Non-Gaming Hot Takes

[Ikagura]

I don't have the energy to explain my reaction fully, so I'll say this:

By using a word for people with certain neurodivergent condition for people simply being assholes, you're implying that having said neurodivergent condition and being an asshole are intrinsically related.

Okay I don't want to argue here but I said behaviour not that he was one.

I'd also say that having a condition doesn't make someone immune nor excuses everything either.

Maybe I should've said that he's just antisocial.

Yeah it was harsh for just being dipper but I don't think he means it literally, it's like when people say "he's crazy"

Even the the word "idiot" was the term of a medical condition.


Anyway, I'm glad the show didn't last long enough so that they got flanderized.

hollywood people are lazy.

Modern Pixar has lost its magic as well.

PS: Maybe I'm over-analysing things but I feel that male protagonists in modern cartoons are almost always nerdy and not really the courageous type compared to decades prior (while we got more confident female protagonists around). I know that there's always a shift of popularity in archetypes but a nice balance could be good to see. Same with fathers being either absent or completely clumsy/immature that we got since the Simpsons.

 

[Jeanfranc]

Why are they reusing the same character design as him?
View attachment 18878

Because it's the ideal male body

 

[MasterEn]

View attachment 18883
Because it's the ideal male body

so you're showing us a sneak peak of the live action remake? neet.

 

[fake-kun]

Okay I don't want to argue here but I said behaviour not that he was one.

I'd also say that having a condition doesn't make someone immune nor excuses everything either.

Maybe I should've said that he's just antisocial.

I disagree with your argument, but I have no energy for this debate, so I'll stop here.

 

[miguk]

And it's still pushing the envelope, because almost everyone else backs away from the topics they make fun of and it still offends people who take themselves too seriously and makes the rest laugh
The people I've met love its satire

I was being hyperbolic with "dumb", saying "its just good cause they didnt know any better" is old man beheaviour if you ask me, and "the audience just doesnt get the topic" is smug behraviour

Is it always a good thing to go towards something that everyone else is trying to escape? You don't dive into a dumpster fire when even the rats are running from the trash heap.

And people take it seriously because "just having a laugh" isn't an excuse in itself. In fact, that shows the darker side of the South Park audience: that attitude of "shut up, minorities, and let me laugh at minorities" looms over every argument in their favor. It's pretending that everyone else is a prude when in reality they actually know — not think, but know — that SP's comedy is objectively badly made vapid punch-down humor with shallow depth underneath it.

"The people I've met" is a poor citation I could easily counter with the opposite claim. Avatar made over $1 billion despite being a shallow rehash of previous films (as well as being called out as racist by Slavoj Žižek); popularity does not measure artistic value.

"Being hyperbolic" the way you did it is dishonest. What you did is strawmanning, which, like I said, makes you look like you can't defend your opinion. You're also using a "no you" argument, which is not appropriate for mature discussion.

Kids don't know things. Grade schoolers don't study macroeconomics or other topics from the show. High schoolers rarely do, and even college freshmen tend to be ignorant. I don't get how you don't understand that. Kids were their target audience from the start, and that was proven early on; that's why they were forced to stop selling t-shirts to little kids. They didn't target an audience who would challenge their ability to talk on the topics because they weren't going to succeed with them.

I'll say it but I would've watched more of South Park if it wasn't for its gratuitous use of toilet based humour and shenanigans.


Sorry but, when I watch a show on my computer, human waste material is probably the last thing I would like to see (especially when I'm having a meal in front).

On the other hand I liked some other jokes or references even if they forced a bit too much on gore.

South Park eventually became a parody of itself at some point.

