He absolutely is, Wicker Man had a million problems that don't relate to the lead actor.
Movies Overhated movies
- Thread starter Yousef
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Oh yeah. He has a bit of a generic look to him, but after scrolling through his filmography there were plenty of movies I enjoyed him in.
I think the Nic Cage hate has greatly subsided in recent years along with a renaissance of his career. He did star in a lot of stinkers when he had to pay off his tax debts but he was always the most entertaining part. Like that rapture movie "Left Behind", which ranks among the funniest christsploitation films I've ever seen, albeit not quite as absurd as Assassin 33AD where jihadists build a time machine to kill Jesus.
Definitely didn't expect someone else on this forum to bring up Assassin 33 A.D. before me, couldn't be happier.
Dune 1984 is my preferred version and one of my favourite films ever; especially the redux fanedit.
I was quite underwhelmed with Dune: Part One and whilst part two was better, I didn't like all the changes, pandering to certain modern sensibilities and the changing of the ending.
Starship Troopers is also up there for me; Verhoeven is my favourite director and Starship Troopers is Sci-Fi social satire second only to Robocop. Watching it as seventeen year old teen, I can say that most of us got the satirical elements immediately but it probably hit too close to home for certain Americans individuals who took it more literally.
I was quite underwhelmed with Dune: Part One and whilst part two was better, I didn't like all the changes, pandering to certain modern sensibilities and the changing of the ending.
Starship Troopers is also up there for me; Verhoeven is my favourite director and Starship Troopers is Sci-Fi social satire second only to Robocop. Watching it as seventeen year old teen, I can say that most of us got the satirical elements immediately but it probably hit too close to home for certain Americans individuals who took it more literally.
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The Escape from LA basketball and surfing scene are kickass. I love Escape from LA!
It’s awesome that this is still attracting people. Nice that we have a consistent movie space.
Another movie I really like that’s largely disliked is Man of Steel.
Another movie I really like that’s largely disliked is Man of Steel.
I won't get political but it's quite annoying when a satire is either taken seriously by either (or both) tips of the horseshoe (yes I said horseshoe) while normal people just want to enjoy it as one but then gets solicited by either sides.
Like reading 1984 is deemed as bad by some while also being overused in arguments (because people never actually own nor read it and forget that there are also other dystopian novels like Fahrenheit 451 and Brave New World).
I actually read the original Starship Troopers book and while it was much more serious I didn't read anything deemed legitimately problematic and I understand it was written half a century ago.
I enjoy both for different reasons and it's never bad to read and appreciate more books.
I excuse the cheesiness of several scenes just because of how good most of the movie is.
I'd even dare to say that Escape from NY has some serious pacing issues (even for an early 80's movie) imo. Still enjoyable but still sometimes too slow (almost as if it's more like an infiltration movie than an action one... wait a minute! Metal Gear!?).
Absolutely; and I didn't really mean to throw shade at the book; the film wasn't even actually originally written as an adaptation at first, when its title was Bug Hunt at Outpost 7.
John Carpenter considers LA to be the better film, and honestly, I think it is (personally), not to take anything away from New York. I think the "special effects" in New York have aged better, though. I'll always love that shot of the Statue of Liberty's head.
Yeah centrism is a lot more political than you think and in a society that is culturally, politically and legislatively incredibly right-wing (pick your industrial nation of choice here) it's also a lot more right-wing than people realize.
Starship Troopers the movie is very unsubtly a satire on fascist ideologies made by a director who lived through actual fascism as a child. It's deeply dishonest to frame this reading of the movie (as intentioned by the director himself mind you), as a co-opting by Lefties.
Total agreement about centrism, and yeah that is the directors stated intent.
