AMA IaMA Gorse: Ask me Anything! (AMA)

[Gorse]

Have you gave either a try?

This is a far bigger rant than your question deserves, but to answer simply: No, I haven't, because isekai anime are pretty much the antithesis of everything I like. I don't like Western fantasy tropes at all (except for a few very notable exceptions like Discworld and Queen's Blade), I don't like modern anime writing or character designs, and I don't really like the concept behind any of these dumb shows. They're just (IN MY OPINION) safe, boring slop pumped out for modern anime audiences: moronic, Twitter-addicted Americans between the ages of 18 and 35.

I don't particularly like any anime made after 2017 or so. The medium's explosion of popularity with Western audiences in the mid-2010s basically killed it for me – I only like stuff from before that time. Everything I feared about it becoming too popular was correct and came to pass in the worst manner possible. I must be some kind of psychic, except I can only see into futures of poo.

 

[Yousef]

This is a far bigger rant than your question deserves, but to answer simply:

Heh, rant as much as you like. I don’t mind. If anything, questions like these are perfect for AMAs.

No, I haven't, because isekai anime are pretty much the antithesis of everything I like.

Fair. You’re not missing much.

I don't like Western fantasy tropes at all

Same here. WRPGs are still something i struggle to give an honest go.

(except for a few very notable exceptions like Discworld and Queen's Blade),

I love queen’s blade! The little crossovers they had were also quite cute.

I don't like modern anime writing or character designs, and I don't really like the concept behind any of these dumb shows. They're just (IN MY OPINION)

It’s not opinion, it’s fact.

safe, boring slop pumped out for modern anime audiences: moronic, Twitter-addicted Americans between the ages of 18 and 35.

Well, frankly… look I know I’m splitting hairs here (trust me, you’re not truly conversing with me unless I start doing this) but I still don’t acknowledge Japanese animators have a real awareness of western audiences. I think these are actually appealing to the Japanese folks. We might romanticize Japanese people a lot, But there’s a ton of them with really shallow tastes too.

But tomatoes, tamatos, am I right?

I don't particularly like any anime made after 2017 or so.

I’ve a hard time naming a lot I like too.

The medium's explosion of popularity with Western audiences in the mid-2010s basically killed it for me – I only like stuff from before that time. Everything I feared about it becoming too popular was correct and came to pass in the worst manner possible. I must be some kind of psychic, except I can only see into futures of poo.

Hmmmm if it’s any consolation, it wasn’t better here either. I’ve not really been in English speaking communities thar long, I was in a lot of arab-only anime communities in 2010-2015, didn’t like using English or learning so I stuck to mostly Arabic and speaking to other Arabs so I have inside knowledge to verify the giant anime boom happened here around the exact same time too. 2013 is the year id narrow things, with attack on titan being the real culprit along crunchyroll. If you wanna blame anyone, believe me, blame those two. But enough history stuff.

I fixated on AOT because it broke the pattern of an anime popular due to airing here, most anime that were popular here have already aired here, fully dubbed as well. AOT was not, so I heavily antagonized it for years and was really mad any time I saw it or any time my friends wouldn’t understand my rants about it.

But that’s behind me. I don’t hate it anymore. It’s one of the few modern shows I like now.

Have you seen akame ga kill or Tokyo ghoul?

 

[Gorse]

We might romanticize Japanese people a lot, But there’s a ton of them with really shallow tastes too.

Absolutely. I've said this before, but Japan (and by "Japan" I mean "the Japanese entertainment industry", I'm just using the country's name for the sake of a snappy sentence which I've now completely ruined by adding this parenthetical interjection) isn't the country I fell in love with when I was a kid, anymore.

attack on titan being the real culprit along crunchyroll.

I've heard a lot of people say that AoT was the one that started the whole shebang, and I certainly see how they'd come to that conclusion – it was a huge show! – but I personally point the finger at One Punch Man. That show had a very American concept (superheroes) that was "beginner-friendly" enough to get a lot of people into the medium, and the ball rolled from there (and kept going straight into the septic tank). It also had lots of zany anime tropes that people could drone endlessly about to each other on Twitter. ISN'T ANIME CRAZY??? Somebody kill me ASAP.

Crunchyroll is definitely the devil, though.

Have you seen akame ga kill or Tokyo ghoul?

I have not! I don't even know either of them on a surface level. I only like anime about girls with their big fat boobs out.

 

[Yousef]

So since sonic discourse is kinda poisonous, I will inevitably ask you this. Do you have any particularly strong feelings towards the 3D entries? Mainly the big hits like unleashed, heroes and what have you.

 

[Tonberry]

but I personally point the finger at One Punch Man. That show had a very American concept (superheroes) that was "beginner-friendly" enough to get a lot of people into the medium, and the ball rolled from there (and kept going straight into the septic tank). It also had lots of zany anime tropes that people could drone endlessly about to each other on Twitter. ISN'T ANIME CRAZY??? Somebody kill me ASAP.