The repetitive structure and jokes made it pretty close to self-parody from early on. Tons of episodes are basically this:

Stan: Wow, snowy day, huh?
Kyle: Yeah.
Cartman: Shut up, ⛥⛥⛥!
Stan: Hey, is that a person doing something that doesn't conform?
Kyle: Yeah, he's opening a local business that competes with our corporate overlords! Let's go check it out!
Cartman: I'm going to go do anti-semite stuff.
Stan: Hi strawman we're about to criticise! What are you doing?
Strawman: I'm trying to be all different and stuff with my local coffee shop that employs local people! Hippie-dippie, yo! Also, there's a guy with Turrets here.
Turrets Guy: §§§§ COMING OUT OF MY ※※※! §§§§ COMING OUT OF MY ※※※!§§§§ COMING OUT OF MY ※※※!
Kyle: Wow, Turrets Guy, anyone who says you are an unfunny joke must hate Turrets people!
Stan: Oh God, why would you want to run a hippie communist shop! Here, drink some Starbucks!
Strawman: Wow, the generic flavor of Starbucks is better than all independent coffee shops in the world! I'm going to close my shop, sign up for a lower paying non-union fast food job, and tell all my friends that Augusto Pinochet did nothing wrong!
Kyle: That's the right attitude!
Turrets Guy: §§§§ COMING OUT OF MY ※※※!
Stan: I learned something today. Independence from and resistance to corporate supremacy is the road to becoming a leech on society. Furthermore, if we allow those currently in power to do what they want without any opposition, we will surely reach the capitalist utopia fortold in diatribes found in newsletters from groups that have all your best interests in mind.
Strawman: Spoken like a true 4th grader.
Cartman: I'm back to say ⛥⛥⛥ again.
Turrets Guy: §§§§ COMING OUT OF MY ※※※!

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Why are they reusing the same character design as him?
View attachment 18878

In this one case I think they were both based on the same voice actor; but in general:
I've talked about it before on my profile, it's because nowdays toons and shows are AAALL made by the same guys...
Thats why I say "LA writers", they were always made in LA yeah but nowdaysb the guys living there and working in the entertainment all have the same education, same mentality, same worldview, same group of friends, so you're gonna get samey-stuff

You take past pixar movies and they were so distinct from one another, or you take the 90s and 2000s and you'd never mix up animaniacs with ren and stimpy, or batman with samurai jack even if its the same genre

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

Is it always a good thing to go towards something that everyone else is trying to escape? You don't dive into a dumpster fire when even the rats are running from the trash heap.

And people take it seriously because "just having a laugh" isn't an excuse in itself. In fact, that shows the darker side of the South Park audience: that attitude of "shut up, minorities, and let me laugh at minorities" looms over every argument in their favor. It's pretending that everyone else is a prude when in reality they actually know — not think, but know — that SP's comedy is objectively badly made vapid punch-down humor with shallow depth underneath it.

"The people I've met" is a poor citation I could easily counter with the opposite claim. Avatar made over $1 billion despite being a shallow rehash of previous films (as well as being called out as racist by Slavoj Žižek); popularity does not measure artistic value.

"Being hyperbolic" the way you did it is dishonest. What you did is strawmanning, which, like I said, makes you look like you can't defend your opinion. You're also using a "no you" argument, which is not appropriate for mature discussion.

Kids don't know things. Grade schoolers don't study macroeconomics or other topics from the show. High schoolers rarely do, and even college freshmen tend to be ignorant. I don't get how you don't understand that. Kids were their target audience from the start, and that was proven early on; that's why they were forced to stop selling t-shirts to little kids. They didn't target an audience who would challenge their ability to talk on the topics because they weren't going to succeed with them.

If you think theres stuff you shouldnt laught at or it's "punching down" you are a prude who takes himself too seriosuly, that's why it's funny and show always has material; I didnt "defend" my opinion I just said it makes me laugh theres nothing else to it

yeah I said "the people I've met" cause you did, to show it's a dumb point cause everyone can claim something if they go "Well I met these guys.."
Who?

Idk what was "no you" about the reply

Yeah and claiming the show dosnt know what it jokes about cause you know better is smug

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

PS: Maybe I'm over-analysing things but I feel that male protagonists in modern cartoons are almost always nerdy and not really the courageous type compared to decades prior (while we got more confident female protagonists around). I know that there's always a shift of popularity in archetypes but a nice balance could be good to see. Same with fathers being either absent or completely clumsy/immature that we got since the Simpsons.

Also the girl has to be a quirky outcast, when it's every single time it gets dull

 

[Tonberry]

"shut up, minorities, and let me laugh at minorities"

This is really common when trying to talk about The Boondocks with people, which I think is a way better show.

 

[Ikagura]

I didn't want to argue then they're being tired. Fine then.

