mindless time wasters. It appealed to my intelligence and didn't shy away from challenging it, either.

... But then came the sequel: Invisible War (AKA Deus Xbox) and it walked back on so many of the things that made the original great that it simply wasn't worth even looking at. Oversimplifying a game just to make it fit on a console was inexcusable, and something they had no reason to do (because the original had to be butchered to enter the PS2, so they knew that it wouldn't work). It has left a permanent bad taste in my mouth.

Tbh , i liked invisible war . But it was a game to dislike for its unnecessary and rather bad streamlining but otherwise still cool for its grounded vision of the future that even today suprisingly reflects our nowadays society and its political shenanigans .

Main-Story-wise it had retcons which sours the taste towards invisible war but had its own cool stories besides the mainstory which aint bad overall .

Its still far from terrible but as an Deus Ex-sequel it was badly handled . While i can agree that some aspects and elements needed streamlining , it did way too far and the gameplay was extremly weird while lacking that good oomph behind it.

Now to the maintopic of this thread :

Gears of War and Halo .

Both games peaked with their third game and should stayed as ended franchises because in both games the story was ended and the conflict had a conclusion . AND THEN THE UNNECESSARY SEQUELS/PREQUELS APPEARED !! It all goes down from there.
Turok is another franchise that fall apart from Turok Evolution , which was a mess of a game itsself and lacked many things that made the Turok games so awesome. It was only enjoyable with cheats on because the gameplay was really clunky and bad somehow .

 

[ThatOneLum]

Tbh , i liked invisible war . But it was a game to dislike for its unnecessary and rather bad streamlining but otherwise still cool for its grounded vision of the future that even today suprisingly reflects our nowadays society and its political shenanigans .

Main-Story-wise it had retcons which sours the taste towards invisible war but had its own cool stories besides the mainstory which aint bad overall .

Its still far from terrible but as an Deus Ex-sequel it was badly handled . While i can agree that some aspects and elements needed streamlining , it did way too far and the gameplay was extremly weird while lacking that good oomph behind it.

I've got to be honest, my first experience with the franchise was Invisible War, and I had a great time with it as an entry point.

I've recently got around to playing through the original Deus Ex (thanks GOG) and I've been fully experiencing why so many people rave about this game. Weirdly though, in hindsight, after playing Deus Ex I'm going to have a much easier time going back to Invisible War than I am Human Revolution.

Human Revolution feels like such dogshit after directly playing DE. Literally opening with a 15-minute railroad, then leading into a game that is 80% railroad, just hits different after the full freedom you experience in the original.

 

[Ikagura]

That makes a lot of sense. It took me years to finish 4 because it just felt a bit...limp, I guess?

I honestly enjoyed Gat Out of Hell a ton more because it felt a bit more interesting.

My biggest gripe about IV is that most of the fun in the game came from the main missions (like the beat'em up level a la Streets of Rage or the MGS parody level) but like The Third they are not replayable which is a big shame so you're left with a rather ugly looking version of Steelport without actual day/night and that weird glitch/pixel blur effect...

I understand the Matrix and Skynet reference but FarCry 3 Blood Dragon did the 80's cyber aesthetic much better imo.

I still like The Third because despite the wackiness they kept some stake with the story and gangs instead of being over the top.

I have that same sentiment with No More Heroes: the first game had wacky elements but stayed down to earth with the scenario whereas III looks like it's the Saints Row IV of the NMH franchise.

Gat deserved his own complete game after GooH... I wish SR Reboot was about a younger cast showing how they created the gang of the 3rd Street Saint.

I'll have to play SR1 on emulators soon.

PS: Is Agents of Mayhem good? Even if it's just decent I'd be fine with it.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

I've got to be honest, my first experience with the franchise was Invisible War, and I had a great time with it as an entry point.

I've recently got around to playing through the original Deus Ex (thanks GOG) and I've been fully experiencing why so many people rave about this game. Weirdly though, in hindsight, after playing Deus Ex I'm going to have a much easier time going back to Invisible War than I am Human Revolution.

Human Revolution feels like such dogshit after directly playing DE. Literally opening with a 15-minute railroad, then leading into a game that is 80% railroad, just hits different after the full freedom you experience in the original.

I fully agree with you. While i like Adam Jensen as the protagonist , i cant play human revolution and mankind divided through again because the choices were not as impacting as the old games , its story was rather meh and the gameplay had way too much filler which somehow stretches out into boredom . Hacking this , neutralise that enemy , avoid/eliminate cameras , hacking that , read many long texts of emails , loot some stuff and repeat .

It lacked something too which i cant put my finger on it . The scope aint really there and the areas were rather lifeless even with the NPCs running around .

 

[Ikagura]

BS3 feels like the devs saying "You know, let's just go nuts and have fun, plot be damned."

Literally the worst thing to do with an Immersive Sim.

It's not nervous enough to be like a boomer shooter and not narrative enough to be a good immersive experience.

I'd rather play The Darkness then.