Not to butt in or anything, but I don't think anime becomine giga popular in America is what caused this stagnation or what have you you're speaking of. I'm inclined to agree with Yousef that while it's really easy to have this "they just cater to westerners now!" lense, I don't really see how that's true at all, and Japanese people are drawn to safe, trendy next-big-thing stuff just as much as anywhere else. Superheroes in anime/manga was a really short-lived craze like 9 years ago, and the only really big ones with any sort of staying power (particularly in the west) are One Punch Man and My Hero Academia. It's just trends, like how right now, all of shonen is seemingly just occult stuff. That's just one demographic though, but it's definitely the stuff that gets the most traction outside of Japan.

Since at least the 70s, japanese media (like American media) has had this pattern of going extremely hard into a certain craze for it to later become out-of-fashion or niche seemingly over night. The 70s had mecha, the 80s had martial arts, the 90s had a lot of experimental stuff but also sparked the whole "shonen revival" period with big manga created by people who worshipped Dragon Ball. I'd argue the 2020s are returning to alot more variety in shows, at least from what I've skimmed. But there's just as much shlock as ever, too. It's just never been so easily accessible to westerners as it is now, and I can't really see how that would be a bad thing.
Unless you're just a hipster of course (which is valid too)!

I'm not an avid weeaboo or anything, I watch maybe one new show a year, if even that, I just like being an anal wiseguy.

 

[Gorse]

Do you have any particularly strong feelings towards the 3D entries?

Sonic Adventure 1 is my favourite game – like, ever! I love everything about it to bits. I think all the different gameplay modes are fun, and I think the game has an excellent sense of variety without wading into "distracting side nonsense" (which is my #1 most hated thing in any platformer game). It was a very good choice to cordon off each character into their own individual, distinct storyline that you could tackle however you wanted to (an area that I think SA2 falls down in). The game's music and visuals (in the original version, not SADX) are immaculate, the level design is really excellent (in my humblest of opinions, many would disagree), and I actually like the game's disaster movie story and atmosphere a lot.

It's a game that I like everything in, and dislike nothing in, so it gets a big kiss – the biggest one in gaming, in fact – from me. I know that opinion is coloured by nostalgia, but, well, I don't give a hoot. GOTTA OPEN YOUR HEART DUUUUUUDE

Quick thoughts on the other ones (yeah fucking right, nothing I ever say is quick except the gooning stuff):

• Sonic Adventure 2: GREAT GAME!!!!!!, though I do think it's inferior to SA1 in a few key areas. I love all the gameplay modes in this, too, but the fact that you're forced into playing them how the game wants to you is a big problem. Still, though, excellent levels (except Mad Space, yikes that one sucks), lots of lovely characters to enjoy (though I do miss Amy's, Big's, and Tails' original gameplay), some really neat-o bosses, really terrific music, and, again, a cool sci-fi action movie storyline. I really do think it's a step back from SA1, but I love the game to pieces now just as much as I did when I was a tot.

• Sonic Heroes: HATE IT!!!!!! Even as a kid, I knew something was wrong with this game the moment I popped it in. (I actually rented it first, then bought a full copy, so I clearly couldn't have hated it that much at the time.) The game is dreadfully buggy, some of the teams aren't fun to play at all (especially Chaotix), I hate how enemies and bosses have full-on health bars (everything has a fucking health bar in this game), and the levels are chock-full of some really awful, clunky gimmicks.
  • The music is good, and the game does have a certain unique atmosphere (that it shares with Billy Hatcher and the early Puyo Puyo Fever games), but all the characters come off as really dopey, and the voice acting is atrocious. The special stages are also like a form of torture, and easily the worst in the series. IT SUCKS

• Shadow the Hedgehog: Despite owning this game, I only played this game a small bit because I really didn't jibe with the mission-based structure of it. I actually don't want to do missions in a Sonic (or even a Shadow) game, and I certainly don't want to have to beat every level a minimum of eight times to reach the final boss. I know a lot of people from my generation now love this game, but I thought it was poo and the time and barely touched it. The multiplayer was pretty fun, though, and I must admit the story has a certain sense of gravitas to it (though I don't really see how it connects to Sonic Heroes that well).

• Sonic '06: NEVER PLAYED IT; PROBABLY SHIT!!!! I didn't own a 7th-gen console that ran this game, but I'd certainly try it out if I did. My sole experience with it is watching the Game Grumps playthrough, which was quite funny at the time. Nice soundtrack, though.

• Sonic and the Secret Rings / Sonic and the Black Knight: NEVER PLAYED THEM; PROBABLY SHIT!!!! Just being aware of SatSR's control scheme makes me want to take my own life – I'm sure I'd hate the game. I guess people like Black Knight now, but the game doesn't really appeal to me at all. I don't really want Sonic to have a sword and run around in Arthurian times... I'm pretty apathetic about both of these games.

• Sonic Unleashed: Me and my friends loved the Wii version of this game at the time – it felt like a proper follow-up to SA2 moreso than any other 3D Sonic game that came out before it. (In terms of world-building and storyline.) I'd already cut my teeth on the first Rush game, so I was familiar with (and not entirely against) boosting down simplified, race-track like levels, and I did have quite a bit of fun in the daytime stages. That said, I didn't like the Werehog stuff at all, and that's, like, 85% of the game, so I only ever beat it once and never returned to it. I don't really think I'd like the daytime stages if I went back and played them today... they're just so simple and bland.
  • And I've never touched the HD version. I guess if I ever get a good enough computer, I'll run the recompilation, but I can't imagine it'll be a high priority for me. Again, though, great OST.

