According to recently polled Japanese game developers, 100% of them are currently using Gen AI

Your exacting temperament reminds me of this quote from Heidegger - "The sail of thinking keeps trimmed hard to the wind of the matter."
So fine, have it your way, I'll be the gosh-darndest Ghibelline this side of Aachen!
But asking me to prove metaphysics to a resurrected James Burnham is a tall order, especially when I'm not the biggest proponent of metaphysics myself. You'll have to excuse my weakness if I stray somewhat from our premise, I'm also conscious that we're potentially alienating those around us. I'd like to try and speak in more relatable terms.

I won't try and capitalise on an apparent contradiction in your argument, which seems to say human life has no inherent value, but that humans nevertheless benefit from this perspective. I'm sure you spoke merely to placate those in the stalls, rather than put this forward as a positive assertion. Still, I'm surprised that you bothered with the hoi polloi. Not disappointed, just surprised.

I take your argument to be quasi-Nietzschean now, power and freedom have become synonymous, you almost view industry itself like some kind of artist. If there is no inherent value, no truth, you are free to create as you see fit.
Unlike @Ken190d, who saw the market as some kind of inevitability one must submit to, your position is less passive. You seem to be defending the rights of the powerful to employ their power. You are essentially saying "if they can do this, why shouldn't they?"
And this is a powerful argument because I'm immediately thrown back onto mere sentiment. Unless I can categorically prove something essential about mankind, I'm forced into the very paradox we've been trying to escape.
But as Kant rightly demonstrated, the need for a proof does not constitute a proof. Just because objective truth suddenly feels existentially urgent, does not mean it exists.

I'm sure neither of us want to champion the neglected third option, that this dispute boils down to little more than class warfare. All societies are variegated in talent, and any efforts to constrain human difference inevitably result in totalitarian systems. Mixed constitutions are typically the most stable, with governing principles for rich and poor alike.
So there it is. Unless I want to champion a proletariat revolution, I'm forced to discover something that cannot be equivocated, and which survives all disputes.

Do you realise what you are asking of me?

But I'm sure you do, perhaps you are not looking for an answer so much as a question. This debate around AI will be perpetuated until we can put forward an enduring concept of truth.
For those outside our hermeneutical circle, here is the TL;DR version - AI is fake, but we are having difficulty proving whether we aren't fake also.
Are you giving up already? Credit where credit is due, you did better than we expected. But our overwhelming talent seems to have scored the ultimate "own goal".
We were depending on you, @Heidegger of Shinra, and you have only gone and thrown your hands at the 11th hour.

But it was a tall order, and perhaps our task exceeds the bounds of a gaming forum. Still, we are pleased to have seen your mind in action. It splutters and complains like a rusted Volkswagen, but it seems to have carried you far.

We assume you'd like us back on your side of the debate, or should we wait for @Ken190d to put forward another argument? We can serve as his dolphins, guiding his dire raft to the shores of reason.
As a brief personal aside, hopefully within the bounds of moderation. We never expected to feel such displeasure at the sight of Goku's smiling countenance.
 
I kept waiting to see if you'd just stop on your own.

But since you obviously haven't read the rules - not have any intention to follow them -, I'll pull the brakes myself.

You got yourself a couple of strikes.

Stop calling people names and baiting them into fighting you — that's not how this works.

And, for the record, I like AI too.
I did stop but if some random guy goes off topic and attacks me I'm allowed to defend myself or not? Anyway hope you're consistent and give others strikes too then.

But I am out of this thread, I'm sure Ai will keep being a hot topic here though. It will only get bigger and better.
 
Are you giving up already? Credit where credit is due, you did better than we expected. But our overwhelming talent seems to have scored the ultimate "own goal".
We were depending on you, @Heidegger of Shinra, and you have only gone and thrown your hands at the 11th hour.

But it was a tall order, and perhaps our task exceeds the bounds of a gaming forum. Still, we are pleased to have seen your mind in action. It splutters and complains like a rusted Volkswagen, but it seems to have carried you far.

We assume you'd like us back on your side of the debate, or should we wait for @Ken190d to put forward another argument? We can serve as his dolphins, guiding his dire raft to the shores of reason.
As a brief personal aside, hopefully within the bounds of moderation. We never expected to feel such displeasure at the sight of Goku's smiling countenance.
You were @Ken190d's champion, and he seems to have quit the field. Perhaps he didn't realise that you were winning on his behalf.
Maybe we'll reconvene at another time, someone will upset you and you'll once again rush to their defence. You are an odd duck (or pair of ducks), but this has been fun.
 
For some reason we never suspected you were laughing at us.
Very nice posts you made, not everyday I meet people with interesting posts ::peacemario pretty cool.
 
I did stop but if some random guy goes off topic and attacks me I'm allowed to defend myself or not? Anyway hope you're consistent and give others strikes too then.

But I am out of this thread, I'm sure Ai will keep being a hot topic here though. It will only get bigger and better.
I think you're just an ass with an inferiority complex to scared to go to 4Chan
 
I think you're just an ass with an inferiority complex to scared to go to 4Chan
Funny enough 4chan isn't even as edgy as it used to be and the posts on there can hardly be destinguished from stuff on reddit and others.

Hell I nealry got myself IP banned from there once for telling someone to
kys
in the most creative but awful way possible.
I was thinking: 'when did banter like this go out the window?'

But yeah, 4chan and the internet as a whole isn't what it used to be anymore.
 
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Lol don't forget your tin foil hat friend.

Discussing Ai is breaking the rules now, what? And sure, sure you're no luddite and purely objective...

It's the anti Ai guys constantly seething and shitting up threads whenever a new machine translated game comes out that irritates many people here, hence why I and many others fight back who are pro machine translated games to show the luddites are nothing more than a loud minority.

