Pragmata was... just okay

[BrawlMan]

Which I do again feel compelled to point out is something people said in relation to videogames in the mid and late eighties, the early and late nineties, the aughts, the 2010's, etc. Covering the entirety of what most of us view as the retro golden age of gaming.

That's always been there. You just only bother to notice around the seventh generation, like most people as they got older and paid more attention to the gaming scene.

I know the Japanese developers had more executives that were once game developers or gamers themselves and that was mostly common practice that somewhat faded, but this was almost never the case on the Western side. Even during the days of the Atari 2600. You're really not saying anything new, and this is not a grand revelation unless you are super casual gamer or a non gamer who doesn't even bother following any the news. So let's not chat a blind ourselves too much wit nostalgia here or act as if this is something groundbreaking you figured out on your own.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

Most people I see choose the PS2 as the best console gen. I prefer the 7th gen, but I do recognize that gaming lost more in that transition than blurry graphics.

The sixth gen had a LOT of criticism about the games all being soulless products pushing graphics only, style over substance. The seventh it reached a fever pitch. It was a CONSTANT theme of discourse on the big videogame forums at Neogaf, Gamespot, Gamespy, IGN, 1up, Gametrailers, etc.

And are they wrong? Or are they feeling the times? We live in an increasingly corporate world.

You asked me this earlier, I'm not sure why you are. I'm simply pointing out that they did say that during times you view very favorably for gaming. Do YOU think they are wrong? They are basically just you, but in a different decade.

Post automatically merged: May 5, 2026

I know the Japanese developers had more executives that were once game developers or gamers themselves and that was mostly common practice that somewhat faded, but this was almost never the case on the Western side.

Prime example, the completely out of touch Sega of America executives who sabotaged the Sega Saturn in North America, whereas in Japan the Saturn was a HUGE runaway succcess!

 

[BrawlMan]

The sixth gen had a LOT of criticism about the games all being soulless products pushing graphics only, style over substance. The seventh it reached a fever pitch. It was a CONSTANT theme of discourse on the big videogame forums at Neogaf, Gamespot, Gamespy, IGN, 1up, Gametrailers, etc.

I actually remember some of that, but I didn't pay too much attention at the time. I was still a kid, and even when I was a teenager during the later parts of six generation, I just wanted to play fun games. Stellar graphics, art style, or all the above.

They are basically just you, but in a different decade.

Exactly.

Prime example, the completely out of touch Sega of America executives who sabotaged the Sega Saturn in North America, whereas in Japan the Saturn was a HUGE runaway succcess!

Thank you! Somebody gets it!

 

[Kovlak]

The sixth gen had a LOT of criticism about the games all being soulless products pushing graphics only, style over substance. The seventh it reached a fever pitch. It was a CONSTANT theme of discourse on the big videogame forums at Neogaf, Gamespot, Gamespy, IGN, 1up, Gametrailers, etc.

You asked me this earlier, I'm not sure why you are. I'm simply pointing out that they did say that during times you view very favorably for gaming. Do YOU think they are wrong? They are basically just you, but in a different decade.

I don't think they're wrong. I can't deny how things feel increasingly bland and safe over time. I think it is, like @BrawlMan aluded to, a thing of getting older.

And arching back to Pragmata, that's how I see it: shallow, bland and safe. Even playing on men's impulses on fathering and protecting.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

Lacks sauce. Designed by corporations to be as inoffensive as possible.

I don't think anyone should be offended by these games, because they aren't meant to be offensive.

I'm not sure I follow. You expressed that it's bad that games are designed to be inoffensive, (though as a I pointed out these games are, in fact, still offending people nevertheless. By having a cute father daughter relationship in Pragmata, or not letting middle aged incels goon over minors in Fatal Frame 2 Remake) so that implies games should offend people and that would be better.

But when asked for a specific explanation of who should be offended, how, and why it would make the games better, you say you don't think anyone should be offended? Maybe you're using the word offensive in a context I'm not understanding?

 

[Kovlak]

I'm not sure I follow. You expressed that it's bad that games are designed to be inoffensive, (though as a I pointed out these games are, in fact, still offending people nevertheless. By having a cute father daughter relationship in Pragmata, or not letting middle aged incels goon over minors in Fatal Frame 2 Remake) so that implies games should offend peoplke and that would be better.

But when asked for a specific explanation of who should be offended, how, and why it would make the games better, you say you don't think anyone should be offended?

You're strawmaning that last period. I never said nobody should be offended about games in general. I was talking about Pragmata. Pragmata was designed to not offend anyone. But nowadays even parenthood is offensive.

If games did say something, were offensive, there would a reason to think about them, rather than just discard them like something disposable and move on. If you look around, very few of the discussions are about new, newish games. They just generally don't have that staying power.

