Classic Sonic Thread

[Ikagura]

So, a lore theory I’ve had for a while, we know that not all Sonic stories are a part of the same line of plots (AOSTH, SATAM, Prime, X, Boom, Movies, OVA, etc.) but as I’ve been playing a lot of Saturn and SEGA Arcade goodness, I’ve had this thought:

I find it weird how Sonic SatAM and Underground both shared the same kind of setting (Robotnik having already "won" his conquest of the world) and design (for the Doctor) yet still is its own continuity with its own plot instead of being a continuation of the former.

Sonic X is still the only japan made fully-fledged anime despite that the franchise is from Japan (he got more comics than mangas too).

Boom was also the only continuity that was explicitly an alternative series but at that point why having the Sonic IP stitched to it? I almost believe it was a last hour change.

Is Sonic The Fighters in its own lore as well? Or, more importantly, a shared universe with many of SEGA’s arcade games. It would make sense enough, with there being eight emeralds, Eggman’s cloning tech, and Honey the Cat potentially being a character who would be an in-universe cosplayer of some kind? It would also make Fighters Megamix canonized for Sonic the Fighters, which would in turn connect Sonic The Fighters with all the other games SEGA AM2 and AM3 were making.

I consider it a spinoff the same way that Smash Bros isn't canon to any of the franchises it represented (Brawl introduced the "World of Trophies" which implies it's its own thing).

I could believe that Sega AM2's games could share the same universe in the same way Yu Suzuki's games are being referenced in all of his work.

It’s food for thought, more than anything. I wouldn’t take it too seriously, as Classic Sonic lore beyond the mainline adventures (1, 2, CD, 3&K, Mania, Superstars) is pretty loosey goosey as it is. I’m still not FULLY CONVINCED Mania Adventures is actually canonical to the Mania game, but that’s for another day and I’d need to get my story straight on that one before proposing a full on theory.

Mania Adventure absolutely implies that it takes place right after Forces (from Classic's pov) but in the same time this could be just a small bonus movie not meant to be taken as canon the same way you could say that Sonic X having Adventure, SA2 and Battle isn't canon to the games either.

Forces still messed up the whole "you're that Sonic from another dimension" when Generations said it was a younger, less experienced Sonic. I could accept that Generations changed Classic's perspective from Modern so that there could be a "split" in the timeline where, instead of going to Sonic 4 Episode 1&2, he went for Sonic Mania instead as Dr. Robotnik knew that his future self is basically a loser that couldn't beat Sonic in all the time between Sonic 2 and Sonic Colours (which was the then-latest entry before this one) thus leading to Classic's pov to be parallel to Modern until Forces reunited them again.

Honestly, more than anything, I’m happy to be in a place where I can talk about Sonic’s world again with some seriousness! Whatever you may think of recent titles, the positivity around Sonic right now is infectious and I’m just happy to know that kids are currently growing up with a pretty cool time to be a Sonic fan. Certainly a better childhood with the blue blur than I had!

My only issue is that the latest entries for a decade are almost all reusing older levels and relying on nostalgia.

It's fine when a game does that from time to time but Sonic is still stuck in the past (which is ironic for someone loving to go forward).

Sega and the current Sonic Team are not confident enough to even have a fully fledged Shadow the Hedgehog game and needed to transplant it to a remaster of a well-liked game (with the same mechanic as the then-latest entry for its hub).

Even Superstar couldn't be a good sequel to Mania despite that they got the formula right.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

I wanted to post this in my own thread, but I felt it would probably merge with my own posts, so not right now.

I just beat Sonic R on the SEGA Saturn! It’s been a comfort game for years, but I’ve been playing the PC version running off the GameCube’s Gems Collection. This has been my first time playing the actual Saturn release of the game, and it’ll probably be how I play going forward, after I finish my goal of getting the maximum amount of completed files on the GameCube version (I’ve played it A LOT).

I noticed some audio differences (Metal Sonic makes a jet noise while Tails’ propeller is completely silent), some handling differences (I weirdly had an easy time playing as Sonic this time? Knuckles doesn’t handle as tight in this version, and I vibed more with how Sonic handled, so I mained him for most of the game), and MASSIVE differences in how the game looks. It’s so much prettier on Saturn! More transparencies, more depth to the effects, a more gradual graphical pop-in, and it’s just a unique kind of title for the old Saturn, which has never been the BEST console for large, intricate, 3D playfields. The game has some significant slowdown in areas that the later versions don’t have, so that’s a big trade off, but still I preferred playing it here perhaps because it’s just so different to the game I’ve known all these years.

I was playing on Hard AI opponents the whole game, and they can be slippery but foolish. I felt like the AI was nicely balanced on that difficulty and I had some darn close races with the likes of Knuckles and Metal Sonic!

As for what I did, I beat the game 100% (All Emeralds, all first place, all Characters unlocked). Then, I beat Radiant Emerald AGAIN but as Super Sonic (I used regular Sonic the first time). Then, I attempted to tag Super Sonic with the Tails Doll (we will get back to this), and then I managed to beat Radiant Emerald with the freaky doll to get that lovely image I posted up top!

