The true villain of FF7

[Yuki Senoue]

Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.

This is something I agree wholeheartedly. FFVII OG story is great - it just need a better English localization. No need for the Compilation at all.

I respect Nomura and Nojima a lot, but the Compilation is completelly unnecessary.

 

[Cantarella]

What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Press Clippings

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]

I don't really attach much weight to a flippant statement made ten years after the fact. Feel similarly about statements from most of these guys.

The smoke plumes disappearing again is funny though.

 

[Patches]

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Press Clippings

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]

I don't really attach much weight to a flippant statement made ten years after the fact. Feel similarly about statements from most of these guys.

The smoke plumes disappearing again is funny though.

What about the secret ending of dirge of cerberus what is it leading to?

 

[MasterEn]

What about the secret ending of dirge of cerberus what is it leading to?

i don't think anyone knows. it's just kind of there. i'll take a look around on google and see if someone has found or figured out anything about it.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 3:50 AM

i did some checking. there's not much out there about the secret ending of dirge of cerberus. i think everyone gave up on there being more to it after a few years passed by.
i found this reddit post, where some people chat about the ending and have some theories about it. not much else though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/vmqeyt/im_surprised_that_i_havent_come_across_many/

 

[Yuki Senoue]

not sure how the world of ffx looks like ff7. i'll look at some maps. seems weird to confuse the maps of your company's games, but it could happen.

Nojima NEVER said it was the same world. He said "After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."


And you know, it is not something that important. It is just Nojima having some fun with two games he worked on.

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Press Clippings

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]

Thanks! And yes, Kitase is full of shit here 8D

 

[MasterEn]

Nojima NEVER said it was the same world. He said "After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."


And you know, it is not something that important. It is just Nojima having some fun with two games he worked on.

i think he more or less got mixed up on the games. 7, 8, 9, tactics and 10 were all in development at the same time. i read the wiki link that you left and it reminded me of that when i was reading it.

at least, that's what i think might have happened. working on 2 or more games directly might get some one mixed up a bit on each game specifically.

 

[MetalSharkPlayer]

The true antagonist is obviously Nomura and Square Enix for promising a remake 10 years ago and then rug-pulling us via "it's actually an ARPG sequel with time travel shit lol" and we are still waiting for them to finish it.

This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.

 

[MasterEn]

This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.

they straight up said several years ago that they would only remake ff7 if they really needed the money.
they needed the money apparently.

 

[Strategist's iconStrategist]

they straight up said several years ago that they would only remake ff7 if they really needed the money.
they needed the money apparently.

Square Enix has some serious mismanagement problems. All their games cost a bajilion dollars to make and are disappointments even when they sell like 3+ million copies. They really need a clean sweep of management and to remove Nomura from the director chair. If they don't do that, they'll continue to stagnate.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

The true vilain in any RPG is always the main caracter.

Murdering psychopath committing ecocide on anything living on the world map. Absorbing experience from killing everything like a vampire leech.

 

[Caped_Plumber]

lots of interesting ideas going around…

Hojo is evil for sure or at least he severely lacks any sense of empathy/ morality … but the arch nemesis?… probably not

It’s an interesting one, and to the people suggesting that Jenova is puppeteering the corpse of a dead Sephiroth … I would ask: to what end? Why would she do that?

In my view, Sephiroth isn’t just able to resist Jenova’s influence, but rather he is the opposite of a puppet. His will is greater than Jenova and she becomes subordinate to his plans. He’s nothing like the other experiments. He the polar opposite of those mindless puppets that aimlessly wander towards the reunion…

Having said that, Jenova is described as a “calamity from the skies” who caused destruction and was feeding off of the planet… Sephiroth seeks to damage and use the planet as a vessel to explore the cosmos…

Sephiroth is certainly the dominant force … it is his sheer will coupled with his supernatural abilities which enable him to regenerate in the northen crater… to me, that’s got to be Sephiroth. Jenova has no reason to regenerate his image. That is Sephiroth.

But is the dominate force always the one in control? What about influence, suggestion, manipulation or soft power? Whose goals does Sephiroth adopt and therefore who is truly calling the shots?

It’s not so clear cut when you think of it that way…

The avalanche stuff - yes they’re wrong. And it’s a story telling device - these people are desperate. Avalanche regularly sympathise with the plight of those living under the shadow of midgard’s giant floating city. We aren’t supposed to agree with everything avalanche does… and eventually they abandon those aims and if I’m not mistaken there is an air of regret and emptiness surrounding the damage they caused… but they move on to the greater mission. To saving the planet from Sephiroth…

Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.

No, the "Sephiroth Copies" did exist in the original game: while "clone" is in fact a misnomer given by the translation, I checked a dump of the japanese script and Hojo uses the expression "Sephiroth Copy" セフィロス・コピー

View attachment 71440


So why does Jenova only starts moving only when Cloud arrives at Shinra Tower?

good question… quite possibly it could sense her own cells in cloud and saw an opening to use cloud and his cohort in order to obtain the black materia and bring it to the northern crater… quite possibly using Sephiroth image to motivate and manipulate cloud… there is a strong suggestion however that it is Sephiroth who is in control. And he is asserting his dominance by showing himself / projecting his own image

 

[deh]

Yeah that's true.