 

[Ikagura]

I'm legit being lost about the thread's direction.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

Even playing on men's impulses on fathering and protecting.

Doesn't The Last of Us, which you seemed to see more favorably compared to Pragmata earlier in this same thread, also do the same? That isn't an impulse that can only be used to manipulate men either, women can find that kind of story immensely satisfying as well. My father was a total piece of garbage, and seeing a capital D dad doing Dad stuff makes me super happy. (and a little sad, a feeling of longing)

 

[BrawlMan]

don't think anyone should be offended by these games, because they aren't meant to be offensive. Although some are. Seems like a father daughter relationship in 2026 is starting to be offensive...

Dude, there are people who are still "offended" by games that have women as the main protagonist in single player games. Even though they had been done before back then, but just not on a larger scale most of the time. That has long changed already in so many gaming genres and conventions. Dumb ass and self absorbed ignorant eople will get offended when an indie developer does it, yet the "offended" act as if they care about indies in the first place. Let alone Japanese gaming. Plenty of them are or were the same ass holes who claimed Japanese gaming wasn't needed any longer/"dead", only to start sucking up to gain more clout, but not care about actual gaming. They're only there for the clickbait and to divide people. You get people who are offended, because the main character ain't white or has black skin. Those fools never matter in the long run. They never did. So if they have a problem with a father and daughter relationship, it's because they can't make any meaningful connections of their own and can't get a woman, because they're losers who think they can only get a woman by treating her like shit. Or being some "Alpha/Simga" they imagined in their head or some angry neck beard with a small dick online told them to do so in a commercial or some dumb video rant. Fuck people like that. They don't actually care about the merits of gaming nor art. They just want all eyes on them, and their soap boxes. Don't give these fools any time of the day. Let them burn in their own hell they created for themselves, and make sure Fleming makes room for the when they actually get to true hell.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

You're strawmaning that last period. I never said nobody should be offended about games in general. I was talking about Pragmata. Pragmata was designed to not offend anyone. But nowadays even parenthood is offensive.

If games did say something, were offensive, there would a reason to think about them, rather than just discard them like something disposable and move on. If you look around, very few of the discussions are about new, newish games. They just generally don't have that staying power.

But it did offend quite a few people. Loud people. Is it possible the offensive games you view favorably were also not intentionally offensive in the first place?

Doesn't The Last of Us, which you seemed to see more favorably compared to Pragmata earlier in this same thread, also do the same? That isn't an impulse that can only be used to manipulate men either, women can find that kind of story immensely satisfying as well. My father was a total piece of garbage, and seeing a capital D dad doing Dad stuff makes me super happy. (and a little sad, a feeling of longing)

To add to this, I wept for hours after beating Silent Hill: Shattered Memories getting whats viewed as the main "good ending". (as good as it can be in SH!) I will never forget that game.

 

[Ikagura]

While I agree that art should be allowed to push boundaries and break conventions (especially the social ones) I also think that it's also fine to not try reinventing the wheel nor having anything that may offend people (even if I think that being offended about a guy babysitting an android girl from evil robots is just silly).

 

[random0nonsense]

You folks realize you're debating subjective opinions, right? The things that offend one person are precisely what get another charged up. I do agree that based on the demo Pragmata seems soulless, but I realize that this just in my interior worldview. If it were up to me we would only have local multiplayer, but that's just because I hate online gaming; it doesn't mean that I find online gamers to be wrong and misguided.

It is possible for something to be two things at once.

 

[Kovlak]

Doesn't The Last of Us, which you seemed to see more favorably compared to Pragmata earlier in this same thread, also do the same?

It did. But did it first. Since then we've had a slew of games that did the same and made it common place.

Is it possible the offensive games you view favorably were also not intentionally offensive in the first place?

You're telling me Playboy: The Mansion wasn't meant to be offensive???

 

[Aunt Sarah]

I'm legit being lost about the thread's direction.

It's about the sublime beauty of Hawaiian pizza.

While I agree that art should be allowed to push boundaries and break conventions (especially the social ones) I also think that it's also fine to not try reinventing the wheel nor having anything that may offend people (even if I think that being offended about a guy babysitting an android girl from evil robots is just silly).

Yeah I super disliked the excessive hype on games needing to innovate around the Nintendo DS and Wii era. Or as I called it INNOVASHUN!!!1111!!!! Alot of super innovative games sure, but they just weren't very good. Most of the best games from those were the most traditional ones that most easily could have been played on a regular controller.

Execution of the game mechanics is more important, imo. Do innovate where it makes sense, but do not fix what isn't broken. That's the mistake a LOT of JRPG developers and Japanese studios in general for a while there, made in the 360/PS3 console era trying to appeal to people who were never going to like their stuff regardless.

Post automatically merged: May 5, 2026

You're telling me Playboy: The Mansion wasn't meant to be offensive???