• Sonic Colors: Excellent presentation, shit game. I was really, really hyped for this one when I first saw the release trailer all those years ago, and, unbelievably, I actually bought a framed poster of this image from Wal-Mart that hung in my bedroom for one summer before promptly being tucked away. When I got the game, though, I was really disappointed. I was expecting a unique, quirky, colorful 3D Sonic game, and what I got was a bunch of sub-NES-level 2D platforming stages, insultingly easy bosses, and embarrassingly-short 3D segments where you hold the boost button. This game has a really great sense of style, and I think it's the best-written Pontac & Graff one – some of the lines are quite funny, even today – but I don't like playing it at all. The DS game was pretty good, though.

• Sonic Generations: ONLY EVER PLAYED A SMALL BIT OF IT; DIDN'T REALLY CARE FOR IT!!!! I had the PC version of this game, but no laptop I've ever owned could run it well without being choppy, so I've only beaten the GHZ levels and can't give a fair assessment. I'd actually like to play the remake quite a bit – maybe one day I'll buy it for Switch 2 or something.
  • I have some fond memories of the 3DS version, but it's a very bland game and has a pretty poor set of levels. Interesting extras, but it's kind of like a worse version of a Rush game... not up to the standards of any Sonic DS outing.

[TO BE CONTINUED...]

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

Bump?

 

[Gorse]

[CONTINUED FROM ABOVE, NEBULON GETS A BIG WET KISS RIGHT ON THE MOUTH]

• Sonic Lost World: This is a weeeeeird game. I really like the first two worlds – they're very, very fun, and some of the best Sonic gameplay I'd had since the Adventure games. But after World 2 ends, they completely ran out of ideas, and the rest of the game is a tedious slog of gimmick stages, Colors-style 2D platforming levels, and horrible, horrible bosses. For the reason detailed below, I never finished it, and I've never gone back to it. I suppose it all averages out to being mediocre? The game has a really dumb, bland, poorly-written plot, and I don't really like the graphics or any of the music. Everyone who dismissed Lost World as a silly Mario Galaxy ripoff was right.
  • Interestingly, this is the only game I've ever had a copy of before it officially came out – I had the game preordered on Amazon, and they sent me a buggering REVIEW COPY two weeks before the launch date! (For reference, I was 15 at the time.) Though it got me some attention on Sonic forums at the time – I spoiled it rotten for everyone else – it eventually proved to be my undoing, because I got to a boss that, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to beat. There were no guides or FAQs online at the time, of course, so I was fucked, and by the time help was available I'd already lost interest.

• Sonic Boom: Played the demo, it softlocked my Wii U. Didn't buy this slop even as a curiosity. Depressingly, I've seen every episode of the show. It's pretty good, but relies too heavily on references in the second season. This whole reboot was idiotic from the word go.

• Sonic Forces: Short, mediocre, who cares. The 3D Sonic levels are actually not bad, but there are, like, three of them, and they're over in less than a minute. (That's literally true for one of them.) The 2D Sonic levels are bland beyond blandness, like a kid's first ROM hack of Sonic 1 that people on Retro would take the piss out of. The original character levels are kind of interesting, but so easy as to be pointless. (I don't like how you can't switch weapons after entering a level, either.) The music isn't good at all, which is weird for a Sonic game, and the plot and character writing are dumb and uninteresting. I beat this game in two sittings, put it on my shelf, and never thought about it again until now. The iPhone spinoff is better.

• Sonic Frontiers: Earlier in this thread, ciro64 asked me if there was any other game I hated as much as Undertale, and I couldn't think of one at the time, but I think this one comes close. I absolutely abhor the combat – Sonic games should not have "combat", they're about jumping on things. I think the darker tone is unbelievably stupid – there's this Japanese commercial with a monotonic young woman narrating it that I honestly felt humiliated to be watching. I hated the fucking bosses, and will continue to until the day I die. The final boss being a fucking Ikaruga level made me want to leap off a bridge. The re-used levels from other games were sickening. The cutscenes looked like they were made in Source Filmmaker, and the story ruins the most interesting element of SA1's plot. Atrocious game. Toby Fox, all is forgiven.
  • Of course, it sold a zillion copies, so this is what Sonic is going to be from now on. Great!!!!!!!!! The only part of this game I liked was the Fantasy Zone music during the pinball minigame.

If anyone actually read all that bullshit, you deserve a medal and a drink. I'm going to be dropping another novel to respond to @Tonberry's post, so please grant me a brief respite until then. SONIC SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!, but I still like it. I don't know if I'll play any of the new ones after Frontiers, I'm kinda done with the series at this point.

 

[OmegaPunch's iconOmegaPunch]

Who would win:
1 beefy 5-layer burrito from Taco Bell?
Or
The immune system of a child from the Victorian era?

 

[lil_thang]

this gif was my pfp in the atlassian suite last job i was in, i feel it in my soul

 

[Gorse]

Who would win:
1 beefy 5-layer burrito from Taco Bell?
Or
The immune system of a child from the Victorian era?

