Which game do you think was more groundbreaking? Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of time?

[sandogma sandogma]

While Ocarina of Time is the superior game, it is only because it expands on the foundations that Mario 64 laid out as a 3D adventure game.

In other words, Mario 64 walked so Ocarina of Time could run auto jump.

 

[petran79]

Can someone who uses the term "wonder" in relation to 3D Zelda please explain it to me? Every time one comes out, people try and wax poetically about the sense of wonder. Do you not also feel this in every other 3D game with big explorable spaces? I could maybe see it if it was your first 3D game ever, and newer entries remind you of that time. But it's like, it's a zelda? You know what to expect thematically. Do you walk out in Skyrim and have a sense of wonder? Hello Kitty Roller Rescue?

Even prior to Zelda there was Daggerfall with a huge map and thousands of locations

 

[bjork]

Even prior to Zelda there was Daggerfall with a huge map and thousands of locations

That's what I mean. People were even like this with BotW when Nintendo was doing their press tour like, "see that mountain? you can go there!" like it wasn't extremely old hat by that point. But people were still like, "the scope of the world is so magnificent, it's like nothing the world has ever seen" or whatever.

 

[Mago]

That's what I mean. People were even like this with BotW when Nintendo was doing their press tour like, "see that mountain? you can go there!" like it wasn't extremely old hat by that point. But people were still like, "the scope of the world is so magnificent, it's like nothing the world has ever seen" or whatever.

A lot of Zelda fans probably didnt know about Daggerfall or much about pc gaming tbf.

 

[bjork]

A lot of Zelda fans probably didnt know about Daggerfall or much about pc gaming tbf.

Like I said, I could see it for referring to your first game like that. But 30 years on? It just feels like an empty phrase yet it seems to only be reserved for Zelda every time a new one comes out. Idk. It's not important, it just has always bugged me, like... go outside if you want a sense of wonder. See that mountain irl? You can go there!

 

[sandogma sandogma]

Like I said, I could see it for referring to your first game like that. But 30 years on? It just feels like an empty phrase yet it seems to only be reserved for Zelda every time a new one comes out. Idk. It's not important, it just has always bugged me, like... go outside if you want a sense of wonder. See that mountain irl? You can go there!

People can still have a sense of wonder. No one is making that sensation exclusive to Zelda games and that is 100% your personal interpretation. It would seem more like you're just jaded at this point. Which I can understand if you've played a lot of adventure games and no longer get that feeling.
But don't let peoples excitement for things trigger you in a negative way. Its a bad outlook in life that will do nothing for you other than make you bitter.

 

[bjork]

People can still have a sense of wonder. No one is making that sensation exclusive to Zelda games and that is 100% your personal interpretation. It would seem more like you're just jaded at this point. Which I can understand if you've played a lot of adventure games and no longer get that feeling.
But don't let peoples excitement for things trigger you in a negative way. Its a bad outlook in life that will do nothing for you other than make you bitter.

I'm not saying you can't or that people shouldn't. I'm saying that literal decades of seeing Zelda somehow put on a pedestal makes me wonder why, because I don't see it. No one can seem to articulate it. But they sure can make some leaps like you did here.
But don't let people's posts about things trigger you to post armchair psychology. It's a bad outlook that will do nothing for you other than make your post seem condescending.

 

[Tonberry]

I’d say they’re about equal. In my opinion it mostly comes down to how they handled (and eased players into) 3D cameras compared to most contemporaries.

Mario 64 for being among the first non-demo products that highlight total true 3D movement in general, which is kind of nebulous but very important. The environments being non-linear playgrounds help showcase the technology better than, for example, Crash Bandicoot, which still very much has full 3D movement but it is still totally on rails. That sense of ”freedom” is an important distinguisher.

In 1998 people were already way more used to 3D environments being navigable, but every single 3D game ever made that enables the camera to seamlessly go from following the player to focusing on specific items in the game world with a togglable lock-on mode can be specifically traced back to Ocarina.

But yes like others already said, Mario being so ”fluid” compared to everything else at the time probably wins.

 

[Bomberman]

OoT. Super Mario 64 while an amazing game was not the first 3D platformer.

OoT seems higher quality too

 

[Mago]

OoT. Super Mario 64 while an amazing game was not the first 3D platformer.

OoT seems higher quality too

I mean Oot wasn't the first of its kind either though.