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:35 AM

As for Tag 4: it’s a WAY better and more balanced mode in this version of the game. Opponents are slowed, but not too much. It actually presents a fair and fun challenge!
This is in contrast to later versions of the game where its total garbage.



But, one thing that isn’t in this version:
YOU CANNOT TAG SUPER SONIC WITH TAILS DOLL!
In standard races, it defaults to Super Sonic, yes, but in Tag 4 suddenly NORMAL SONIC is in there. And this happens no matter what you do. Spooky.

But, yeah, that makes the old creepypasta’s even more nonsense than they already were. Any creepypasta who claimed to have done that on SEGA Saturn, while obviously already lying, clearly has never even TRIED IT on actual hardware.


And I think that’s kinda funny.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:36 AM

 

[Ikagura]

Sonic R has a serious problem of not having enough characters and tracks compared to Mario Kart 64...

I still liked the improvement the PC port added with the fan-made launcher.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Sonic R has a serious problem of not having enough characters and tracks compared to Mario Kart 64...

I still liked the improvement the PC port added with the fan-made launcher.

As somebody who’s been playing all the Saturn racing games by SEGA (oh no, I’m going to need a US copy of Sonic R at some point…), this game has a LOT of content in comparison with most Saturn racers! But, you’re right, this game was released the year after MK 64. It has a similar roster of characters, but it’s MASSIVELY lacking in tracks. But the more difficult part is the handling, which is very loose. It makes the game hard to play for new and even intermediate players, which can make the game’s most fun aspects difficult to see.

But, as you said, thankfully the Sonic community comes to the rescue again!

 

[Tonberry]

I posted my thoughts on Sonic Frontiers in the ”What did you play today?” thread after finally getting to try it and my thoughts remain the same so far.

But MAN, the cyberspace music is like constantly great! I’ve been listening to it all week, legit can’t get enough of it.
This one is probably my favorite:

It doesn’t necessarily sound like Sonic music, but it definitely sounds like Sega music. Fast arcadey electronic goodness.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

I posted my thoughts on Sonic Frontiers in the ”What did you play today?” thread after finally getting to try it and my thoughts remain the same so far.

But MAN, the cyberspace music is like constantly great! I’ve been listening to it all week, legit can’t get enough of it.
This one is probably my favorite:

It doesn’t necessarily sound like Sonic music, but it definitely sounds like Sega music. Fast arcadey electronic goodness.

It’s funny, I say it sounds like Sonic music, but specifically the kind of music Ohtani likes to make. That man LOVES electronic music.

You can listen to some tracks he’s composed since 06 and you’ll find an evolution across his career of slowly getting better at making electronic music.

 

[Tonberry]

It’s funny, I say it sounds like Sonic music, but specifically the kind of music Ohtani likes to make. That man LOVES electronic music.

You can listen to some tracks he’s composed since 06 and you’ll find an evolution across his career of slowly getting better at making electronic music.

I LOVE the soundtrack to 06, it's easily my favorite 3D Sonic soundtrack. Did he make Wave Ocean? Because that's like my favorite level music in the entire 3D library.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

I LOVE the soundtrack to 06, it's easily my favorite 3D Sonic soundtrack. Did he make Wave Ocean? Because that's like my favorite level music in the entire 3D library.

He was the main composer of the OST, yes.

I cite White Acropolis as an example of what I’m talking about. I also cite Eggmanland from Unleashed, all of colors’ OST, certain tracks of Lava Mountain in Lost World, and all of Forces.

Again, a lot can be said for all of these, but it’s clear he was experimenting on the job. While this results in some very low lows (Forces is dominated by a very screechy choice of synth used on many of Modern Sonic’s tracks) it all came together for Frontiers. It probably helped that he had five years to tweak and perfect the music of the game (even though he said in interviews that the ost was composed about four years before the game launched).

 

[Ikagura]

I liked Naganuma and Kobayashi's work on Sonic.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

For a personal take, I find it absurd that Sonic hasn’t had a bigger hip-hop influence over the years. With the aesthetic of the character taken by his lonesome, you’d think it’d be a match made in heaven. And when it is attempted, or even teased, it makes for some great stuff!
Also, I would personally petition for Ohtani to step away and work on other projects at SEGA soon. His work has gotten to a great point, clearly, but he’s a big fish in a small pond and it’s clear that anything rock adjacent has stuck as being “the Sonic sound” with time. Time has proven that to be the most loved sound by the community, and I think it would benefit the series to have a music composer who’s more passionate about that side of music.

Perhaps Ohtani can go over and work on that new VF project in the works! Or some songs for the new Streets Of Rage they’re making! He can and should continue to do work at SEGA, I just would like to get a new composer, as he’s been in the composing role for… oh gosh, almost as long as I’ve been alive. If he took over that role in 2006, I would have been 3, so that means he’s coming up on 20 years in the seat and that can’t really be healthy for any artist.

 

[Tonberry]

I liked Naganuma and Kobayashi's work on Sonic.