Assuming the burrito was cooked properly – a pretty big stretch for Taco Bell – my money's on the kid. Especially if he's a delightful Cockney chimney-sweep who's spent his entire life inhaling asbestos and soot directly into his lungs. RIGHT-O, GUVNA!

this gif was my pfp in the atlassian suite last job i was in, i feel it in my soul

If I weren't already commited to the Fido Dido thing, it would be mine here, too.

 

[Zerpina]

there ya go @Gorse

 

[Yousef]

LOL if you needed a bump you can always dm me
Sonic unleashed was called World Adventure (which you likely already knew) so it does make sense it would be a follow up to adv2
I’ve mixed feelings about how adventure 2 mixes up the gameplay styles but I love all 3 so it’s fine. Mad space was a lot of fun to A-rank.
I love all six gameplay styles of adventure 1. Amy and big were great. Really miss them.
Heroes was a piece of shit.
Shadow is kind of fun.
The Wii games don’t seem fun.
I really like both unleasheds.
Colors looks like ass.
Lost world may be fun but I’m really not interested in knock off Mario galaxy, I hate Mario Galaxy with every fiber of my being.
Forces was shit.
Generations is bleeeegghhhh, great example of sonic fans wanting safe products and nothing more.
Frontiers may legitimately be one of the worst games ever made objectively speaking.

Opinions on sonic mania?

 

[Gorse]

Tonberry, I haven't forgotten about your post, and I'll be addressing it shortly, but for now let me get this quick-and-easy one out of the way.

Opinions on sonic mania?

Sonic Mania was a fine game – I played it right at launch – but it had a lot of things in it I didn't like. As I've mentioned above, "distracting side nonsense" is my #1 most hated element in any platform game, and Mania is chock-full of moments where you're pulled away from the action and forced to do something completely unrelated. Whether it's the forty-trillion bonus and special stages (none of which are very good at all), gimmicky level mechanics, or minigame-tier boss fights, I can never fully immerse myself in the gameplay like I can with Sonic 1 or 3&K.

The levels they chose to return from the other games were pretty terrible picks (I remember letting out an audible groan when I saw the Oil Ocean title card appear), and the new levels are like something from Freedom Planet (which I also didn't really like). The new power-ups are neat, but they're either recycled from other games (for example, the big rings from Chaotix) or cause additional nonsense that interrupts gameplay (for example, the fire shield burning bridges in GHZ or the ice BS in Press Garden). I also don't really like the visuals... they're really shiny and pixel-y, and they don't look much like a Sonic game at all.

Something I found very telling about Mania's success is that a lot of the critics who liked it either didn't like Sonic or hadn't played a 16-bit Sonic game in 25 years. I've played every original Sonic game to absolute pieces throughout the entirety of my life, so I'd already done a lot of the good stuff in Mania many, many times before, which made the not-so-good stuff stand out in my mind even more. Mania is an excellent Sonic game for non-Sonic fans, basically, but not one for cynical mid-20s dolts like me. I only ever beat the game once with Sonic + all emeralds (the final boss was pretty gosh-darned terrible), and I really have no desire to do so again.

I'm not surprised that the Mania team's next game, Penny's Big Breakaway, flopped so hard that it basically destroyed their studio (they had to lay a lot of people off last year). I think that team is very good at making Sonic the Hedgehog ROM hacks, and not much else. (Also, the game had the worst protagonist design I've ever seen in my life.) Several years ago (way before Mania was even a dream), I actually had the opportunity to speak to Stealth on the Sonic Retro forums, and he seemed like a very nice human being. I look forward to seeing what he specifically achieves in the future.

And, just to close the book on this, I didn't play Superstars and don't really have any drive to. It doesn't look all that good, and I knew some people who said as much. All the little references to Sonic history are cute, but I can just look at those on the internet, so there's no need for me to buy the game.

 

[Tonberry]

Tonberry, I haven't forgotten about your post, and I'll be addressing it shortly,

I'm not sure why this made me weirdly nervous...

 

[Gorse]

I'm not sure why this made me weirdly nervous...

You should be, because I'm about to write out a massive screed containing, in excruciating detail, several hyper-controversial opinions on the modern state of Japanese animation. I was originally going to just reply to your post with a snarky one-sentence response, because the full version is probably going to make everyone want my blood for dinner and will change precisely zero minds, but I actually think it might be quite valuable to list it all out here for future reference. These are my genuine opinions on the anime – and specifically, why I don't like it today. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with them, just that these are my actual, non-censored thoughts. TO WIT:

First of all, let me state something in very clear terms: I'm not a "weaboo". Any affection I have for Japan extends purely to their cartoons (from before the mid-2010s), their video games (from before the late-2010s or so), their music (again, let's say late-2010s), and some of their books (not light novels, full-on actual-factual heavy novels). I've never been to Japan, I'll almost certainly never go there, I'm pretty sure I've never really interacted with a Japanese person IRL or online, and they've produced an awful lot of poo in addition to the good stuff, like all cultures. Everything I know about Japanese culture comes from the Internet, and I don't think that only Japanese people can make good stuff at all.

