"Turn based is outdated"

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

Kingdom Hearts 1 is one of the best action RPGs I've ever played. Secret of Mana/Secret of Mana 2 has a similar system and the new FF7 Remake is somewhat similar.

 

[Kamako]

Kingdom Hearts 1 is one of the best action RPGs I've ever played. Secret of Mana/Secret of Mana 2 has a similar system and the new FF7 Remake is somewhat similar.

Have you played Kingdom Hearts 2?

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

Have you played Kingdom Hearts 2?

Yeah. I still think KH 1 is better.

 

[Kamako]

Yeah. I still think KH 1 is better.

The Colosseum and the Sephiroth fight are way better in KH1, and the theme for Traverse Town is beautiful, but I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is one of the finest games of its console generation, and one of the greatest games ever made.
I'm glad you've played it. :)

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

The Colosseum and the Sephiroth fight are way better in KH1, and the theme for Traverse Town is beautiful, but I think Kingdom Hearts 2 is one of the finest games of its console generation, and one of the best games ever made.
I'm glad you've played it. :)

Yeah, that's my main reasoning. Also the story got really wacky in KH2. Roxas just sucks arse and Sora got really weird. Sometimes simplicity is an advantage.

 

[Kamako]

Yeah, that's my main reasoning. Also the story got really wacky in KH2. Roxas just sucks arse and Sora got really weird.

I actually really like Roxas as a tragic character and tough boss, he's grown on me over time.

I played Kingdom Hearts 2 first, and I agree, the plot is bananas, but I still enjoy it.

The speed and depth of the combat, the level design, mini-game variety, the keyblades, the outfits, the difficulty, all the superbosses and sheer amount of excellent content packed into KHIIFM especially, just wow.

 

[The Missing Link]

Outdated doesn't always mean bad, and just because something may be new doesn't always make it good either.

Their are plenty of games with old mechanics that play just fine, and are still great. If I let something like that stop me from playing a video game, who knows how many great gems I'd miss. Heck I just started FF8 a few weeks ago, thinking about chrono trigger next.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Watch the people who say "Turn based games are too slow" put any FF game on the highest active speed and get rolled over in seconds.

Aside from Pokémon Red, couldn't stand turn-based games as a kid, now I love 'em.
Took me many hours/attempts at playing turn-based games to "get it" though...most people simply cannot or will not put in that sort of effort.

That being said, I still can't say I'm that enamoured by Real-Time with Pause combat...

Tbh I don't get why more games don't just implement Kingdom Hearts combat. It's the best of both worlds.

Wait I thought everyone put the battles on pretty high speeds

 

[Daemon_diles]

Haven't really heard people saying this recently.
It feels like it was constant back in the day, now it's very rare, or maybe I just don't frequent the places where people don't like turn based games.

 

[Ikagura]

I wouldn't mind seeing an ARPG spinoff for Dragon Quest and Pokémon but only make that for non mainline entries.

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

Haven't really heard people saying this recently.
It feels like it was constant back in the day, now it's very rare, or maybe I just don't frequent the places where people don't like turn based games.

Go to a Final Fantasy forum and whenever someone asks for a return to turn based gameplay for the series, inevitably some genius will suggest that.

 

[Pearly]

Considered outdated by whom though? Turn based games were fine, the companies making them were doing a poor job at innovation during the PS3 era. They fell into a creative rut and kept redoing the same thing over and over. FFXIII actually had some interesting turn based mechanics but the story and level design were what sunk the game in the eyes of many of the fans.

I suppose it was the critics of the time, and they genuinely had the ability to tank a game with poor publicity during that era. These days we know better.

It was during that time that Keiji Inafune said that Japanese game development was way behind the west, seemingly because he loved western game design, leading to outsourcing many capcom properties to western companies, also the head of bioware and the lead designer on fez also dunked on Japanese game design, especially turn based games.

Seemed there was an anti-asian/xenophobic aspect to it, I looked it up not too long ago and it genuinely just seemed "asian game = bad" as far as western game developers and journalists were concerned. This was during the age of anything that wasn't brown/grey with guns didn't do well. PS3/360 Era.

As for whom considered it outdated? you have a point, I didn't, no one I knew considered it outdated either. I'm now just thinking it was a narrative in a journalist echo chamber that thought everything western RPG king Bioware made was gold, now bioware is a joke and square and atlus hang their heads high.

The "hate" for turn based games showed up around that time as many of the best selling games before this, on two console generations, were turn based and genuinely it was just blanketly referred to as archaic asian game design and turn based RPG's were a staple of it.

Even the term JRPG is used to almost differentiate these games for some reason and make it seem lesser to some. It's just an RPG from the east.

I loved FF13, especially lightning returns, and the story and characters don't get much fleshed out in that first game but I still have soft spot for it.

