Hot takes

[Badseed Badseed]

People can call FF7 as much as they want but we cannot undermines how it made JRPGs as a whole much more popular in the west and how deep the story was compared to most JRPGs around (especially regarding Cloud and his identity).

Too bad the sequels and other FF missed the point.

I call BS, FF7 didnt make RPGs more popular in the west, but rather ALL the RPGs on this "New Amazing 3D system" called the PS1 did that. You had all released the same year Breath of Fire 3, Saga Frontier, FFT, Grandia, Alundra, the list goes on and on. You, like most people are overestimating FF7's importance. Remember: Nothing can survive in a vaccum. As for Cloud's identity, He gets Mako poisioning, loses his mind, decides he will take the identity of his superior, get modified by an alien, gets his mind back because of love, and than he becomes the true hero as his true self. Yes, thats about as deep as a gutter puddle.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

I call BS, FF7 didnt make RPGs more popular in the west, but rather ALL the RPGs on this "New Amazing 3D system" called the PS1 did that. You had all released the same year Breath of Fire 3, Saga Frontier, FFT, Grandia, Alundra, the list goes on and on. You, like most people are overestimating FF7's importance. Remember: Nothing can survive in a vaccum. As for Cloud's identity, He gets Mako poisioning, loses his mind, decides he will take the identity of his superior, get modified by an alien, gets his mind back because of love, and than he becomes the true hero as his true self. Yes, thats about as deep as a gutter puddle.

FFVII just had the most advertising bucks behind it, so that much is absolutely true..

However, that kind of post-modern deconstruction can be applied to literally ANY STORY EVER.. Post-modernest deconstructions exist for everything from the Iliad & Odyssey, the Bible, all of Shakespeare, Lord of the Rings... you name it, and it can be deconstructed. That doesn't take away anything from the original work(s).

Post-modernism is just an resentful anti-philosophy for resentful, uncreative midwits to make themselves FEEL smart by deconstructing something that other people enjoy just for the sake of making themselves FEEL superior to others, despite being totally incapable of creating anything of meaningful value themselves..

 

[Badseed Badseed]

FFVII just had the most advertising bucks behind it, so that much is absolutely true..

However, that kind of post-modern deconstruction can be applied to literally ANY STORY EVER.. Post-modernest deconstructions exist for everything from the Iliad & Odyssey, the Bible, all of Shakespeare, Lord of the Rings... you name it, and it can be deconstructed. That doesn't take away anything from the original work(s).

Post-modernism is just an resentful anti-philosophy for resentful, uncreative midwits to make themselves FEEL smart by deconstructing something that other people enjoy just for the sake of making themselves FEEL superior to others, despite being totally incapable of creating anything of meaningful value themselves..

thank you, I think. I am a dimwit that is superior to no one, however I have created MANY things of value in my long life. As a degree holder in Philosophy, I very much appreciate your application of post-modernism, I prefer Epistemic externalism however. Remember: reality is subjective and can be constructed

Ask Friedrich Nietzsche

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

thank you, I think. I am a dimwit that is superior to no one, however I have created MANY things of value in my long life. As a degree holder in Philosophy, I very much appreciate your application of post-modernism, I prefer Epistemic externalism however. Remember: reality is subjective and can be constructed

Ask Friedrich Nietzsche

Midwit, not dimwit, there is a difference. Statistically speaking, there are FAR more midwits, than dimwits, in any given population..
I'm calling it out as post-modernism, which itself was built on Critical Theory aka Deconstructionalism by a different, fancier sounding name... as the French academic hacks that developed it (Derrida, Foucault, et al.) were just a group of 'PDF-iphile' grifters who wrote in overly complex & flowery language to dress-up a bunch of BS ideas; to make them sound smarter & more profound than they actually were, and to thus confuse the average person from seeing through said BS ideas. Because if you use a bunch of big words, you must be smart, right... RiGhT?? And if "everything is subjective," then nothing is true; nothing is concrete; nothing is sacred; EVERYTHING can be deconstructed & atomized, and thus ultimately rendered illegitimate... Which is, of course, all a load of quasi-intellectual BULLSHIT..