Additionally, though I've made a few silly jokes in this thread about Americans, I don't hate their culture at all. I love American culture. My favourite television shows, including my favourite animated series, are American, as are many of my favourite movies, books, music, comics, what the F ever. The most recent animated movie I liked was an entirely American production about the most American cartoon characters ever. Americans are very, very good at making culture – sure as fuck moreso than the country I come from, and moreso than many, many other cultures on this green planet of ours.

But they can't make anime (by definition). And they shouldn't be working on it. And they should not be influencing it in the modern age through direct interaction with the people who are making it, specifically on Twitter and other social media platforms. This actually goes for other cultures, too – Chinese, Brazilian, Azerbaijani, whatever – but Americans are now very clearly the prime audience for anime, so that's why I mentioned them above. Everything I'm about to say also goes for non-Japanese media – I could make the very same statements about, say, British media, and it would also be true.

Second, let me make another thing clear: The entire reason I ever liked anime in the first place was because it was different to American media. Here's some context: As detailed here, I got into anime in the late 2000s through shows like Lucky Star and, specifically, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. I liked those shows because they weren't like what I was used to. In fact, they were unbelievably different to what I was used to, and I appreciated that window into another culture very much – it honestly kind of blew my mind. Those were stories that an American team, or a British team, or a Canadian team would never make – they simply wouldn't have the ability to, let alone the desire.

And, as detailed here (SORRY FOR THE SEVERAL LONG GORSE POSTS), I don't think the Japanese, in their modern state, can make them anymore, either. The culture has shifted. We'll get onto that more in a bit.

[TO BE CONTONDERED........]

 

[OmegaPunch's iconOmegaPunch]

Continue?

 

[Gorse]

[CONTINUED FROM ABOVE TO @Tonberry 's COMMENT; THANK YOU OMEGAPUNCH]

Another anime series I like – in fact, I love to pieces – is an obscure show called Kurenai, which came out in 2008, long before Twitter. (Well, not really, but you know what I mean.) That, again, was a show that could only have been made by a Japanese creative team, because it was about the conflict between traditional Japanese culture and then-modern Japanese culture. It has gorgeous, gorgeous artwork, phenomenal writing and voice acting, and the most touching brother-sister relationship I've ever seen in an animated series.

It's also a show that has full-on loli frontal in the bath. IT HAS WHAT??????? Oh nononoNO my good sir, it can't have that. We need to change that! They shouldn't be allowed to make that!

​

Yet another anime series I like is called Lovely Complex. It's a diabetes-causingly adorable love story about two young people, and it takes place, very specifically, in Osaka. Osaka – the culture of that part of Japan, the attitudes of the people who live there, and even the way the characters speak – is indelibly linked to the identity of Lovely Complex. It's so linked to Osaka that you can actually chart specific locations and specific time-frames from that area throughout the series. It's an Osakan (or whatever you call people from there) show, in its every element.

It's also a show that has a boy character that dresses up as a girl, and whom the series makes constant fun of for doing so. IT HAS WHAT???????? Oh nononoNO sir, it can't have that. We have to change that. Yes, it may alter the script permanently, changing both a critical character and the overall plot, but, well, it's for the better, isn't it? They shouldn't be allowed to make that!

See where I'm going with this?

They would never make a show like Kurenai or Lovely Complex these days. They wouldn't be allowed to, because you wouldn't be able to show that stuff on Crunchyroll. They wouldn't be motivated to, because both shows were exclusively intended for Japanese audiences. They wouldn't have the ability to, because the creative genesis of both shows requires a cultural background that's exclusively Japanese, and now Americans are working on anime.

Even if they did manage to produce a shambling simulacra of these properties, they'd be unrecognizably inferior. All the characters would have that chubby, flat-faced, baby-faced look that all modern anime characters have – because that style is easy to replicate, especially for fan-artists (and certainly so for Western fan artists) on Twitter. The colours would be garishly pastel, because that's what the new range of artists know how to work with, and it shows up better on iPhone screens. There wouldn't be any nudity. There wouldn't be any "exclusionary" jokes. Crunchyroll wouldn't allow it.

So, if they can't make those shows, what can they make? They need to make shows that are OK for international audiences, and OK for the American platforms that they're streaming on.

Well, they can make Tolkien-inspired fantasy series. American and Japanese audiences like those. They can make superhero shows. Those aren't exclusionary. They can make shonen shows about over-muscled men punching and yelling at each other. They can make anime adaptations of Western properties, like Lord of the Rings and Terminator and that Netflix movie about the elf and the cop guy.

That way, American and Japanese media won't need to be different at all! :)

SEE WHAT I MEAN????????????????????????????????????????????

Tonberry, I hope you don't mind me referring back to you, but I happen to know you're a fan of Lord of the Rings, and – judging by your avatar – you're also a fan of anime influenced by Lord of the Rings. Did you know that I absolutely hate Lord of the Rings? I really do. I find it boring to an almost excruciating degree. Fortunately, I don't have to even think about Lord of the Rings if I don't want to, I can just watch a new anime series and-- hm, well!

Anyways, another thing I don't like are shows about muscly men punching and yelling at each other. Hoo boy, do I not like that! I've really no interesting in muscly men punching and yelling at each other all day. So instead, I'll just check out a new anime series and-- hm, well!