...for conversations sake though, while I think Verhoeven is critiquing the books fascist leanings (accurately, and Heinlein walked back parts of it throughout his life, supposedly he wrote it as something of an angry response and cooled on that with time), the majority of the movie doesn't have a hard satirical edge outside the literal Nazi propaganda sections. Starship Troopers doesn't really go out of it's way to imply that the Earth government is manufacturing the war or anything. It's still a rollicking good-time action movie against monsters from outer space, and most of the movie is still appealing to, say, a white nationalist or something. The attractive, mostly white people save the day against the inhuman "other", that's pretty much what that person would want to see anyways, right?
Not really railing against the movie or Verhoeven, I've just had a similar conversation about Star Trek recently. It is relatively progressive, but I think people are over-eager to ignore the stuff that obviously appeals to right-wing audiences, particularly the original series.
Funny enough there are a couple of hints in the movie that Earth is the one that started it and may actually be manufacturing the threat. Like when they show the distance between Earth and the bug worlds and they are at complete different ends of the milkyway. So even if they shot asteroids at us they would take maybe a billion years to get here.
Granted it may have been a mistake by someone on the film crew, who doesn't know how vast the distances in space are, but it did remind me of the conversation around the Iraq war a couple of years later when it was discovered Saddam's rockets could supposedly fly 200km instead of 150km which made them a "direct threat to America". Those aren't the actual numbers but it was something absurd like that.
I think what makes Verhoeven's satires so good but also so prone to misunderstanding is that the violence in them isn't off-putting but enticing. Starship Troopers is the most distilled example of that since you're basically watching a propaganda movie made in the cosmos of the movie. In that society strength and violence are super fetishized and as the audience you go along with it because you like the characters and the fun action.
About Star Trek. I agree that it's definitely of its time. Stunningly progressive in many ways for a show from the 60s, but there's a lot of the same baggage you find in other western SF of that era (when I occassionally read some of the german pulp SF stuff from my Dad's youth some of it borders on thinly veiled esoteric Nazism). Still, making a show about multi-racial and multi-national space communism a hit in that political climate was a feat. Kudos.
@Parasite_Steve
Verhoeven is definitely too good of an action director not to make his most satirical stuff fun, I agree.
Verhoeven is definitely too good of an action director not to make his most satirical stuff fun, I agree.
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I'll mention a couple that I have inversely proportional views on compared to the majority.
The Fountain (2006) is legit one of my top-ten movies, and the consensus on it ranges from a shrug to outright hatred... and while I always try to understand coherent viewpoints on something it really does baffle me because I think it's a true work of art. The structure and rhythm of it, the aesthetic choices and powerful, *sincere* emotional core, and its totally committed performances. I remember being bewildered when it came out that nobody thought as highly of it as I did.
Constantine has been gaining traction over the past few years. Probably in part thanks to the universal love for Reeves, but people fucking hated this movie on release. I genuinely think it's still one of the best 'comic book' movies ever made. Now, I love our boy Keanu but I don't think he's a good actor at all (he's charismatic and kind of compelling on-screen, but mostly unconvincing in his roles). He does a good enough job here, and I don't even mind the shift to LA and reworking of the character from the books. However, I think the story is really compelling, the supporting cast knocks it out of the park, and its commitment to the lore of its world grounds everything beautifully. I bet when the 4K lands we'll see mucho reappraisal of it.
The Fountain (2006) is legit one of my top-ten movies, and the consensus on it ranges from a shrug to outright hatred... and while I always try to understand coherent viewpoints on something it really does baffle me because I think it's a true work of art. The structure and rhythm of it, the aesthetic choices and powerful, *sincere* emotional core, and its totally committed performances. I remember being bewildered when it came out that nobody thought as highly of it as I did.
Constantine has been gaining traction over the past few years. Probably in part thanks to the universal love for Reeves, but people fucking hated this movie on release. I genuinely think it's still one of the best 'comic book' movies ever made. Now, I love our boy Keanu but I don't think he's a good actor at all (he's charismatic and kind of compelling on-screen, but mostly unconvincing in his roles). He does a good enough job here, and I don't even mind the shift to LA and reworking of the character from the books. However, I think the story is really compelling, the supporting cast knocks it out of the park, and its commitment to the lore of its world grounds everything beautifully. I bet when the 4K lands we'll see mucho reappraisal of it.