And as far Nietzsche is concerned. He's probably one of, if not THE, most frequently misunderstood & misquoted philosophers in history. As Nietzsche (via 'Will to Power') arguably represents the "end" of the "Great Conversation," that we call Western Philosophy, that "began" with Socrates/Plato. Sure, he may have "philosophize(d) with a hammer," but it was hammer that was constructed by a system's own edicts. Meaning that he furiously, and mercilessly, judged a government/philosophy/religion/etc. by it's own standards; and not just for the hell of it... or to make himself FEEL smarter than those around him; He already was... As Nietzsche was smart enough to predict the absolute genocidal disaster(s) that defined the 20th century..

TL;DR: Deconstruction is over-rated..

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Remember: reality is subjective and can be constructed.

That's a really debatable subject there.

Science is based on an objective reality.

 

[PhaseJump]

I call BS, FF7 didnt make RPGs more popular in the west, but rather ALL the RPGs on this "New Amazing 3D system" called the PS1 did that. You had all released the same year Breath of Fire 3, Saga Frontier, FFT, Grandia, Alundra, the list goes on and on. You, like most people are overestimating FF7's importance. Remember: Nothing can survive in a vaccum. As for Cloud's identity, He gets Mako poisioning, loses his mind, decides he will take the identity of his superior, get modified by an alien, gets his mind back because of love, and than he becomes the true hero as his true self. Yes, thats about as deep as a gutter puddle.

View attachment 121950

JRPGs were niche. FF7 took them mainstream and helped to put a nail in the N64's coffin. Pokemon took over the world in 1998.

Whether or not they were shallow isn't even worth thinking about. Even to this day, JRPGs are mostly juvenile power fantasy trash filled with anime tropes and recycled nonsense writing that appeals to children.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

FF7 took them mainstream and helped to put a nail in the N64's coffin.

Eh, I'd beg to differ since Mario 64 and later Ocarina of Time (along with Rareware games) would help the console and I'd also argue that OoT easily triumph over 80% of the PSX library and makes them seem antiquated when they lack dualshock support.

It would be more about putting a nail on the Saturn's coffin in the west since it failed both for the western audience and making revolutionary 3D games.

 

[PhaseJump]

Eh, I'd beg to differ since Mario 64 and later Ocarina of Time (along with Rareware games) would help the console.

It would be more about putting a nail on the Saturn's coffin in the west since it failed both for the western audience and making revolutionary 3D games.

SNES fans waited for RPGs, they jumped ship to Playstation due to the FF7 marketing. Nintendo's decline started from there. Their handhelds kept them going.

The big 3D platformers, party games, multiplayer stuff like Goldeneye kept them around, but they never recovered as ever offering a platform with a huge library flooded with everything until Switch, which unified their platforms anyway.

 

[Badseed Badseed]

Midwit, not dimwit, there is a difference. Statistically speaking, there are FAR more midwits, than dimwits, in any given population..
I'm calling it out as post-modernism, which itself was built on Critical Theory aka Deconstructionalism by a different, fancier sounding name... as the French academic hacks that developed it (Derrida, Foucault, et al.) were just a group of 'PDF-iphile' grifters who wrote in overly complex & flowery language to dress-up a bunch of BS ideas; to make them sound smarter & more profound than they actually were, and to thus confuse the average person from seeing through said BS ideas. Because if you use a bunch of big words, you must be smart, right... RiGhT?? And if "everything is subjective," then nothing is true; nothing is concrete; nothing is sacred; EVERYTHING can be deconstructed & atomized, and thus ultimately rendered illegitimate... Which is, of course, all a load of quasi-intellectual BULLSHIT..