A third thing I don't like are post-2010s western video games. Oh me oh my, do I certainly not like post-2010s western video games! I don't like memes, either – in fact, I find them pretty goshdarned insufferable. A certain game, called Undertale, mixed up post-2010s western video games and memes, and I didn't like it most of all! But praise, oh Goddess of Fortune, for with the click of a button, I can simply turn on a new anime series and--

Hm. Well.

A while ago, I made a completely non-controversial post about indie games that everyone agreed with and didn't cause any arguments at all. Really, the same concept applies here. I don't want the same thing again and again. I don't want Tolkien anime and Terminator anime and Cyberpunk 2077 anime over and over. Again and again. Forever. I want Kurenai, and Lovely Complex, and the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and Lucky Star, and a bunch of shows they'll never make again. They're not allowed to. They don't have the ability to. And if they do, here's what'll happen:

------------------->

​

Excuse me while I barf my fucking brains out.

Tonberry, if there's one thing I agree with you on, it's that anime is and always has been very trend-driven. But the trends used to be driven by the Japanese. They didn't used to be driven by the Japanese and the Americans, or just the Americans, or American-driven Twitter algorithms. They used to be different. It used to be a different medium, and a different culture. And that's what I liked.

I know that, for a lot of people, especially people who got into anime after or during the mid-2010s, anime now is better than it's ever been. I know that a lot of people need anime to be this way, because this kind of anime is all they have in their lives, and if they don't look into a mirror and see a cute anime girl instead of an ugly, mentally-ill adult man, they'll leap off a bridge. That's all OK. That's fine. But it isn't what I like.

I don't like anime any more. I don't like Tolkien/D&D fantasy series, I don't like shonen stuff, I don't think a character should ever be looking at a fucking iPhone, I don't want Undertale or Skyrim references, and, most of all, I don't want Twitter influencing the culture.

The cat's out of the bag, though, so I'm fucked.

OH WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​

And one more thing:

Unless you're just a hipster of course (which is valid too)!

Again, I was going to give you a snarky one-line response, but, actually, here's something better-suited for this AMA, because it's another genuine opinion of mine: If you dismiss any legitimate, informed, reason criticism of any aspect of modern culture as "being a hipster", "being contrarian" or "being a troll", it actually isn't worth my time speaking to you, because your mind will never be changed. (That's not a slight at Tonberry, I'm using "you" generally.)

I'd rather be a hipster, contrarian, or troll than an empty-headed, meme-spouting, chronically-depressed moron – the internet already has an infinite amount of them – and the thought of me becoming one is probably my greatest fear and/or source of disgust. SORRY

(And if anyone actually read all this nonsense, again, I apologize.)

 

[Tonberry]

but Americans are now very clearly the prime audience for anime

What are you basing this on, other than observing chronically online twitter users? Like I said before, the trends you were initially referring to are old at this point.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't see how your impressions on "the state of the industry" hold a lot of water when you claim that you largely haven't interacted with it for almost a decade. Japanese shows are still by and large very Japanese.

I don't care about anime as some sort of big omni-genre/medium (which is why I don't consider myself a weeaboo either), I just love visual mediums and storytelling (and I kind of think that animation is genuine magic). Just wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to "defend anime" or whatever.

*Entire second post*

I mean, I do get where you're coming from a bit better from this, but I still think you're wrong in the way you're comparing east and west. Or at the least generalizing a bit.
Japanese sensibilities have changed too, and it's not just because of "PC" westerners trying to influence their creative endeavors. It's just something that naturally occurs everywhere in the world, at different paces. Like, I don't think that style comparison you showed has anything to do with something other than trends/the artist's style evolving. Just like how "everything" looekd like Slayers in the mid 90s and everyone were moeblobs in the mid 00s, I don't think there's any kind of conspiracy at work there.

I can agree that a lot of themes end up feeling washed out as a consequence of appealing to global markets, but just like in video games, there's a billion things worth looking for that's not just found on the upper crust of the industry. It's just harder to find, which makes the quest to find them feel daunting.

Like I said, I don't care about anime as having any "objective" ruleset or whatever (it's just a medium like any other, it shouldn't be beholden to such rules), and I can only sympathize with you lamenting the stuff you liked that isn't there anymore. I don't think I've given it as much thought as you have, but at the same time I think you're kind of generalizing, and that's typically the sort of opinion/claim I go off on and want to dissect.

I'm sorry if you took any offense to how I worded my post, the hipster part was just meant to be banter, because I agree with you on your statement about that, so I'm sorry if it came off that way.
If anything, I just think it's sometimes a bit hard to parse whether you're being serious or not because you tend to type like a cartoon character, but change in the middle of a post. That isn't a slight on your style or anything, as I think it's charming. It's just that sometimes it's easy to misinterpret serious posts as jokes and vice versa.
And that I have a really hard time parsing sarcasm/snark in text form regardless, so I know it's partly an issue on my end!

At the end of the day, I agree with your general sentiment in that Japanese stuff should be allowed to feel Japanese, but I suppose I disagree when it comes to your reasoning as to why it is how it is nowadays.