I've never heard of it. But I'd reckon it was meant to be porn/raunchy humor. I don't find that offensive, but it has it's time and place. (of course!) I think some certain people are destined to be offended by the product just because it exists, but did the designers mean to cause offense to them or was it just a happy byproduct?

 

[BrawlMan]

do agree that based on the demo Pragmata seems soulless, but I realize that this just in my interior worldview.

You're wrong on the soulless but at least you admit it to being your narrow worldview. If this game were truly soulless, then it would have had that four small multiplayer people complain about during seventh generation or had gambling in season passes attached to it like a stapled frankenstein monster.

While I agree that art should be allowed to push boundaries and break conventions (especially the social ones) I also think that it's also fine to not try reinventing the wheel nor having anything that may offend people (even if I think that being offended about a guy babysitting an android girl from evil robots is just silly).

You are correct.

Enough of this, and let's get back on track:

I don't care for whatever excuses or reasons at this point; you're either in or you're out, people.

 

[Kovlak]

It's about the sublime beauty of Hawaiian pizza.

Yeah I super disliked the excessive hype on games needing to innovate around the Nintendo DS and Wii era. Or as I called it INNOVASHUN!!!1111!!!! Alot of super innovative games sure, but they just weren't very good. Most of the best games from those were the most traditional ones that most easily could have been played on a regular controller.

If you don't breath new air into any space, it eventually gets stale and eventually everything in the space dies. Not everything needs to be inovative, but if culturally we're just coasting on old ideas, culture just dies.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

It did. But did it first. Since then we've had a slew of games that did the same and made it common place.

Games that featured a dad/daughter relationship as a big or central part of the story definitely do predate The Last of Us. So if doing it first is what counts the most, TLOU is no better than Pragmata.

Post automatically merged: May 5, 2026

If you don't breath new air into any space, it eventually gets stale and eventually everything in the space dies. Not everything needs to be inovative, but if culturally we're just coasting on old ideas, culture just dies.

I agree. I just think in that particular era devs were not innovating out of real need, they were doing INNOVASHUN and pumping out slop. Bad games can be innovative, and we sure did have a lot of those in the INNOVASHUN era.

But the eras you see as great and innovative in gaming had people like you declaring it dead stale and soulless. That's all I've been pointing out in most of our interactions.

 

[Kovlak]

So if doing it first is what counts the most, TLOU is no better than Pragmata.

It is better, to people who experienced it first.
And with each experience of a similar game, the concept loses freshness.

I just think in that particular era devs were not innovating out of real nee

I'd argue gaming was more sustainable in the past. Developers cared more for the state of the industry itself, were socially aware, and inovated more often.

 

[Aunt Sarah]

It is better, to people who experienced it first.
And with each experience of a similar game, the concept loses freshness.

Pragmata has unbelievably terrific sales for a new IP. Clearly it's less important that the concept wasn't new, as it is that it was executed very well.

 

[Kovlak]

Pragmata has unbelievably terrific sales for a new IP. Clearly it's less important that the concept wasn't new, as it is that it was executed very well.

In a time where good AAA games have become the exception, rather than the rule, and Capcom's great reputation in general, it's not surprising it is selling well. And people don't seem exactly picky nowadays in the genre of games they buy in general...

 

[BrawlMan]

https://nintendowire.com/news/2026/05/04/capcom-executive-explains-how-pragmatas-design-was-influenced-by-western-tastes-hints-at-bigger-future-for-the-ip/

The recently released Pragmata has been a pretty big success for Capcom. While not capturing the same numbers as Resident Evil Requiem, the company has a veritable hit on its hands that could become a series in its own right. This is what Capcom USA COO Rob Dyer said at Iicon (a new gaming event similar to E3) this weekend.

In a panel discussing Capcom’s approach to game development, Dyer discussed how Western tastes were taken into account when developing Pragmata. As he states, the Japanese development team listened to its American division and ran specific focus tests, demos, and surveys to garner feedback from a different audience. Dyer noted that after six years of development, “it was worth the effort.”

Dyer believes that Capcom’s commitment to a Nintendo Switch 2 version day-one and the fact that it offered an early demo as some of the reasons for why Pragmata was so successful. “As a result, these initiatives generated significant momentum, enabling Pragmata to achieve worldwide sales of over one million units in just two days despite being a completely new IP, marking a strong start for the title.”

He then hinted at a possible bright future for the Pragmata IP. “We’re to a point now where we’ve got another IP that Capcom—and god bless them, has an arsenal—that we can continue to go down,” he said. While that reads more like Dyer assuming Capcom will develop further sequels, I could see that as a possibility. Capcom has branched out from its typical stable of IPs (Resident Evil, Street Fighter, Monster Hunter) in recent years, but they mostly haven’t stuck. Pragmata was a success right out of the gate and will only continue to be profitable, so why stop with just one?