Is it always a good thing to go towards something that everyone else is trying to escape? You don't dive into a dumpster fire when even the rats are running from the trash heap.

And people take it seriously because "just having a laugh" isn't an excuse in itself. In fact, that shows the darker side of the South Park audience: that attitude of "shut up, minorities, and let me laugh at minorities" looms over every argument in their favor. It's pretending that everyone else is a prude when in reality they actually know — not think, but know — that SP's comedy is objectively badly made vapid punch-down humor with shallow depth underneath it.

"The people I've met" is a poor citation I could easily counter with the opposite claim. Avatar made over $1 billion despite being a shallow rehash of previous films (as well as being called out as racist by Slavoj Žižek); popularity does not measure artistic value.

"Being hyperbolic" the way you did it is dishonest. What you did is strawmanning, which, like I said, makes you look like you can't defend your opinion. You're also using a "no you" argument, which is not appropriate for mature discussion.

Kids don't know things. Grade schoolers don't study macroeconomics or other topics from the show. High schoolers rarely do, and even college freshmen tend to be ignorant. I don't get how you don't understand that. Kids were their target audience from the start, and that was proven early on; that's why they were forced to stop selling t-shirts to little kids. They didn't target an audience who would challenge their ability to talk on the topics because they weren't going to succeed with them.

The repetitive structure and jokes made it pretty close to self-parody from early on. Tons of episodes are basically this: [snip]

Honestly I don't really find that great on the long run that they could say stuff like the n word or other slurs.

We're the first to mock Vivzie's shows for dropping f-bombs all the time or when in R&M we get to see them saying swear words just for the sake of it (since it's an "adult sitcom") so why SP would be that different.?


Hell, even beeping could work better as a comical element than gratuitous insults.

In this one case I think they were both based on the same voice actor; but in general:
I've talked about it before on my profile, it's because nowdays toons and shows are AAALL made by the same guys...
Thats why I say "LA writers", they were always made in LA yeah but nowdaysb the guys living there and working in the entertainment all have the same education, same mentality, same worldview, same group of friends, so you're gonna get samey-stuff

You take past pixar movies and they were so distinct from one another, or you take the 90s and 2000s and you'd never mix up animaniacs with ren and stimpy, or batman with samurai jack even if its the same genre

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

If you think theres stuff you shouldnt laught at or it's "punching down" you are a prude who takes himself too seriosuly, that's why it's funny and show always has material; I didnt "defend" my opinion I just said it makes me laugh theres nothing else to it

yeah I said "the people I've met" cause you did, to show it's a dumb point cause everyone can claim something if they go "Well I met these guys.."

Idk what was "no you" about the reply

Yeah and claiming the show dosnt know what it jokes about cause you know better is smug

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

Also the girl has to be a quirky outcast, when it's every single time it gets dull

Some called it the "Bean mouth" or Calart style era.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

This is really common when trying to talk about The Boondocks with people, which I think is a way better show.

That show's great too

Post automatically merged: Jan 29, 2025

Some called it the "Bean mouth" or Calart style era.

Yeah and that's visual, but writing wise too, the animaniacs reboot reeks of it, same jokes I've heard for the last 9 years

 

[Tonberry]

We're the first to mock Vivzie's shows for dropping f-bombs all the time

I think it works differently for different shows. To me, Vivzie’s shows are edgy for edgy’s sake and it just falls completely flat on its face because of it, regardless of quirky character designs, and even then they started out as internet cartoons, which is a medium that has virtually zero boundaries compared to TV.

I think swearing is better than beeping because people swear in real life, it’s no big deal and just adds a tiny bit of color to the script generally.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Honestly I don't really find that great on the long run that they could say stuff like the n word or other slurs.

We're the first to mock Vivzie's shows for dropping f-bombs all the time or when in R&M we get to see them saying swear words just for the sake of it (since it's an "adult sitcom") so why SP would be that different.?

Hazbin Hotel is the posterbody of safe edgy, it would've been offensive and scandalous like 20 years ago
Biblical stuff is like the safest possible target you could pick after CEOs and lawywers, cartoon characters swearing hasn't been fresh since I was born

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2025

I think it works differently for different shows. To me, Vivzie’s shows are edgy for edgy’s sake and it just falls completely flat on its face because of it, regardless of quirky character designs, and even then they started out as internet cartoons, which is a medium that has virtually zero boundaries compared to TV.

