Hot takes

Oh here is another one since we talked about fighting games, but i don't know how spicy it is:

- The 3D art direction for SF makes most characters look hideous and like they are made of clay.

Twilight Princess is the worst (at least 3D) Zelda.
Really? Personally, i would say that Skyward Sword is the worst one.
 
Really? Personally, i would say that Skyward Sword is the worst one.
Yeah it’s pretty close lol, but I think TP is more frustrating to play overall. There’s so much back and forth all the time, collecting teardrops suck, the combat is just Wind Waker but you have to unlock your moves, the items are uninteresting for the mostpart.
I love Midna though, but who doesn’t?

Skyward Sword has a bunch of issues too but I think it does unique gimmicks better generally. I like the overall items more, I like the artstyle and the world feels much more unique. Dungeon’s have more puzzles and combat felt hard (partly due to jank but I like how fights against lone enemies felt like duels), I love Zelda’s personality and design, and it’s got one of the best soundtracks in the series.
 
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Oh here is another one since we talked about fighting games, but i don't know how spicy it is:

- The 3D art direction for SF makes most characters look hideous and like they are made of clay.
Like many PSX era games. I do like the low poly models of the era like SF EX, Ergheiz or Tobal's.

A related somewhat hot take though:
Twilight Princess is the worst (at least 3D) Zelda.
I think my biggest issue with TP is that, despite loving the Twilight Realm (being akin to the Dark World in ALTTP), Midna's sass and the badassness of Wolf Link, I think that it looks too much like a Tolkien-ish, westernised fantasy world and is clearly Nintendo bowing to the fans after they dared making Wind Waker so they basically have made Ocarina of Time but upscaled to please them.



My volcanic take about the Zelda franchise is that it has always had mature elements hidden under a charming, childish looking world because Japan medium didn't mind tackling some more serious subject in family friendly art (like in shonen, tokus or even just games).

Tezuka's mangas are simplistic and childish looking in the art style yet the stories can get quite dark in some of them, ditto with some mangas talking about some themes (or don't pull punches about the character bleeding after a hard attack despite being aimed at younger boys).

But for Zelda, if someone says they want a "mature and realistic looking Zelda game and not a Cel shaded crap" they simply didn't understand (or rather not played) the games then.

I'd even dare saying that while Majora's Mask is creepy on purpose (and then again it's a unique game in the entire franchise, even compared to OoT and TP), Link's Awakening is probably the most melancholic inducing entry in the franchise. Yeah I said it, LA despite the cutesy art style, cute sounding soundtrack and adorable cast of characters still ends up showing that any dream cannot last forever so you're the one basically making everyone, friends and foes, vanish forever.

I won't spoil too many entries but Echoes of Wisdom has a story about an antagonist wanting to bring everything to the void, not even just conquering the world like most other villains.

I think it's not a big spoiler to say that Wind Waker is basically a post-apocalyptic world where everything got flooded. I loved the intro part where they told how the hero never came when the evil demon lord Ganon was striking again. Same with ALTTP being basically set after Ganon has won once and got the Triforce. I do love the Falldown Timeline solely because it gives us a different view on the Zelda series with an actual struggle to get the Kingdom back.
 
The 3D art direction for SF makes most characters look hideous and like they are made of clay.
I’ve heard this before but I never really saw it. The biggest problem for me with SF characters in 3D is that the games (apart from 4 but that one’s just ugly in general) use realistic textures while having these hyper stylized body types, so it usually looks really uncanny. But it varies a lot depending on characters. I think Mika looks a billion times better in V than in A3 because they made her look huge and strong which just fits better, while Zangief and Honda look great in 6 because they again look gigantic.