I don't want the same thing again and again.

This I agree with, too. I guess the nitty-gritty is just a matter of preference.

You're correct in that I like fantasy. I don't like all fantasy, though. I like Tolkien because there's nothing like it before or since, but I'm not against people being inspired by his works. As a matter of fact, I love fantasy, but I don't like contemporary high fantasy at all. It's not romantic in the slightest. That being said, I think fantasy anime (from what I've gleaned) from back in the 90s were much more derivative of Tolkien than what's available now (though it tends to be much more aesthetically appealing). What's available now is dogshit, though, because much of it is based on video game logic which is one of my most hated tropes. Delicious in Dungeon (my avatar) is clearly inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, but it doesn't treat its world like a game, which is why I think it manages to elevate the "genericness" and make something unique out of it.
The only "muscly men punching each other" stuff I really care about is Dragonball and Hokuto no Ken, and I don't like the adaptations of those at all, compared to the manga.

Sorry, I kind of rambled off-topic that last paragraph.

EDIT: Did I seriously spend 40 minutes typing this out?

 

[Gorse]

I knew this was going to turn into a massive multi-post, line-by-line argument. From now on I'm never giving my opinion on anything, ever.

What are you basing this on, other than observing chronically online twitter users?

I was going to bring up some hard data about this, but I actually don't need to, because I can certainly make some qualitative statements that prove my point immediately:

• American Netflix and Crunchyroll (and many some other platforms?) executives now sit on the boards of many major anime studios (and have complete financial control over others, like Trigger). They absolutely have the power and the influence to alter content to fit American tastes. (This is an area where I can point the finger at the U.S.A. directly, because it's not like there's a Brazilian equivalent.)
• In the 2020s, most major anime is now directly piped through American streaming services like Crunchyroll, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and probably some other ones too. Each of those services has the ability to pull a series based on content. (A great example: Sunohara no Kanririn-san. Yes, it's a few years old at this point, but we'll get back to that.)
• They're using anime, produced by anime studios, to produce fucking American McDonald's commercials. CASE CLOSED

Like I said before, the trends you were initially referring to are old at this point.

No they're not you silly-willy, Tolkein-inspired medieval Western fantasy is the #1 anime genre right now, and that's not stopping anytime soon. They literally released a Lord of the Rings anime movie last year! The Terminator anime series is coming soon, and you can bet your bottom that they'll be doing a lot more American-friendly superhero and shonen anime in the very near future. I guess I could look this up on Anichart or something, but there's really no need, because I already know it's true.

You're entitled to your opinion,

Oh, really? I'm entitled to my opinion in my own personal AMA thread – the premise of which is that I'm supposed to have a space to give my own thoughts? That was very nice of you. I should have waited for you to give me permission to post my thoughts on the Sonic games, too. <<<<----- SARCASM

Japanese sensibilities have changed too, and it's not just because of "PC" westerners trying to influence their creative endeavors.

OK, we're obviously never going to come to a consensus on this because we both already know the other's standpoint on these matters, and nothing I could ever say would change your mind, but let me reiterate something I said in a post I linked above: YES IT IS. I don't know how long you've been into anime (that you didn't watch on TV as a kid), but as someone who has been since long before it got big in the mid-2010s, I can't express in words how much the culture and the production of it has changed.

There was zero influence from American social media. There was zero influence from Western memes. There was probably a small amount of censorship lingering from decades-old post-war broadcast laws, and certain changing social mores for anime specifically geared at children (an example of which being no more nudity in the 2008 Yatterman series), but that didn't affect 95% of anime geared at teenagers or adults. Things changed, very abruptly and very immediately, after the 2015-2016 period. I witnessed it firsthand. I WAS THERE

I don't think there's any kind of conspiracy at work there.

OK waitwaitwait a second, let's just cool our jets for a second: I don't think a shadowy cabal of eviltons is specifically plotting the wide-scale neutering of the anime medium (well, maybe Crunchyroll is [JOKE]), but I do think widespread globalization brought about by social media is significantly dampening a once-vibrant, unique subset of animation. Everything I said in my post can go very well for British media, which I also once loved, and probably a lot of other stuff (I'd imagine mostly eurocentric) too.

there's a billion things worth looking for that's not just found on the upper crust of the industry. It's just harder to find, which makes the quest to find them feel daunting.

Even if that's true – and I don't really think it is anymore – the industry has changed so much over the last decade that even shows that would potentially-interest me will have at least some element that turns me off before I try to watch it. For example, the awful modern anime art style, or dreadfully safe, bland writing, or Undertale references, whatever. (And I assure you – no show that's come out in the 2020s has interested me.)

I think fantasy anime (from what I've gleaned) from back in the 90s were much more derivative of Tolkien than what's available now

Again, they literally, literally released an LOTR movie theatrically last year.

I'm sorry if you took any offense to how I worded my post

OOH, THAT WAS A LITTLE SNIP AT ME, WASN'T IT??? Thank goodness I'm the one who took offence at your little barbed jab, and you weren't in the wrong for making it in the first place. That would mean sacrificing your ego! I think I'll return the favour in the last part of this post. Stay tuned!