I think swearing is better than beeping because people swear in real life, it’s no big deal and just adds a tiny bit of color to the script generally.

That's another thing, it's the internet, you're not being rebellious against anything you can say anything here; I can think of 20 internet animations more hardcore than HH

Beeping Can be funny but if it was every single time itd get grating

 

[Somnia]

These are the same people that got brainwashed into thinking that LCDs where better than CRTs and allowed them to be replaced.

I feel like that was pretty inevitable regardless, considering how much cheaper modern panels are to make than CRTs. As HD, form factor and panel size became bigger factors, CRTs lost almost all of those battles in terms of cost efficiency and general convenience. I still wish they stuck around for hobbyists, but I can't blame most users for abandoning them, especially when HD CRTs lose almost all of the benefits that CRTs have for non-HD content. The benefits over HD LCDs were mostly just alternatives, not straight up improvements. There's a reason that the CRT community doesn't look back on HD CRTs fondly.

Manufacturers and retailers benefit from having far less bulky, costly product to make, ship and store. Consumers lose basically nothing for HD content and for the handful of hobbyists that care about pre-HD stuff, they'll have a CRT lying around or at least in the 2000s and early 2010s have easy access to decent CRTs secondhand. Its only in the last 10ish years where the complete abandonment of CRTs has become an issue and its only for a mostly-dwindling set of hobbyists who both vastly prefer and want to seek out those types of monitors.

 

[miguk]

If you think theres stuff you shouldnt laught at or it's "punching down" you are a prude who takes himself too seriosuly, that's why it's funny and show always has material; I didnt "defend" my opinion I just said it makes me laugh theres nothing else to it

yeah I said "the people I've met" cause you did, to show it's a dumb point cause everyone can claim something if they go "Well I met these guys.."
Who?

Idk what was "no you" about the reply

Yeah and claiming the show dosnt know what it jokes about cause you know better is smug

Are you familiar with the term "punching down"? You sounds like you either don't get what I'm talking about or are purposely avoiding it. Punching down is making jokes at the expense of marginalized groups. It's why I said that these pro-SP arguments all end up resorting to "shut up, minorities, and let me make fun of minorities." It's not just making jokes, but demanding the people who are the butt of them say nothing about how horrible, both in terms of craft and ethics, the joke is.

And now you are calling me a prude for justifying my opinion. Rule #1: be civil. And seriously, if you've been here for even a few days, you know nobody here would call me a prude. Weirdo? Yes. Pervert? Also yes. But prude? You're alone on that.

I'm calling you out on making a weak retcon of your own argument. You didn't make a weak argument to give an example of a weak argument; you just made a weak argument and are now trying to save face after the fact. That's blatantly clear and no one is going to believe your retcon. You'd do better to just admit you made a mistake than double down on it, since the former actually saves face and the latter never works.

"No you" is the "you're the old man yelling at clouds" that you keep doing. It's the same thing kids do when they aren't winning: "Nuh uh, I didn't lose, you're the loser, loser Mcloserface!" It's utterly immature; give it a rest already. (Again, Rule #1: be civil.)

And as I said before, try not to take art criticism so personally. YOU are not being judged; the art is. If you can't separate yourself from the art, that's not my problem, and not something I, or anyone else, should be criticized for; that's your issue to work out on your own. Educated adults handle this sort of thing all the time; you can try holding yourself to such a standard.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Are you familiar with the term "punching down"? You sounds like you either don't get what I'm talking about or are purposely avoiding it. Punching down is making jokes at the expense of marginalized groups. It's why I said that these pro-SP arguments all end up resorting to "shut up, minorities, and let me make fun of minorities." It's not just making jokes, but demanding the people who are the butt of them say nothing about how horrible, both in terms of craft and ethics, the joke is.

And now you are calling me a prude for justifying my opinion. Rule #1: be civil. And seriously, if you've been here for even a few days, you know nobody here would call me a prude. Weirdo? Yes. Pervert? Also yes. But prude? You're alone on that.