I do kind of wish they’d use more cartoony texture treatment that would fit the general style more, but I think Capcom’s too caught up in the fidelity wars to consider that. SF6 looks like a hodgepodge nightmare because of all the clashing styles to me.
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I think my biggest issue with TP is that, despite loving the Twilight Realm (being akin to the Dark World in ALTTP), Midna's sass and the badassness of Wolf Link, I think that it looks too much like a Tolkien-ish, westernised fantasy world and is clearly Nintendo bowing to the fans after they dared making Wind Waker so they basically have made Ocarina of Time but upscaled to please them.
This is interesting because I always felt that Zelda is more immersive when it’s a Japanese take on western fantasy environs. I don’t like how they made the sheikah look so overtly pseudo-japanese in BotW (even though they were always ninjas, I just thought it clashed)

Agreed on your Tezuka thing. It’s just another ol’ cause of people not wanting to be associated with liking something that’a geared towards kids.
 
I do kind of wish they’d use more cartoony texture treatment that would fit the general style more, but I think Capcom’s too caught up in the fidelity wars to consider that. SF6 looks like a hodgepodge nightmare because of all the clashing styles to me.
Its the same for me, i wish they went in a more cartoony direction rather than go borderline uncanny valley (with some characters), to be honest i see the pursue of "realistic graphics" as the killer of all artstyles and it really saddens me to see the industry going in that direction.
 
to be honest i see the pursue of "realistic graphics" as the killer of all artstyles and it really saddens me to see the industry going in that direction.
Yeah I’m inclined to agree for the mostpart. I think Rockstar is good at keeping a balance, in general, and it’s nice when racing games are pretty like that.
And I like it in Monster Hunter too but that’s probably a hot take in and of itself ?
 
This is interesting because I always felt that Zelda is more immersive when it’s a Japanese take on western fantasy environs. I don’t like how they made the sheikah look so overtly pseudo-japanese in BotW (even though they were always ninjas, I just thought it clashed).
I agree that Sheik and Impa looked better in OoT.

I do like the Ghibli ambience in BotW/TotK but it's clear that Hyrule isn't based on any real world country and I am fine with any reference to Christianity (like in the first two Zelda game) and Islam (OoT's Gerudo) being removed in favour of the mythology of Hylian and the three goddesses.

Zelda isn't just like any European inspired medieval fantast world like TES, DnD, The Witcher and so on but its own thing. Even other japanese made fantasy series like Druaga, Ghouls n Ghosts, Dragon Quest and Wonder Boy/Monster World have different styles and feel.

Agreed on your Tezuka thing. It’s just another ol’ cause of people not wanting to be associated with liking something that’s geared towards kids.
Which would delve into the debate of people thinking that being mature = blood and gore (which isn't) but that would be digressing a bit too much.
 
I agree that Sheik and Impa looked better in OoT.

I do like the Ghibli ambience in BotW/TotK but it's clear that Hyrule isn't based on any real world country and I am fine with any reference to Christianity (like in the first two Zelda game) and Islam (OoT's Gerudo) being removed in favour of the mythology of Hylian and the three goddesses.

Zelda isn't just like any European inspired medieval fantast world like TES, DnD, The Witcher and so on but its own thing. Even other japanese made fantasy series like Druaga, Ghouls n Ghosts, Dragon Quest and Wonder Boy/Monster World have different styles and feel.


Which would delve into the debate of people thinking that being mature = blood and gore (which isn't) but that would be digressing a bit too much.
Yeah it was just the general look of the Sheikah that irked me, but mainly because I’m not a huge fan of ”not-Japan” in fantasy in general.
I agree that Zelda feels like it’s own thing eve when it has castles and dragons. To me it’s always had a more fairy-tale feel than just straight up fantasy, but that’s also just a matter of semantic and stuff, so it’s whatever :)
 
Yeah it was just the general look of the Sheikah that irked me, but mainly because I’m not a huge fan of ”not-Japan” in fantasy in general.
I agree that Zelda feels like it’s own thing eve when it has castles and dragons. To me it’s always had a more fairy-tale feel than just straight up fantasy, but that’s also just a matter of semantic and stuff, so it’s whatever :)
You just put the finger right there, it's a fairy tale (or should I say a legend as the title told us).