Constantine followed in the wake of The League of Extraordinary Gentleman, a dubious forerunner for any movie. The fans who loved the source material saw it as another attempt to "Americanize" a very British Alan Moore story (which, sure, it kind of is that) and reacted harshly. It was also one of Keanu's first big movies after The Matrix trilogy, which kicked off the most backlash to him and his acting I think he ever saw in his career.
It's not a bad movie, Rachel Weisz is a treasure, and you're spot on about the 4K reappraisal, it's coming.
The reason dune 84 is considered bad by some is it takes liberties from the books (namely paul is heroic, instead of a conqueror), personally i agree with you though, dune 84 is my favorite version, nice priss avatar btw.
Hmm for me it would probably be some of the old cannon action films, code of silence, invasion usa, death wish 3 etc, the movies are great fun.
Even the better movies are delving further from the Source Material.
Blade Runner is different than Do Androids Dream of Electric Chips in more than one way.
I also understand the liberties since it's one movie for the three major parts.
The TV series is somehow the closest to the actual book in several ways
especially regarding Paul having a kid.
I'm not sure demolition man is even hated, if it is, it's likely due to political reasons instead of the quality of the movie, which is rather high.
The thing is the dune 84 movie just by making paul heroic, completely alters the meaning of the character and the entire series from the source material, i agree though if you want one more authentic to the books look towards the miniseries, though i personally don't like the books exactly because it's far more dark and dismal than any of the movies, but i'm in the minority with that.
I put a random list. It’s subject to change if I remember more movies. Demo man was mentioned earlier in this thread hence why I added it. I’d like to add movies mentioned here for continuity.
I had to look up what "avgn" and "nostalgia critic" were. Youtuber movies? Those are probably the correct amount of hated, right?
I have forgotten to say that but disaster movies are kinda my guilty pleasure and I unironically like 2012 (the movie from 2009 back when we were all scared of the end of that calendar).
If you see it as a comedic action movie it can be just a fun watch to see how ridiculous they manage to survive all of that.
If you see it as a comedic action movie it can be just a fun watch to see how ridiculous they manage to survive all of that.
The avgn one i think is intentionally bad, nostalgia critic though is just bad in everything he does imo.
I spent way too long thinking about this. x)
The Blair Witch Project is the first one that comes to mind. It was a sensation when it was released, but most people don't seem to be too fond of it in hindsight. It's not perfect by any means, but I still feel it does a good job building atmosphere and is worth a watch.
Pitch Black would be my next choice. Nobody I know who has seen it thinks too highly of it and it's largely forgotten because Riddick isn't the focus. I'd say it's way better than any of the Riddick films, I'm really not a fan of those. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay is an exception, that's a damn fine game. Again, not an amazing film, but I still feel it's a good watch.
Beyond the Black Rainbow doesn't seem to be both well known or well regarded. The consensus seems to be the movie is style over substance, which I can see, but I don't particularly agree with. It has an excellent soundtrack too. Another movie with flaws, but I watched it quite awhile ago and still remember most of it, which is a rarity for a lot of films I've seen since.
As far as game movies go, Super Mario Bros. is a pretty bad Mario film, but a decent watch. It's probably the worst movie I'm going to mention, but there is still creativity in it and fun to be had.
Mortal Kombat has good world building and the plot follows the games close enough. The soundtrack is also a complete banger. The movie's licensed music along with the Mortal Kombat: More Kombat album were hugely influential on my music tastes. It could have used more (and better) fight scenes though. But the biggest flaw of all is that it's a PG-13 rated Mortal Kombat movie. PG-13. MORTAL KOMBAT. What the fuck guys? I know it was all so it'd be viewable to a larger audience and thus make more money, but c'mon. However, Mortal Kombat Annihilation is as hated as it deserves and should stay in the toilet where it belongs.
Also, this scene came from it and it is a treasure.