 

[ThatOneLum]

My biggest gripe about IV is that most of the fun in the game came from the main missions (like the beat'em up level a la Streets of Rage or the MGS parody level) but like The Third they are not replayable which is a big shame so you're left with a rather ugly looking version of Steelport without actual day/night and that weird glitch/pixel blur effect...

I understand the Matrix and Skynet reference but FarCry 3 Blood Dragon did the 80's cyber aesthetic much better imo.

I still like The Third because despite the wackiness they kept some stake with the story and gangs instead of being over the top.

I have that same sentiment with No More Heroes: the first game had wacky elements but stayed down to earth with the scenario whereas III looks like it's the Saints Row IV of the NMH franchise.

Gat deserved his own complete game after GooH... I wish SR Reboot was about a younger cast showing how they created the gang of the 3rd Street Saint.

I'll have to play SR1 on emulators soon.

PS: Is Agents of Mayhem good? Even if it's just decent I'd be fine with it.

I would have enjoyed another SR that grounded stuff a bit again. I also enjoyed the first NMH but haven't found much personal hype for the rest of the games at all.

Honestly, I'm still planning on trying out the reboot, even if people weren't big fans of it. I've got it free thanks to a friend/family sharing library on Steam so I wanna give it a fair shake.

I fully agree with you. While i like Adam Jensen as the protagonist , i cant play human revolution and mankind divided through again because the choices were not as impacting as the old games , its story was rather meh and the gameplay had way too much filler which somehow stretches out into boredom . Hacking this , neutralise that enemy , avoid/eliminate cameras , hacking that , read many long texts of emails , loot some stuff and repeat .

It lacked something too which i cant put my finger on it . The scope aint really there and the areas were rather lifeless even with the NPCs running around .

I feel like the 'lacking' comes from the eras both games were made in. It very much feels like Human Revolution is trying to have the same attention to detail as the original, but because they were in a modern AAA, all platforms dev cycle, they had no opportunity to actually give it that attention.

When you've got Square Enix breathing down your neck, it's hard to go back over and over again until you feel like you've got it right. I'm pretty sure that the head designer behind Deus Ex was quoted as saying that the original wasn't very good until a few months out from release. It took them every second of going back and tweaking to get it to the magical place it sits in. No chance that SE would have given those devs enough time to actually do it.

I would still say that I think they accomplished something great with what they had, but it just has no chance of holding a candle to the first game. However, I still feel like the story/characters would have ended up a bit lacking. They had so many great opportunities for awesome story moments that were completely missed, and even the overarching plot was limp as hell.

 

[Ikagura]

I would have enjoyed another SR that grounded stuff a bit again. I also enjoyed the first NMH but haven't found much personal hype for the rest of the games at all.

Honestly, I'm still planning on trying out the reboot, even if people weren't big fans of it. I've got it free thanks to a friend/family sharing library on Steam so I wanna give it a fair shake.

Which begs me the question about how to make something both wacky while having a serious story under it.

Saints Row is a gangster-focused game after all. It's not exactly like GTA in the sense that GTA IV went a darker route whereas SR added more fun things (even starting from 2 with some of the missions).

I am not interested in the SReboot since I've seen Flippy's gameplay (and he's a big SR-tuber) because of the bullet sponge enemies.

 

[RanmyakuIchi's iconRanmyakuIchi]

My personal go to for this is always the 3D series Ninja Gaiden 3. Hayashi had a *very* different idea for the series from Itagaki, choosing to focus more on the morality of killing (special mention to the infamous "Don't kill me, mate" scene) while also watering down the action gameplay (No limb removal mechanic, sword being the only weapon before patches, quick-time events and slow corridor walk sequences, less interesting and aggressive enemies etc.). Hayashi's "Japanese Dark Hero" take on Ryu wasn't the most well received, and for good reason.

The updated rerelease, Razor's Edge, ran back a large number of these changes and ideas, and is a much better game for it. The brand had been damaged however, and between that and Yaiba we're only just now seeing the series attempting a comeback.

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

I feel SMT4 suffered from this more than any other. While 5 has issues, I feel it was a return to form in several areas. Strange Journey, 1, 2 and 3 are stronger entries, though.

Disagree, I'd argue 4 was one of the closest to SMT 1 & 2's dystopian cyberpunk style with the way that the samurai tech works (very similar to the Demon Summoning Program), the way the music sounds, the gritty look that it has and the story.

Spoiler: SMT IV late game area

Also Blasted/Infernal Tokyo in their entirety are like the ruins in SMT 1 and the Vortex World in Nocturne

5 on the other hand completely abandons the idea and is where you can argue a victim of anime-ification

4 Apocalypse is a different story too.

Also, might be a hot take but I kinda like the Pokemon-ification of the games because 5 is probably one of my favorites due to the sheer variety at my hands. Every demon is relatively viable and I don't have to throw them away because they became useless like previous games. If I want to bring Jack Frost to the final boss, the game allows me to with no consequences, and I think that's cool. Touhou Artificial Dream in Arcadia does a similar thing, which I also like there too. One of Pokemon's core strengths for me was always the team building. You can beat any Pokemon game with any Pokemon with any moves if you so desire, I like the freedom. It also causes some designs to grow on me, like what happened to Aitvaras, who I originally only fused for a fire user and now it's a mainstay. I love my egg loving fire dragon.