This is why I also don't consider Star Wars to be a proper pure Sci-fi/Space Opera franchise but a fantasy adventure set in a sci-fi like environment (while taking more cues from Samurai and Western movies than something like Star Trek), this is why each movies started with the "Long ago, in a Galaxy far away". Even Dune could be told to be more like its own thing with specific themes regardless of its sci-fi world.


But I should go back to hot takes and tell that I've always preferred a top down camera over a third person one in my 3D game.
 
I've always preferred a top down camera over a third person one in my 3D game.
Hehe, for me it’s always been the opposite. I don’t like it when I can’t see the sky in 3D games.
 
Hehe, for me it’s always been the opposite. I don’t like it when I can’t see the sky in 3D games.
I think the issue with TPS view is that you have less of a grasp of the enemies behind you.

Even Batman Arkham had a top down view when you're battling.

It's probably the best for action games to allow the camera to go further than the shoulder.
 
I think the issue with TPS view is that you have less of a grasp of the enemies behind you.

Even Batman Arkham had a top down view when you're battling.

It's probably the best for action games to allow the camera to go further than the shoulder.
That’s true. In general I prefer it like in Zelda and Dark Souls, where the character is in the middle but a little bit away and you can turn the camera 360 degrees.
 
I think the issue with TPS view is that you have less of a grasp of the enemies behind you.
RE 4 TPS view is designed so that that is the case, which is both deliberate and makes the game better. Same thing with not being able to move and shot at the same time.
 
I'll toss one out
The (current) big 4 gacha games are better than 80% of western games released in the past 12 years
 
But the thing is that saying that "X was never good" is most of the time a lie said by trolls or haters just to get hateviews or people arguing. I've simply disagreed about your opinion (because I consider that telling it as a statement is dishonest when it's clearly a subjective claim).

Saying that Sonic (or any other franchises) was never good is as pointless (and false) as saying that Megaman was never good because someone couldn't finish the NES ones and to annoy Megaman fans.

And telling that someone is "based" is just yet another internet lingo expression to legitimise another's opinion by portraying it as a good thing when it's just agreeing with someone else's point of view (which could lead to a fallacious paradigm).


How so? Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII, Symphony of the Night and Resident Evil 4 are considered to be the best of their respective franchises for a good reason.

I'd still say that people going against the popular opinion solely to appear wiser are not really the best either.


PS: Also I'd say that a personal experience does not constitute an undeniable truth either.
If there is anything more embarrassing to young people about how they speak than using "BASED FAKT BASED BASED" as an expression of an "opinion", I haven't heard it yet. It doesn't make them sound smart, edgy, or "anti-establishment"; it makes them sound like they can't just explain their opinions. (And whether it originated with them or not, neo-nazis seem to love that word.)

By the way, remember that you can just block trolls from showing up on your end by going to their user page and clicking "Ignore." It seems more necessary with some people here than others.

On a related note, the insanity defense is not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "go directly to jail for life" card. Admitting to being unable to control oneself is saying that one shouldn't be allowed to interact with others for everyone's safety. I'd assume it doesn't work much differently for any troll who argues it in forums.
 
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These "Hot takes" threads are inevitably going to be contentious, but keep the arguments civil please.
 
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These "Hot takes" threads are inevitably going to be contentious, but keep the arguments civil please.
They should stay civil, but this forum is starting to attract some uncivil people.

I've had to put 3 people on Ignore already. One lost their temper with me just because I gave an opinion with supporting facts and details instead of keeping it baseless. Another acted disrespectfully because the topic I was talking about wasn't to their liking (no rule breaking on my part, just they didn't like it) and went further to insinuate they can behave against the rules if they want because of mental health issues. Still another jumped in to "moderate" by blaming me for the others' behavior, encouraging their rule breaking in the process.