I'm calling you out on making a weak retcon of your own argument. You didn't make a weak argument to give an example of a weak argument; you just made a weak argument and are now trying to save face after the fact. That's blatantly clear and no one is going to believe your retcon. You'd do better to just admit you made a mistake than double down on it, since the former actually saves face and the latter never works.

"No you" is the "you're the old man yelling at clouds" that you keep doing. It's the same thing kids do when they aren't winning: "Nuh uh, I didn't lose, you're the loser, loser Mcloserface!" It's utterly immature; give it a rest already. (Again, Rule #1: be civil.)

And as I said before, try not to take art criticism so personally. YOU are not being judged; the art is. If you can't separate yourself from the art, that's not my problem, and not something I, or anyone else, should be criticized for; that's your issue to work out on your own. Educated adults handle this sort of thing all the time; you can try holding yourself to such a standard.

I am familiar with it, I put it in quotes because I think it's stupid, I dont think anything is above being made fun of

You didnt justify your opinion, you were smugly saying you're objectively right and everyone else can't see it: "it's pretending that everyone else is a prude when in reality they actually know — not think, but know — that SP's comedy is objectively badly made vapid punch-down humor with shallow depth underneath it" and I thought it was condescending and I think getting offended at dark humor is prudish

If you think calling you a prude it's going too far idk what to tell you, sorry I guess? ppl here had bantered in a way harsher tone, I've seen a guy go like "what you make will never amount to anything" and the guy replied "duly noted" and it ended there

Well I do think you're your own accusation, I dont think the writers of south park are yelling at clouds but I think that argument sounded like kyle's mom; it doesnt mean I think you're a monster or anything I'm just talking bout cartoons

I didnt take anything personally man

 

[Tonberry]

I don’t want to butt into your discussion, but I just wanted to chime in with that I think that SP lost its edge a long time ago, when Matt and Trey became libertarians and still tried to ”swing both ways”, and that was like at least 20 years ago.

Nowadays it’s even safer than ever. ”wow streaming services are bad omg!”

The best episodes are the ones where the kids are just being kids reacting to the world around them but still just being impressionable and way less judgmental than the adults in the show ever were.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

I don’t want to butt into your discussion, but I just wanted to chime in with that I think that SP lost its edge a long time ago, when Matt and Trey became libertarians and still tried to ”swing both ways”, and that was like at least 20 years ago.

Nowadays it’s even safer than ever. ”wow streaming services are bad omg!”

The best episodes are the ones where the kids are just being kids reacting to the world around them but still just being impressionable and way less judgmental than the adults in the show ever were.

Anyone can join in!

 

[MasterEn]

Anyone can join in!

i'll be joining back in soon, i got to get a drawing ready first.

 

[Tonberry]

Katanas will never be as cool as Longswords, but the Sabre has them both beat.

 

[miguk]

I am familiar with it, I put it in quotes because I think it's stupid, I dont think anything is above being made fun of

You didnt justifying your opinion, you were smugly saying you're objectively right and everyone else can't see it: "it's pretending that everyone else is a prude when in reality they actually know — not think, but know — that SP's comedy is objectively badly made vapid punch-down humor with shallow depth underneath it"

I you think calling you a prude it's going too far idk what to tell you, sorry I guess? Ppl here had bantered in a way harsher tone, I've seen a guy go like "whatn you make will never amount to anything"

Well I do think you're your own accusation, I dont think the writers of south park are yelling at clouds but I think that argument sounded like cartman's mom; it doesnt mean I think you're a monster or anything I'm just talking bout cartoons

I didnt take anything personally man

Oh boy, you do not want to use "anything" in that first sentence. Because we're talking about punching down, you now sound like you're supporting racist jokes, jokes about the Shoah, rape jokes, homophobic jokes, and other garbage that fits within "anything" in the punching down category. I can accuse you of supporting any kind of beyond the pale joke because you said you support all of them.

This isn't Pokémon, and I am not Smugleaf. That's more incivility. You are pushing it.

I've explained the objectively bad part before, which you've ignored. Did you even understand what "strawman" meant? That it is punch-down humor is something even you don't deny. As for shallow depth, my example script showed what I meant. (I even used an actual joke from the show in it.)

Now you are retconning an insult as banter. You gave no clear indication that it was banter. There was nothing playful in your statements. Saying "you're a prude" contains nothing akin to a joke that could be interpreted as one. You're not really apologizing; you're trying to make me look like I'm at fault. And you are failing at that.