 

[cjl8336]

the GC Paper Mario I think did a good job with their turn based system - I like being able to defend in real-time, and the danger badge setup makes it fun to steamroll everything with 1 HP while adding a challenge of mastering the super guard

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

Maybe it's not simply the problem with turn based combat but how combat is initiated? When I take a look at my steam library a look under turn based I see a majority of FE clones or FFT clones (ignoring my deckbuilders) when I look at my indie titles, no random battle encounters with maybe Chained Echoes as an outlier. Combat is combat but only when permitted after a story beat is met and go to next map. Is that boring to some? Yes and if the combat isn't challenging or engaging it's looked down on as just something to halt your story reading time but if the combat is good then you're disappointed that you only get to engage in combat after a story beat with little room for more chances of combat and the game is over before you know it or you get your ass handed to you and reinforces you to play again but better when the story throws a boss that you weren't prepared for since combat wasn't extensive enough to prepare you to have tactics meant for that boss.

This in itself is a show of bad game design not turn based combat and with an indie title that's easier to see than with a series that has a lot more riding on it than profitability. And if studios were more inclined to make more softball titles with smaller budgets than grand movie studio weeping block buster rivals to experiment then I don't think turn based combat wouldn't have taken such a long hiatus from mainline titles.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

Mind if I revive this? I got thoughts on Romancing SaGa 2 Revenge of the Seven (remake). I think it's new battle system is the best of both worlds of old turn based and what they're been experimenting with Scarlet and Emerald's streamlined combat on a timeline. I believe they found a perfect marriage of the 2 when it comes to presentation and execution.

 

[snes9x]

Yeah, that's my main reasoning. Also the story got really wacky in KH2. Roxas just sucks arse and Sora got really weird. Sometimes simplicity is an advantage.

I appreciate KH as a surprisingly well-done crossover and KH2 as schizo Nomura brainrot.

 

[TheWanderer]

No

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

If a FF2 or FF6 remake happens i would like action based or turn based , like hear me out both would be cool but these games are made to have a group of people so I think turn based would server better

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

Mind if I revive this? I got thoughts on Romancing SaGa 2 Revenge of the Seven (remake). I think it's new battle system is the best of both worlds of old turn based and what they're been experimenting with Scarlet and Emerald's streamlined combat on a timeline. I believe they found a perfect marriage of the 2 when it comes to presentation and execution.

I'm waiting for it go on sale one of these days to get it. I keep hearing good things about it

 

[Tonberry]

As I've been replaying FF10 the past week I'm still so wowed with the CTB system it uses. It just feels so insanely tight, and it's really fun to be able to manipulate the turn order so much.

 

[Elwiwi]

I like turns, but only real turns not that thing FF does

 

[nattybohman]

I can't say which I like more. There are so many great ones in each genre. Getting rid of turn-based games would be a huge loss in my opinion. There's USUALLY more strategy involved in turn-based games. Maybe some of the newer gamers can't wrap their head around the more complex TB games.

 

[ThatOneLum]

I'm a huge fan of turn-based RPGs cus I like having time to plan and think. Its why FFX is my top one.

In the same way that older graphical styles are still a thing in modern games, turn-based RPG gameplay is a style, not a technological advancement level, and it'll always have its supporters/fans.

I think they fell out of favour with Square et al cus generally action-based gameplay is more universal, and big companies aim lowest common denominator to make more money.

 

[Graw]

Mind if I revive this? I got thoughts on Romancing SaGa 2 Revenge of the Seven (remake). I think it's new battle system is the best of both worlds of old turn based and what they're been experimenting with Scarlet and Emerald's streamlined combat on a timeline. I believe they found a perfect marriage of the 2 when it comes to presentation and execution.

I haven't tried the new romancing saga 2 remake yet but does it use the shared BP pool system from SSG and Emerald Beyond? I like the timeline system, it's a good visual aid for the combo system, but I prefer the individual BP pools of the earlier SaGa games. I think Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song has my favourite combat system out of the SaGa games. You can tell they took a lot of ideas from Minstrel Song for SSG and Emerald Beyond's combat system but with Minstrel Song you have a lot more room to experiment and try different things. Minstrel Song seems to use similar mechanics to the timeline system behind the scenes. Different skills and formations do affect the turn order and your combo chances, you just don't have a visual guide with the information.

 

[Moreno909]

I prefer action games and don't enjoy or play many turn-based games, but I do value them and I make a big exception for Darkest Dungeon, which is one of my favorite turn-based games.
A turn-based game is much better for adapting more complex or RPG mechanics; such as various statuses, buffs, items and the possibility of controlling more than one character.

Playing Skyrim, I started putting in mods that affect the gameplay and add more de/buffs to the game, there's even a mod that adds a Stress system like in DD.
Although it's cool, it ends up being too much for you to manage in real time, in comparison, in DD the gameplay system is very deep, and as it's divided into turns you can manage all the systems well once you get to know them.

I've played Pokémon Online in the browser, and the battles with other players were also a lot of fun. As I have the pirated version of DD, I've never played the online mode of that game, but I imagine it must be fun too.