And as far Nietzsche is concerned. He's probably one of, if not THE, most frequently misunderstood & misquoted philosophers in history. As Nietzsche (via 'Will to Power') arguably represents the "end" of the "Great Conversation," that we call Western Philosophy, that "began" with Socrates/Plato. Sure, he may have "philosophize(d) with a hammer," but it was hammer that was constructed by a system's own edicts. Meaning that he furiously, and mercilessly, judged a government/philosophy/religion/etc. by it's own standards; and not just for the hell of it... or to make himself FEEL smarter than those around him; He already was... As Nietzsche was smart enough to predict the absolute genocidal disaster(s) that defined the 20th century..

TL;DR: Deconstruction is over-rated..

Actually, I'm smart because I watch Jeopardy! and answer VERY,VERY loudly.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

SNES fans waited for RPGs, they jumped ship to Playstation due to the FF7 marketing.

Video game isn't just about RPGs though.

Nintendo's decline started from there. Their handhelds kept them going. The big 3D platformers, party games, multiplayer stuff like Goldeneye kept them around, but they never recovered as ever offering a platform with a huge library flooded with everything until Switch, which unified their platforms anyway.

You forgot about how massively successful the Wii was and I could argue that the N64 and GameCube were still good consoles. Calling it a "decline" may be a bit exaggerating.

Also remember that the quantity of the library isn't systematically linked to its quality, I can have a smaller one if the games are still strong (especially their first party ones).

It was Sega who actually started declining around the time of the Saturn and even if the Dreamcast was a better console it couldn't reach the same success as the Genesis.

 

[PhaseJump]

You forgot about how massively successful the Wii was and I could argue that the N64 and GameCube were still good consoles. Calling it a "decline" may be a bit exaggerating.

Also remember that the quantity of the library isn't systematically linked to its quality, I can have a smaller one if the games are still strong (especially their first party ones).

It was Sega who actually started declining around the time of the Saturn and even if the Dreamcast was a better console it couldn't reach the same success as the Genesis.

Decline is exactly what it was. NES > SNES > N64 > Gamecube. No exaggeration.

Wii was an overclocked Gamecube with motion controls and a virtual console.
It went from being a "revolution" to becoming a shovelware polluted platform where games never sold well, a weak secondary platform by most gamers, only for first party Nintendo software.

Wii U didn't win over casuals or secondary platform status again and the decline went worse than Gamecube. The handhelds kept them going, and they unified their development around the Switch.


Sega peaked with Genesis, fragmented their market with CD and 32X addons, released nothing good for them, spent money on Gamegear, stockpiled the entire lot of them to meet retailer committments, destroyed trust in their brand, spent money putting a 68k powered battery killer named Nomad on the market, pushed Saturn to the world without localizing the Japanese software, liquidated the 16-bit inventory, spent money on 2 Dreamcast prototypes, helped kill 3dfx, and burned their cash on Shenmue which needed to sell more copies than there were consoles to break even.

Decline at Sega is an understatement. It was madness.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Video game isn't just about RPGs though.

You forgot about how massively successful the Wii was and I could argue that the N64 and GameCube were still good consoles. Calling it a "decline" may be a bit exaggerating.

Also remember that the quantity of the library isn't systematically linked to its quality, I can have a smaller one if the games are still strong (especially their first party ones).

It was Sega who actually started declining around the time of the Saturn and even if the Dreamcast was a better console it couldn't reach the same success as the Genesis.

The N64 was the first crack in Nintendo's dominance, because it lost hard to PS1. Then, the Gamecube was absolutely wrecked by the PS2 AND Xbox. The Wii turned a profit almost exclusively off of the normie/non-Gamer market (Wii Sports sold more Wii's than literally ANYTHING else on the system), and at least somewhat off of how badly Sony fucked-up with the PS3. But, meanwhile, Nintendo has always had the handheld market ON-LOCK, which allowed them the breathing room to stick to their in-house strategy.