Anyway you trying to larp as a moderator and defend your butthurt luddite friends here is pathetic.

If you don't want to debate Ai stay out.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, you just assume the worst of anybody who has any negative opinion on AI and resort to name-calling and throwing a tantrum.
Hell, I'll even admit to being a hypocrite on the topic of AI. I've spent a considerable amount of my own time and money experimenting with different AI models over the past few years for my own personal projects and going from my own experience it just isn't there yet.

Here's some proof if you don't believe me:

1000021190.jpg
1000021200.jpg


And this is just the past few months. If I go even further back my dumbass has probably spent hundreds on this shit over the years and I'm not proud of it. So I'm not talking out of my ass here, I really wanted AI to be this useful tool everyone keeps making it out to be but it just isn't there and I honestly don't think it ever will be.

Even when you supply your own sources, these models still regularly hallucinate and insert made up bullshit that I have to go in and manually fix. Just getting one to write a simple script to shuffle some file names and randomize music in a game took countless attempts across multiple models to get something that even worked. I would've saved time and money paying someone to do it, or better yet just learning to do it myself and actually developing a useful skill.

If that's what it's like for something that simple, I can only imagine how much money and energy got wasted on these translation efforts before they landed on anything viable, because I'm almost certain they didn't get perfect output immediately.

I was so excited for the Front Mission 2 translation that was recently posted to the repo only to have it crash on me fairly early on and judging by the amount of hotfixes they've had to release in just the past two weeks to address crashes and other bug it's clear it's a vibe coded mess.

That's my issue with these projects. Whether they use AI, I used to not really care and in some cases with some of your posts I do agree with you. The technology isn't going anywhere, but accepting "slop" as it is now gives these companies zero incentive to actually improve or optimize anything. It's the quality that matters, and right now it just isn't good enough. This stuff gets posted here as if it's finished when it clearly hasn't been thoroughly tested, and all that trial and error burns real water and energy that impacts communities, including my own. So yeah, I'm pretty understanding of the people who take issue with it.

Criticizing and getting frustrated about the recent flood of shoddy AI translations being uploaded to the repo doesn't make people "luddites", it just means they have higher standards than you.

I never said AI discussion was against the rules. I was calling out your behavior of going into threads to provoke people, putting down someone's artwork just to prop up AI, and dragging politics into it by citing old Resetera drama and claiming everyone who disagrees with you is part of some left-wing cult and then calling for mods to ban them.

Anyway this is the last response I'm gonna make to this guy.
 
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indie developers also use AI Generator's
you can find it on subscribe star / patreon
well, mostly it for adult games
 
I think you're just an ass with an inferiority complex to scared to go to 4Chan

This is exactly what I'm talking about, you just assume the worst of anybody who has any negative opinion on AI and resort to name-calling and throwing a tantrum.
Hell, I'll even admit to being a hypocrite on the topic of AI. I've spent a considerable amount of my own time and money experimenting with different AI models over the past few years for my own personal projects and going from my own experience it just isn't there yet.

Here's some proof if you don't believe me:

View attachment 214098View attachment 214100

And this is just the past few months. If I go even further back my dumbass has probably spent hundreds on this shit over the years and I'm not proud of it. So I'm not talking out of my ass here, I really wanted AI to be this useful tool everyone keeps making it out to be but it just isn't there and I honestly don't think it ever will be.

Even when you supply your own sources, these models still regularly hallucinate and insert made up bullshit that I have to go in and manually fix. Just getting one to write a simple script to shuffle some file names and randomize music in a game took countless attempts across multiple models to get something that even worked. I would've saved time and money paying someone to do it, or better yet just learning to do it myself and actually developing a useful skill.

If that's what it's like for something that simple, I can only imagine how much money and energy got wasted on these translation efforts before they landed on anything viable, because I'm almost certain they didn't get perfect output immediately.

I was so excited for the Front Mission 2 translation that was recently posted to the repo only to have it crash on me fairly early on and judging by the amount of hotfixes they've had to release in just the past two weeks to address crashes and other bug it's clear it's a vibe coded mess.

That's my issue with these projects. Whether they use AI, I used to not really care and in some cases with some of your posts I do agree with you. The technology isn't going anywhere, but accepting "slop" as it is now gives these companies zero incentive to actually improve or optimize anything. It's the quality that matters, and right now it just isn't good enough. This stuff gets posted here as if it's finished when it clearly hasn't been thoroughly tested, and all that trial and error burns real water and energy that impacts communities, including my own. So yeah, I'm pretty understanding of the people who take issue with it.

Criticizing and getting frustrated about the recent flood of shoddy AI translations being uploaded to the repo doesn't make people "luddites", it just means they have higher standards than you.

I never said AI discussion was against the rules. I was calling out your behavior of going into threads to provoke people, putting down someone's artwork just to prop up AI, and dragging politics into it by citing old Resetera drama and claiming everyone who disagrees with you is part of some left-wing cult and then calling for mods to ban them.

Anyway this is the last response I'm gonna make to this guy.
You luddites really can't stop seething and crying huh? Just move on, Ai is here to stay if you like it or not. Attacking me won't change that fact, you lost.

Anyway next rage bait I'll just ignore, the anti Ai crusade is just getting sad now.
 
You luddites really can't stop seething and crying huh? Just move on, Ai is here to stay if you like it or not. Attacking me won't change that fact, you lost.

Anyway next rage bait I'll just ignore, the anti Ai crusade is just getting sad now.
Like I said, to scared to post on 4Chan, you already said you were going to ignore this thread and your ego couldn't stand it lol
 

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