If anything, I just think it's sometimes a bit hard to parse whether you're being serious or not because you tend to type like a cartoon character,

So why even engage in the first place? Well, I'll tell you why below.

I suppose I disagree when it comes to your reasoning as to why it is how it is nowadays.

OK. What do you want me to say? That I agree with you? That would be a lie, for the reasons I've listed previously in this thread.

EDIT: Did I seriously spend 40 minutes typing this out?

Yes, you did! Here's why:

• You're clearly more "PC" than I am, and you like that anime is going that way. The fact that I, an obvious non-troll, disagree is a big problem.
• By me presenting a detailed argument to the contrary, I'm challenging not only your tastes, but, on some level, your worldview.
• You want to gain the upper hand on me, to "defeat" an "enemy" and re-secure your ego. (It won't, of course, because you'll have to keep doing it again and again as your enemies increasingly take over the world. That's why your worldview keeps failing in the places that matter, and why the real bad people will always win.)
  • I've also noticed you've been a bit quick to snip at me elsewhere on the forum, suggesting you're kind of egotistical in general, or at least that you don't really like me and want to gain some kind of advantage over me publicly.

Am I wrong on any of these points? Somehow I don't think I am. Of course, by responding, I'm guilty of the same, but, hey: I wouldn't go into your AMA thread and start an argument about why your opinion is actually wrong.

Or maybe I would! Who knows?

 

[Tonberry]

some qualitative statements that prove my point immediately

I stand corrected, then. You clearly know this better than I do. Anime has never aired on TV where I live, so it was either just stream it on pirate sites, or watch it on Crunchyroll/Netflix in later years.

No they're not you silly-willy, Tolkein-inspired medieval Western fantasy is the #1 anime genre right now, and that's not stopping anytime soon. They literally released a Lord of the Rings anime movie last year!

I was referring to superhero stuff like OPM and MHA from your first post I responded to, should've been clearer in my wording.

OK waitwaitwait a second, let's just cool our jets for a second: I don't think a shadowy cabal of eviltons is specifically plotting the wide-scale neutering of the anime medium (well, maybe Crunchyroll is [JOKE]), but I do think widespread globalization brought about by social media is significantly dampening a once-vibrant, unique subset of animation. Everything I said in my post can go very well for British media, which I also once loved, and probably a lot of other stuff (I'd imagine mostly eurocentric) too.

I didn't mean it literally, I've just never come across this opinion before so it's new to me.

Yes, you did! Here's why:

• You're clearly more "PC" than I am, and you like that anime is going that way. The fact that I, an obvious non-troll, disagree is a big problem.

I never said I like that anime is going that way, I just don't really care that it is, if it is. I have no problems with your opinions or tastes or whatever, so if you think I somehow consider you an enemy for disagreeing that's not the case at all. It's just cartoons.

You want to gain the upper hand on me, to "defeat" an "enemy" and re-secure your ego. (It won't, of course, because you'll have to keep doing it again and again as your enemies increasingly take over the world. That's why your worldview keeps failing in the places that matter, and why the real bad people will always win.)

• I've also noticed you've been a bit quick to snip at me elsewhere on the forum, suggesting you're kind of egotistical in general, or at least that you don't really like me and want to gain some kind of advantage publicly.

I really don't have anything against you at all. I think you're one of the chillest people here. I just thought we were having discussions. I like talking to people about stuff they like and if they don't like something I'm interested in hearing why. I don't think you've ever been rude to me, and I thought I hadn't been towards you. At most I thought we were having friendly banter. I know I can come off as confrontative, but that's because I'm curious. I'm never trying to be antagonistic or argue in bad faith.

If I overstepped and it came across like I'm challenging you or trying to "one-up" you or whatever in your own thread, I'm really sorry, becase that wasn't my intention at all, and it never has been.

 

[Gorse]

If I overstepped and it came across like I'm challenging you or trying to "one-up" you or whatever in your own thread, I'm really sorry, becase that wasn't my intention at all, and it never has been.

Oh alright you big lug, I take it all back, come over here and give me a big smooch:

 

[Tonberry]

Yay!
Just so that the thread doesn't end in a big old fight, I'd like to respectfully ask an actual question for your AMA thread, to get the ball rolling again:

What's your favorite type of sweet treat?
Anything from candy, to pastries, to fruits to whatever you think fits the description.

 

[Gorse]

What's your favorite type of sweet treat?

LEMON POUND CAKE!!!!! I specifically like the kind with vanilla icing on it. Starbucks does a lovely version, but I'm actually not bad at baking it myself. (Pound cakes are insanely easy.) Of course, one slice is roughly forty trillion calories, but it's usually worth it. They're lovely with a coffee in the morning.

 

[Tonberry]

LEMON POUND CAKE!!!!! I specifically like the kind with vanilla icing on it. Starbucks does a lovely version, but I'm actually not bad at baking it myself.

Nice, I haven't had that in ages but it really is great. My great grandma always used to bake it when we were visiting her.

Of course, one slice is roughly forty trillion calories, but it's usually worth it.

In Swedish, pound cake is called "sockerkaka" which just literally translates to "sugar cake". I always found it funny when unhealthy stuff sort of owns its unhealthiness in its name.