Hell yeah.
I was always jealous of my friend who had Sonic Rush because I thought it looked so cool. Didn't know about Naganuma until JSR so I discovered his Sonic stuff retroactively. Really cool stuff.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Hell yeah.
I was always jealous of my friend who had Sonic Rush because I thought it looked so cool. Didn't know about Naganuma until JSR so I discovered his Sonic stuff retroactively. Really cool stuff.

He’s still got it too! Check out Bomb Rush Cyberfunk and Leathal League Blaze for more of his recent work.

 

[Tonberry]

For a personal take, I find it absurd that Sonic hasn’t had a bigger hip-hop influence over the years.

I'm inclined to agree. I love the ska stuff from because it's nostalgic, but it definitely doesn't have the cool factor that hip-hop inherently has.

As long as it's energetic and fun!

 

[Piper Halliwell]

Sonic R has a serious problem of not having enough characters and tracks compared to Mario Kart 64...

I still liked the improvement the PC port added with the fan-made launcher.

I agree with you. I haven’t played Sonic R but I’ve seen countless of video essays about its development and gameplay. Though, I’m impressed they were able to achieve with the final product and brought a wonderful soundtrack that is one of my favorites throughout the Sonic series.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24]

I agree with you. I haven’t played Sonic R but I’ve seen countless of video essays about its development and gameplay. Though, I’m impressed they were able to achieve with the final product and brought a wonderful soundtrack that is one of my favorites throughout the Sonic series.

I say this for every game, and it’s so very hard because we can’t all play every game (especially ones on more obscure hardware) but it’s best to not make judgements of a game until you yourself have played it. All I can say is that it’s a flawed but charming little game that is more than worth checking out if the price is right (or the repo is open).

 

[Piper Halliwell]

I say this for every game, and it’s so very hard because we can’t all play every game (especially ones on more obscure hardware) but it’s best to not make judgements of a game until you yourself have played it. All I can say is that it’s a flawed but charming little game that is more than worth checking out if the price is right (or the repo is open).

You’re right! I was making assumptions based on the technicalities such as the devs being unable to add reflections as they had hoped and other cut features, etc. I’ll check it out! By any chance you know of any good Saturn emulators?

 

[FTLOTG]

You’re right! I was making assumptions based on the technicalities such as the devs being unable to add reflections as they had hoped and other cut features, etc. I’ll check it out! By any chance you know of any good Saturn emulators?

Sonic R is alright, takes some time to get a handle on things like cornering and movement. Try it on Mednafen. Also use an analog controller.

 

[Piper Halliwell]

Sonic R is alright, takes some time to get a handle on things like cornering and movement. Try it on Mednafen. Also use an analog controller.

Sweet! Thanks a lot. I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve never played on a real Saturn nor on a Saturn emulator, since it was before my time. I’ve been considering playing them for the very few Sonic games that were on the system besides R.

 

[FTLOTG]

Sweet! Thanks a lot. I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve never played on a real Saturn nor on a Saturn emulator, since it was before my time. I’ve been considering playing them for the very few Sonic games that were on the system besides R.

Speaking as a huge Saturn fan, play the console for every other game on it, it's worth your time.

 

[Piper Halliwell]

Speaking as a huge Saturn fan, play the console for every other game on it, it's worth your time.

Sounds good! Are there any good rpgs you might recommend? I’m not familiar with Saturn in terms of the library it has so I’m just asking around to see what people think.

 

[FTLOTG]

Sounds good! Are there any good rpgs you might recommend? I’m not familiar with Saturn in terms of the library it has so I’m just asking around to see what people think.

Grandia is best on Saturn, but the big title is Panzer Dragoon Saga. There's other awesome exclusives like both Dragon Force games (strategy RPGs,) Baroque is a rougelite first person action RPG with an incredible story and atmosphere, and the Shining Force 3 trilogy on Saturn is excellent.

 

[Yousef]

I find it weird how Sonic SatAM and Underground both shared the same kind of setting (Robotnik having already "won" his conquest of the world) and design (for the Doctor) yet still is its own continuity with its own plot instead of being a continuation of the former.

I’d presume it’s got something to do with brand homogenization in North America and attempting to follow the Sonic Bible as their guide to how they should portray him in all subsequent media, the Archie Comics were grouped into this too as they also shared the same designs and settings early on, leading me to believe the hypothesis. It’s only North America, as the UK followed a different set of rules in the Fleetway comics, where Knuckles had a necklace and Sonic lost his Mohawk from the North American version, but was ironically given to Amy.

 

[Piper Halliwell]

Grandia is best on Saturn, but the big title is Panzer Dragoon Saga. There's other awesome exclusives like both Dragon Force games (strategy RPGs,) Baroque is a rougelite first person action RPG with an incredible story and atmosphere, and the Shining Force 3 trilogy on Saturn is excellent.

Alright! Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll go ahead and put these on my list of games to play.

 

[ThirdEidolon]

If I recall correctly (and I know I could just check, lol) Sonic Advanced came out around the same time as SA2. That one "thread-appropriate"?

Still the 2d era

 

[ThunderBoy]