Sega, unfortunately, screwed themselves..

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Wii was an overclocked Gamecube with motion controls and a virtual console.

What does that change about the game's quality?

It went from being a "revolution" to becoming a shovelware polluted platform where games never sold well, a weak secondary platform by most gamers, only for first party Nintendo software.

Popular console with shovelware isn't exclusive to this one, even the PSX and PS2 had plenty, that's statistical.

First party games is the primary reason to buy a Nintendo console.

Sega peaked with Genesis, fragmented their market with CD and 32X addons, released nothing good for them, spent money on Gamegear, stockpiled the entire lot of them to meet retailer committments, destroyed trust in their brand, spent money putting a 68k powered battery killer named Nomad on the market, pushed Saturn to the world without localizing the Japanese software, liquidated the 16-bit inventory, spent money on 2 Dreamcast prototypes, helped kill 3dfx, and burned their cash on Shenmue which needed to sell more copies than there were consoles to break even.

Decline at Sega is an understatement. It was madness.

I think there were good Sega CD games.

On the other hand how did they kill 3DFX? As for Shenmue at least it was an ambitious title (maybe overly ambitious). Sega had good ideas but bad timing, it was too soon for online.

The Wii turned a profit almost exclusively off of the normie/non-Gamer market (Wii Sports sold more Wii's than literally ANYTHING else on the system), and at least somewhat off of how badly Sony fucked-up with the PS3. But, meanwhile, Nintendo has always had the handheld market ON-LOCK, which allowed them the breathing room to stick to their in-house strategy.

I think that in the 00's casual gamers became a more valid playerbase, video games were no longer something seeing as "for nerds" or people who knows a lot about electronics.

Motion gaming was also a new trend so it was understandable that they chose this instead of aiming for more realistic graphics and raw power.

In a way this is how video game should evolve, not just trying to replicate real life.

 

[Guinea]

It sucks when a game gets a remaster and they alter the script.

Marvel vs. Capcom was better before it went 3D.

Marvelous and Natsume need to kiss and make up because Harvest Moon and Story of Seasons just don't hit the same anymore.

Animal Crossing Pocket Camp Complete would be better if it was COMPLETE. I want my Mario items.

The Zelda series is stagnant as fuck. The wild era can go straight to hell.

Rabble rabble rabble grumpy old nerdy man.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

It sucks when a game gets a remaster and they alter the script.

I agree about when they censor it but Zelda ALTTP on the GBA had to change "Wise Men" to "Sages" because of OoT and how they removed the ambiguity about that one sentence implying that "Zelda is your sister". Same if the new script is closer to the original.

Marvel vs. Capcom was better before it went 3D.

That's not a hot take.

Animal Crossing Pocket Camp Complete would be better if it was COMPLETE. I want my Mario items.

That's why I hate FOMO in any game of any form.

The Zelda series is stagnant as fuck. The wild era can go straight to hell.

Sorry but Zelda was stagnant with Skyward Sword doing the same formula since '98, BotW was the breath of fresh air needed. Also the series still got top down entries and EoC didn't recycle the ALTTP formula.

What do you want the series to do instead?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:07 PM

NES > SNES > N64 > Gamecube. No exaggeration.

I'd still argue that the Super NES was better in almost (if not every) ways than the NES and the N64 was probably slightly better than the GC in term of revolutionary games (and Rareware still making games on it).

Ocarina of Time is easily the one of the five best game of the fifth generation if not even the 90's as a whole.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

I think that in the 00's casual gamers became a more valid playerbase, video games were no longer something seeing as "for nerds" or people who knows a lot about electronics.

Replace "more valid" with "bigger," and you would be correct. But this move had more to do with publicly-traded corporations pursuing infinity growth, than it ever had to do with making a better product..

Motion gaming was also a new trend so it was understandable that they chose this instead of aiming for more realistic graphics and raw power.