I left that thread and put them on Ignore. However, one of those trolls is now here in this thread, badgering another member for inane reasons, and using the same excuse again. (Seriously, this person is saying they are not capable of controlling their own behavior; that's a huge red flag that needs to be watched out for.) If we're getting derailed over and over by the same people, I think that should be pointed out so that the troll can be treated as the problem, not everyone else.
 
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People hating on SCIII was mostly SC2 players on gamecube who couldn't buy a PS2..
I had no idea people even hated SC3. It's one of the best games on the franchise, especially compared to some duds that came after.
 
@miguk

Well a warning was issued in this case already, and I commented just to make it clear we took notice of the argument. It's not an insinuation of guilt on everyone's part.
 
If there is anything more embarrassing to young people about how they speak than using "BASED FAKT BASED BASED" as an expression of an "opinion", I haven't heard it yet. It doesn't make them sound smart, edgy, or "anti-establishment"; it makes them sound like they can't just explain their opinions. (And whether it originated with them or not, neo-nazis seem to love that word.)
Yeah, my issue is how this term came from a clover-themed site I won't name and yeah some problematic people used that term regarding some serious subject.

Maybe I shouldn't have reacted to them I agree but in the other hand I prefer when someone develop their opinion instead of using an internet buzzword.

By the way, remember that you can just block trolls from showing up on your end by going to their user page and clicking "Ignore." It seems more necessary with some people here than others.
Duly noted, thanks.

On a related note, the insanity defence is not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "go directly to jail for life" card. Admitting to being unable to control oneself is saying that one shouldn't be allowed to interact with others for everyone's safety. I'd assume it doesn't work much differently for any troll who argues it in forums.
Aren't there institutions made to help people in that case to begin with?

Sadly real criminals used that claim thinking they could get scoff free so it's hard to tell if someone is truly not responsible of their action or faking it... Mental health is still a fairly new field of neurology and psychiatry and while I agree that we used to throw too many people who needed to get healed instead of thrown in prison this is still a subject that isn't fully grasped.


Anyway, we should continue with the main subject and not derailing it too far.




Why were older devs loving to put small, hard to hit enemies in platformers?
 
Oh i remembered another one:

- VNs and Interactive Fiction count as games.
 
Oh i remembered another one:

- VNs and Interactive Fiction count as games.
Well, they could fulfil the strict definition of a video game (interactive program on a screen) but I think they don't count as "games" if there is no actual rule nor win/lose condition (nor any specific goal).

I'm sorry but while I like the Ace Attorney and Zero Escape series they at least had some gameplay elements (AA has investigation sections and ZE has puzzle rooms).

If a game is only about text with little to no game over/branching paths then I would call it more like an e-book than a video game.

Even Chunsoft's Sound Novels and Point 'n Clicks have some sort of interaction beyond just advancing the text.
 
@miguk

Well a warning was issued in this case already, and I commented just to make it clear we took notice of the argument. It's not an insinuation of guilt on everyone's part.
Good to hear. I was not referring to you as blaming everyone else. I was talking about the self-appointed "moderator" who decided that the best thing to do was blame the victim and egg on the trolls to attack. I'm not about to forget that happened when talking about being driven out of a thread by them. Though I should have made that more clear.
 
I'm genuinely lost in this story (either because I got a bad memory or didn't notice).


I understand why some are upset at the NSO but in the same time I'm glad they're putting semi-obscure and obscure games people wouldn't have bought (nor even downloaded the rom of) to discover.

I do wish they would put rare games (like Satellaview, Famicom Disk System exclusive or even 64DD).
 
I'm genuinely lost in this story (either because I got a bad memory or didn't notice).


I understand why some are upset at the NSO but in the same time I'm glad they're putting semi-obscure and obscure games people wouldn't have bought (nor even downloaded the rom of) to discover.

I do wish they would put rare games (like Satellaview, Famicom Disk System exclusive or even 64DD).
I might be missing the context here, but as far as NSO is concerned, I figured the animosity is the value proposition. It's really not terrible, but updates are slow, they can't get a lot of the big games that people want, and the initial state of N64 games was disappointing.
 

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