4. Not sure there's any that people hate, and the last one was quite a hit.

I think it's only Dragon Quest VI that people actually consistently dislike

 

[moonbits]

Yeah, SMT4 had more in common with SMT1&2 while 5 just tried to be 3 and failed at it. (Still a good game)

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

Now for the hot takes, i think the persona series of games have strayed more and more from it's darker roots with 1 and 2 and became a hijacked series as of 3, making the series less and less interesting to me, to a extent this also applies to the shin megami tensei series as well.

This isn't even a hot take, this is literally just what happened. You notice the decline simply going story by story too

Persona 1: Nihilism, fever dreams, and isolation
Persona 2: misinformation, character development, sacrifices

Persona 3: ...Character development, looming danger, sacrifices
Persona 4: murders treated like a monster of the week more than something deeper like an Agatha Christie story.

Spoiler: Persona 1 and 4 villains

I guess you could say Adachi is a nihilist, which is like Kandori in 1 but eh

Persona 5: monster of the week, mediocre characters that are prone to getting abandoned for the next which is fixed only by the canonical sequel which oof, claims to be all about the rebellion and taking down shitty people...while also being incredibly hypocritical at times

Spoiler: Persona 5

(Kamoshida is treated like a villain through and through but no one questions Tae's willingness to experiment with drugs on people, minors no less. Ohya. The principal just goes completely ignored when he tried to get a student to stalk other students. The way that Ryuji was treated by the entire sports team as a result of SOMEONE ELSE'S ABUSE OF POWER and not criticising this fact. That rejected side mission about stopping game piracy, yeah really fighting the system there Persona 5. Also the police. They're wiling to beat the shit out of a literal child for any scraps of information, you'd think this would be something the thieves would try to tackle and dismantle.)

Most smoke and mirrors plot of all time

Post automatically merged: Mar 28, 2025

This isn't even a hot take, this is literally just what happened. You notice the decline simply going story by story too

Persona 1: Nihilism, fever dreams, and isolation
Persona 2: misinformation, character development, sacrifices

Persona 3: ...Character development, looming danger, sacrifices
Persona 4: murders treated like a monster of the week more than something deeper like an Agatha Christie story.

Spoiler: Persona 1 and 4 villains

I guess you could say Adachi is a nihilist, which is like Kandori in 1 but eh

Persona 5: monster of the week, mediocre characters that are prone to getting abandoned for the next which is fixed only by the canonical sequel which oof, claims to be all about the rebellion and taking down shitty people...while also being incredibly hypocritical at times

Spoiler: Persona 5

(Kamoshida is treated like a villain through and through but no one questions Tae's willingness to experiment with drugs on people, minors no less. Ohya. The principal just goes completely ignored when he tried to get a student to stalk other students. The way that Ryuji was treated by the entire sports team as a result of SOMEONE ELSE'S ABUSE OF POWER and not criticising this fact. That rejected side mission about stopping game piracy, yeah really fighting the system there Persona 5. Also the police. They're wiling to beat the shit out of a literal child for any scraps of information, you'd think this would be something the thieves would try to tackle and dismantle.)

Most smoke and mirrors plot of all time

After a cold shower, I realised that I kinda oversimplified the plot of 1-3 a bit and realised its a bit hypocritical of me (heh ironic) to criticise the monster of the week format when Persona 2 also does that. Still stand by my other points on 4 and 5 though.

Spoiler: Purse Owner 4 and Arena

Adding to 4, I also never liked the fact that Dojima forgave Adachi. The man who
-killed a celebrity because of his own fabricated reality built on parasociality
-killed a child for being an unwilling witness
-attempted to kill 4 more children simply for being in the area
-was the direct cause of Nanako almost DYING
-played up a fake "goofy wacky guy" persona so no one would suspect him
-all of this even though he had a pretty good school life and could've gone far in life
-all of this cause he was bored

and he was forgiven for this.
I get the series is all about friendship and forgiveness and whatever, but some people genuinely don't deserve even that.

 

[AkiraSO4]

The instigator within me would say Tekken 8, but let's go for something else.

Street Fighter V.
After the tremendous success SFIV was, SFV felt like a step back in so many ways. The few good new characters didn't reach their potential, the gameplay felt stripped down and monotone, if you see one pro player play a certain character, you've seen them all. Not to mention the throw loops. The way to unlock characters is pretty stupid as well, even in the game's final days. It got a little more acceptable towards the end, but it was too late by then.

 

[TotzOnGaming]

Only my opinion but I think No One Lives Forever suffered from this by the 1st being the best then NOLF 2 and Contract JACK being a bit lackluster. Still I'd be happy if it ever comes around again.