 

[bjork]

I mean Oot wasn't the first of its kind either though.

but the sense of wonder though

 

[Bomberman]

I mean Oot wasn't the first of its kind either though.

Didn't it invent Z targeting though? Which was useful for the N64 atleast?

 

[sandogma sandogma]

Didn't it invent Z targeting though? Which was useful for the N64 atleast?

Not only was it useful for N64 games, but continues to be used for many 3D third person games to this day! Its such a core component of 3D controls that it doesn't even go by a specific name these days and is just an inherent part of the modern control scheme.

While its true that is an important contribution, I still believe Mario 64 setting the gold standard for moving around in a 3D environment in third person that actually feels good to control to be an even bigger contribution to gaming.

During that time any other 3rd person 3D game that had come out wasn't to achieve that until games later on adopted how it was done in Mario 64. Other 3D games at the time used less effective ways to move around, like tank controls and fixed camera. These other methods of moving in 3D essentially disappeared after Mario 64 except for maybe horror, where the limitations in the controls are used to add tension.

 

[petran79]

During that time any other 3rd person 3D game that had come out wasn't to achieve that until games later on adopted how it was done in Mario 64. Other 3D games at the time used less effective ways to move around, like tank controls and fixed camera. These other methods of moving in 3D essentially disappeared after Mario 64 except for maybe horror, where the limitations in the controls are used to add tension.

One reason games like re1 have more tension than 4 because you can not see the enemies, even if they are right beside you.

Another revolutionary 3d game at that time was MDK, the so called Doom of third person shooters.
Without it there would not be games like Ratchet and Clank

 

[Mago]

Didn't it invent Z targeting though? Which was useful for the N64 atleast?

I guess it invented it in the same way Mario 64 invented the manually controllable third person camera? Lock on targeting existed before Oot, oot just had the most polished and innovative take on it at the time.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 8:36 AM

Not only was it useful for N64 games, but continues to be used for many 3D third person games to this day! Its such a core component of 3D controls that it doesn't even go by a specific name these days and is just an inherent part of the modern control scheme.

While its true that is an important contribution, I still believe Mario 64 setting the gold standard for moving around in a 3D environment in third person that actually feels good to control to be an even bigger contribution to gaming.

During that time any other 3rd person 3D game that had come out wasn't to achieve that until games later on adopted how it was done in Mario 64. Other 3D games at the time used less effective ways to move around, like tank controls and fixed camera. These other methods of moving in 3D essentially disappeared after Mario 64 except for maybe horror, where the limitations in the controls are used to add tension.

I don't think think Tank controls and fixed camera are inherently worse. RE4 and God hand used them years later and are still out and out classics. Also stuff like Tomb Raider was excellently designed around tank controls, and sometimes fixed cameras have aged better than manually controllable ones from that era.

 

[Aerolite]

I remember someone online saying that Super Mario 64 is the video game equivalent of Citizen Kane, and like I've never seen the movie, but I know how much it impacted movies going forward so I think that implies to Mario as well

 

[TinRattler]

Neither are groundbreaking compared to Superman 64

 

[petran79]

I remember someone online saying that Super Mario 64 is the video game equivalent of Citizen Kane, and like I've never seen the movie, but I know how much it impacted movies going forward so I think that implies to Mario as well

this game was released in 1982

The Hobbit (1982 video game) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The game has an innovative text-based physics system, developed by Veronika Megler. Objects, including the characters in the game, have a calculated size, weight, and solidity. Objects can be placed inside other objects, attached together with rope and damaged or broken. If the main character is sitting in a barrel and this barrel is then picked up and thrown through a trapdoor, the player would go through.

Unlike other works of interactive fiction, the game is also in real time, insofar as a period of idleness causes the "WAIT" command to be automatically invoked and the possibility of events occurring as a result. This can be suppressed by entering the "PAUSE" command, which stops all events until a key is pressed.

The game has a cast of non-player characters (NPCs) entirely independent of the player and bound to precisely the same game rules. They have loyalties, strengths, and personalities that affect their behaviour and cannot always be predicted. The character of Gandalf, for example, would roam freely around the game world (some fifty locations), picking up objects, getting into fights and being captured.

The volatility of the characters, coupled with the rich physics and impossible-to-predict fighting system, enabled the game to be played in many different ways, though this would also lead to problems (such as an important character being killed early on). There are numerous possible solutions and with hindsight, the game might be regarded as one of the first examples of emergent gameplay.