In a way this is how video game should evolve, not just trying to replicate real life.

On the other hand, I do agree with you here. I've had a bone to pick with what I coined as "graphic whores" for decades now. Dumbass consoomers that are into the "new hotness" just for the sake of being slightly better looking than the last thing are a cancer on the medium as a whole..

 

[PhaseJump]

What does that change about the game's quality?


Popular console with shovelware isn't exclusive to this one, even the PSX and PS2 had plenty, that's statistical.

First party games is the primary reason to buy a Nintendo console.

First party games became the only reason to buy a Nintendo console. It's why fans dropped off of their hardware at all and used them as a secondary platform for the last two decades.

I think there were good Sega CD games.

A few, and nowhere near enough to justify the cost. Sega killed CD, had no business releasing the 32X, and they killed Saturn. Nobody had confidence in their platforms.

On the other hand how did they kill 3DFX? As for Shenmue at least it was an ambitious title (maybe overly ambitious). Sega had good ideas but bad timing, it was too soon for online.

Sega broke contracts with 3dfx as they were building the abandoned Blackbelt prototype. Sega was sued over it. 3dfx eventually went under. Microsoft's WindowsCE and Direct X was no longer a primary focus. The Xbox was going ahead anyway.

It was not too soon for online, Sega had Heat.net. They just couldn't afford to compete and pissed everybody off along the way.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Replace "more valid" with "bigger," and you would be correct. But this move had more to do with publicly-traded corporations pursuing infinity growth, than it ever had to do with making a better product..

They got bigger but I can not dislike someone for wanting to make games more accessible to people. I mean people who grew up with the NES and SNES probably became parents in the mid 2000's so it's normal to prefer having them to play with their children. Same with people above the average age being more interested in gaming than before as well.

The gaming playerbase has simply evolved from the 90's after all.

On the other hand, I do agree with you here. I've had a bone to pick with what I coined as "graphic whores" for decades now. Dumbass consoomers that are into the "new hotness" just for the sake of being slightly better looking than the last thing are a cancer on the medium as a whole..

When it comes to graphics people would rather go on PC since it's where the powerful GPUs and high quality texture packs are but I'd also say that movies or going outside also "provides pretty graphics".

I was actually more impressed by the Havok Engine and NVIDIA PhysX among other physics engines from computers than just graphical fidelity.

It's interesting how the Wii lacked HD compared to the other two competing consoles yet I still find that several games on it stood well visually when most PS360 suffered from that yellow filter effect that ended up being really detrimental on the visuals.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:19 PM

First party games became the only reason to buy a Nintendo console. It's why fans dropped off of their hardware at all and used them as a secondary platform for the last two decades.

I'm sorry but why secondary? I mean people also bought a Xbox for Halo and a Sony console for Metal Gear, Resident Evil, FF or other SCE games.

Or else you'd just go to PC for most third parties.

A few, and nowhere near enough to justify the cost. Sega killed CD, had no business releasing the 32X, and they killed Saturn. Nobody had confidence in their platforms.

The Saturn could've done it better if it was for the marketing, in Japan it was quite working well because they had good games to provide while the US blocking things like Sakura Wars among others was a bad move.

I mean why the Pro version of modern consoles are not an issue to people nowadays when it's not too dissimilar to that?

Sega broke contracts with 3dfx as they were building the abandoned Blackbelt prototype. Sega was sued over it. 3dfx eventually went under. Microsoft's WindowsCE and Direct X was no longer a primary focus. The Xbox was going ahead anyway.

Maybe 3dfx was doomed to fail after DirectX, Sega or not.

It was not too soon for online, Sega had Heat.net. They just couldn't afford to compete and pissed everybody off along the way.

On the other hand we can still appreciate the efforts to make things evolving for gaming outside of just making more powerful hardware.