The Blair Witch Project is the first one that comes to mind. It was a sensation when it was released, but most people don't seem to be too fond of it in hindsight. It's not perfect by any means, but I still feel it does a good job building atmosphere and is worth a watch.
Pitch Black would be my next choice. Nobody I know who has seen it thinks too highly of it and it's largely forgotten because Riddick isn't the focus. I'd say it's way better than any of the Riddick films, I'm really not a fan of those. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay is an exception, that's a damn fine game. Again, not an amazing film, but I still feel it's a good watch.
Beyond the Black Rainbow doesn't seem to be both well known or well regarded. The consensus seems to be the movie is style over substance, which I can see, but I don't particularly agree with. It has an excellent soundtrack too. Another movie with flaws, but I watched it quite awhile ago and still remember most of it, which is a rarity for a lot of films I've seen since.
As far as game movies go, Super Mario Bros. is a pretty bad Mario film, but a decent watch. It's probably the worst movie I'm going to mention, but there is still creativity in it and fun to be had.
Mortal Kombat has good world building and the plot follows the games close enough. The soundtrack is also a complete banger. The movie's licensed music along with the Mortal Kombat: More Kombat album were hugely influential on my music tastes. It could have used more (and better) fight scenes though. But the biggest flaw of all is that it's a PG-13 rated Mortal Kombat movie. PG-13. MORTAL KOMBAT. What the fuck guys? I know it was all so it'd be viewable to a larger audience and thus make more money, but c'mon. However, Mortal Kombat Annihilation is as hated as it deserves and should stay in the toilet where it belongs.
Also, this scene came from it and it is a treasure.
The Star Wars prequels for one. Now I can’t defend the position they are secretly misunderstood masterpieces but each has enough good parts and unique ideas that their existence feels justified. I’d say the sequels get too much hate too, they’re decent if uninspired, but I don’t think the world would be missing much of anything had they never been made. Hard movies to really get angry about and I’m saying this as a Star Wars fan.
From the list above definitely Street fighter and the Mario live action movie. Neither is great but I appreciate how creative and weird they are. Street fighter especially was definitely intended as a lighthearted comedy (according to the director‘s commentary) and works in that regard. The only actor who didn’t get it was supposed to be camp was van Damme which makes it even funnier. It’s a bit of a shame though because he’s actually really charming in comedies.
My soft spot for the Mario movie and similar schlock like double dragon definitely comes from my taste for surreal 90s cheese. They just don’t make em like they used to.
I wasn’t aware there was any hate for demolition man? It’s a classic.
Another movie that gets people weirdly upset is ghostbusters 2. It’s not as good as the first one but it’s decent and I wouldn’t put the original on the same pedestal as other 80s movies like back to the future in the first place.
I’d say the avgn movie and Doug walker‘s stuff don’t get enough flak. The former feels like a total scam in hindsight and the latter not only border on totally unwatchable, they also gained a much darker background when all the abuse at channel awesome came to light.
From the list above definitely Street fighter and the Mario live action movie. Neither is great but I appreciate how creative and weird they are. Street fighter especially was definitely intended as a lighthearted comedy (according to the director‘s commentary) and works in that regard. The only actor who didn’t get it was supposed to be camp was van Damme which makes it even funnier. It’s a bit of a shame though because he’s actually really charming in comedies.
My soft spot for the Mario movie and similar schlock like double dragon definitely comes from my taste for surreal 90s cheese. They just don’t make em like they used to.
I wasn’t aware there was any hate for demolition man? It’s a classic.
Another movie that gets people weirdly upset is ghostbusters 2. It’s not as good as the first one but it’s decent and I wouldn’t put the original on the same pedestal as other 80s movies like back to the future in the first place.
I’d say the avgn movie and Doug walker‘s stuff don’t get enough flak. The former feels like a total scam in hindsight and the latter not only border on totally unwatchable, they also gained a much darker background when all the abuse at channel awesome came to light.
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