Look up "ad hominem fallacy". You really need to learn why that is a total failure of logic if you think you are completely justified in it. You are NOT arguing against my opinion by slinging insults at me; you are arguing against ME while failing to address my opinion. Your argument is invalid by resorting to namecalling, and I would go so far as to say you simply do not have any real defense for your perspective — because if you did, you would do JUST THAT.

(And before you throw another "no you" at me, I've stuck to only 2 things: ① giving my opinion on the show's problems and ② pointing out the problems with your incivility.)

And leaving that last insult at "sounds like Cartman's mom" without any further explanation isn't a very good attempt at a crypto-insult; I know that means "sounds like a bitch" to South Park fans.

I would rather not give Spike another pile of reports, but this is getting absurd.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Oh boy, you do not want to use "anything" in that first sentence. Because we're talking about punching down, you now sound like you're supporting racist jokes, jokes about the Shoah, rape jokes, homophobic jokes, and other garbage that fits within "anything" in the punching down category. I can accuse you of supporting any kind of beyond the pale joke because you said you support all of them.

Doesn't south park make fun of all of that?

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2025

And leaving that last insult at "sounds like Cartman's mom" without any further explanation isn't a very good attempt at a crypto-insult; I know that means "sounds like a bitch."

I would rather not give Spike another pile of reports, but this is getting absurd.

No it's cause kyle's mom's whole thing was "you can't joke about X!" (I wrote cartman's by mistake)

 

[Tonberry]

Oh boy, you do not want to use "anything" in that first sentence. Because we're talking about punching down, you now sound like you're supporting racist jokes, jokes about the Shoah, rape jokes, homophobic jokes, and other garbage that fits within "anything" in the punching down category. I can accuse you of supporting any kind of beyond the pale joke because you said you support all of them.

This isn't Pokémon, and I am not Smugleaf. That's more incivility. You are pushing it.

I've explained the objectively bad part before, which you've ignored. Did you even understand what "strawman" meant? That it is punch-down humor is something even you don't deny. As for shallow depth, my example script showed what I meant. (I even used an actual joke from the show in it.)

Now you are retconning an insult as banter. You gave no clear indication that it was banter. There was nothing playful in your statements. Saying "you're a prude" contains nothing akin to a joke that could be interpreted as one. You're not really apologizing; you're trying to make me look like I'm at fault. And you are failing at that.

Look up "ad hominem fallacy". You really need to learn why that is a total failure of logic if you think you are completely justified in it. You are NOT arguing against my opinion by slinging insults at me; you are arguing against ME while failing to address my opinion. Your argument is invalid by resorting to namecalling, and I would go so far as to say you simply do not have any real defense for your perspective — because if you did, you would do JUST THAT.

(And before you throw another "no you" at me, I've stuck to only 2 things: ① giving my opinion on the show's problems and ② pointing out the problems with your incivility.)

And leaving that last insult at "sounds like Cartman's mom" without any further explanation isn't a very good attempt at a crypto-insult; I know that means "sounds like a bitch" to South Park fans.

I would rather not give Spike another pile of reports, but this is getting absurd.

You’re getting way too hostile about this. People are allowed to like/dislike media for reasons you disagree with.

Also, chill out with the backseat moderating.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

Seriously bro if you're gonna be like "I'm calling Spike" let's just drop this, he's got better things two do than policing two dum-dums talking about cartoons

I'm sorry I called you a prude ok?

 

[Waffles]

*Sighs*.

We all want the topic to remain open, right? Please chill out and refer to rule #1.

 

[Skeetos]

Man this topic went bad fast. I mean I might disagree with other people here and agree with others, but that's all it is at the end of the day, an opinion. I like South Park a lot, and Gravity Falls is pretty cool too, but I think people are allowed to disagree on this stuff. I hope everyone has a good day and doesn't let this frustrate them. Try to enjoy the discussion instead of biting each others heads off.

 

[Tonberry]

I think showering blows.

This doesn’t mean I’m a filthy pig of course lol, I always shower. I just hate the feeling of having to stand there all vulnerable and awkward like while getting soaked. It’s not a relaxing experience at all to me!