 

[Sayo Sayo]

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the Hot Takes thread. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical user's head. There's also Metroid_Hybrid's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The posters understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these posts, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike this thread truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Hybrid's existencial catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Badseed's genius unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a Hot Takes tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

 

[Guinea]

Digital is better than physical.

 

[Sirekso]

Game Freak should have stopped after Sinnoh. They could’ve ended on a high note with the Gen 2 remakes.

It’s become antiquated and lost all soul. As someone whose earliest gaming memory is opening Pokémon Red on Christmas morning back in the 90s, I’ll always cherish the time I spent with the series. But it’s time we all accept that it’s dead and has been for a while.

 

[Sayo Sayo]

Game Freak should have stopped after Sinnoh. They could’ve ended on a high note with the Gen 2 remakes.

It’s become antiquated and lost all soul. As someone whose earliest gaming memory is opening Pokémon Red on Christmas morning back in the 90s, I’ll always cherish the time I spent with the series. But it’s time we all accept that it’s dead and has been for a while.

Even if Game Freak stopped developing the series, there's so much money behind it (largest IP in the world) that it would've kept going regardless of developer, sadly. But I strongly agree with you, I would go as far as to not even call this a hot take.

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

Dpads are more practical and maybe even comfortable than joysticks

 

[PhaseJump]

I'm sorry but why secondary? I mean people also bought a Xbox for Halo and a Sony console for Metal Gear, Resident Evil, FF or other SCE games.

Or else you'd just go to PC for most third parties.

Were you under a rock or something?

For at least 20 years now, most gamers have said they would play on PC/Xbox/Playstation, and buy Nintendo second as a complimentary thing just for the Nintendo first party games.

Why? Because Nintendo hardware was weak, it had no comparable online gaming infrastructure or social networking, and it didn't offer the latest and greatest contemporary multiplatform games.

Stuff like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft happened.

The Saturn could've done it better if it was for the marketing, in Japan it was quite working well because they had good games to provide while the US blocking things like Sakura Wars among others was a bad move.

I mean why the Pro version of modern consoles are not an issue to people nowadays when it's not too dissimilar to that?

The Saturn could have done better if it was marketed right and had software.

The 32X and CD both cost a fortune, were add-ons to a console people would need if they wanted to jump into it, and they had no software support. The 32X was pure garbage. CD was marketed around FMV games and that entire fad died out with 3D gaming.

Customers were left stranded with expensive crap and a shift to another round of bullshit hype for the next console. A console that was more expensive than the Playstation.

Sega fans dropped off, like Nintendo fans. Slowly jumping ship to Playstation and Playstation 2 where they would get drowned in game releases for all the different genres.

Maybe 3dfx was doomed to fail after DirectX, Sega or not.

Sega broke their contract in bad faith and it threw 3dfx under the bus. They were sued over it. The Voodoo 3 based console was cancelled, and repackaged as an arcade board. In the same process, Sega diminished their partnership with people at Microsoft who were working on and probably setting expectations around their devkit helping to make Windows CE a more attractive product.

Dreamcast hardware went on to use Sega's own SDK, support for the CE kit was there but it wasn't front and center. It wasn't on every machine. The OS and ran from game discs. This ultimately wouldn't help them appeal to the licensing-deal junkie Microsoft, when the nerds over at team Xbox figuratively took the flag and stepped over Dreamcast's corpse.

On the other hand we can still appreciate the efforts to make things evolving for gaming outside of just making more powerful hardware.

We can all appreciate that Sega made efforts to burn money it didn't have on multiple prototypes, burn bridges with retailers, developers, customers, and mismanage everything.

Their greatest accomplishment was the Genesis using good hardware, getting solid support away from Nintendo, but then they milked the hedgehog to death for a few years, ran out of money trying to keep committments to retailers, and they figuratively burned their own house down when reacting to Sony.


I love Sega more than any of them. Their arcade division is the only thing that kept them functional, and the rest of it was a glorious shit show.