 

[Caped_Plumber]

The true villain is capitalism, since Shinra exploits the planet.
Sephirot as a Shinra SOLDIER, he would technically be an agent of a right-wing, pro-corporate authoritarian regime — although I think his own political philosophy, which led to the Nibelheim incident, is largely apolitical, or at least apathetically complacent with the institution he serves.
Post-Nibelheim? One could argue that Sephiroth would be an anarchist in the broadest, though most extreme, sense of the term, seeking to overthrow the established world order (like Barret), but only as a means to a greater end: proclaiming himself the world's destroyer/god-ruler.
I dropped a bomb and ran away lol.

View attachment 71447

I’ve never considered a comparison or parallel between Barrett and Sephiroth’s ambitions. Interesting

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:40 AM

What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.

Here's the complete interview: https://www.shinraarchaeology.com/resources/article_pdfs/dreamaga_oct03.pdf

That was brilliant thanks for sharing! He forgot to add the smoke … or did he? And I love the fact they had a laugh about it… (Another thing left open for your own interpretation as the player… I love it).

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:50 AM

Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.

Yes! Agree totally. Those aspects of FF7 that are shrouded in mystery and yet somehow so coherently told - it creates such an air of wonder and keeps you on the edge of your seat and always wanting to know more. It’s such a delicate balance of structure, delivery/ execution and storytelling that gives you more than enough to be so invested but only just enough so the element of mystery, awe and wonder remains intact. No other game has done it quite the same as the original FF7.

 

[MasterEn]

lots of interesting ideas going around…

Hojo is evil for sure or at least he severely lacks any sense of empathy/ morality … but the arch nemesis?… probably not

It’s an interesting one, and to the people suggesting that Jenova is puppeteering the corpse of a dead Sephiroth … I would ask: to what end? Why would she do that?

In my view, Sephiroth isn’t just able to resist Jenova’s influence, but rather he is the opposite of a puppet. His will is greater than Jenova and she becomes subordinate to his plans. He’s nothing like the other experiments. He the polar opposite of those mindless puppets that aimlessly wander towards the reunion…

Having said that, Jenova is described as a “calamity from the skies” who caused destruction and was feeding off of the planet… Sephiroth seeks to damage and use the planet as a vessel to explore the cosmos…

Sephiroth is certainly the dominant force … it is his sheer will coupled with his supernatural abilities which enable him to regenerate in the northen crater… to me, that’s got to be Sephiroth. Jenova has no reason to regenerate his image. That is Sephiroth.

But is the dominate force always the one in control? What about influence, suggestion, manipulation or soft power? Whose goals does Sephiroth adopt and therefore who is truly calling the shots?

It’s not so clear cut when you think of it that way…



good question… quite possibly it could sense her own cells in cloud and saw an opening to use cloud and his cohort in order to obtain the black materia and bring it to the northern crater… quite possibly using Sephiroth image to motivate and manipulate cloud… there is a strong suggestion however that it is Sephiroth who is in control. And he is asserting his dominance by showing himself / projecting his own image

when sephiroth's mother was still pregnant with him, dr. hojo injected jenova cells into him. as such, the cells would have most likely merged with his own and became a part of him. to my recollection, no other character in the game is exposed to jenova cells in such a way or is given them so early on like that.
i would say that getting the jonova cells so early on more or less allowed sephiroth to become a half-blood. part human, part jenova; allowing him to have her powers at his command and to get that power boost from being a half-blood.
sephiroth never showed any malicious or malevolent intentions until he spent several days in the shinra mansion and started going down the conspiracy road, so to speak. he was told by hojo that his mother's name is jenova, he finds an alien in a cryo tube called jenova, and reads a massive pile of books that speculate on what her goals and intentions were.
the conclusion that he came to seems to have broken his mind and he basically went insane. not fully but his mind is broken.
in this state, he thinks that its his destiny to carry out jenova's will, whatever he thinks that is.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.

All we know from the original game is that the Black and White Materia exist since, at least, the time when Jenova arrived at the Planet. So, you theory is pretty good, as the duality and cicle of life and death is such an important theme in the game. I like them being artefacts which origins was lost in the sands of time, gives a sense of wonder, of something to which time is meaningless; something which surpasses human knowledge and we maybe will never trully understand.

 

[Cantarella]

Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.

kinda always assumed it was a jenova thing.


Like, Jenova arrived to the planet on a meteorite. That's what formed the northern crater. Jenova is explicitly hostile towards the planet. And there's a materia that was around at least during the time that Jenova was messing around with the Cetra that ALSO just happens to summon a meteor??? That Jenovaroth even seems very interested in using?? (this brings up the interesting question of whether or not it's actually... a meteorite being summoned.

As to how Jenova would learn how to make materia, idk. But given that it knows what its hosts know (and shows some ability to read minds even without absorbing someone or whatever,) it would be possible if the cetra had that knowledge.


Alternately, materia could just form unconsciously. A quirk of the planet's 'biology.' If lightning strikes it enough, all that accumulated memory of lightning forms lightning materia. meteorite impact forms black materia. raccoon population forms steal materia.

 

[_-_AceDragon_-_]

Consider the following statement:

“The true arch-nemesis in Final Fantasy 7 is Jenova. She corrupts Sephiroth, turning him evil. She influences and uses Sephiroth (or his image) to carry out her will - and nearly brings about apocalypse.”

Please discuss!

Final Fantasy 7 is an epic story and presents a layered battle/struggle:

Nature (lifestream & natural born human) Vs Mankind's corruption (shinra & human experiment)

Ancients Vs Jenova

Earthly power Vs Lovecraftian power

Sanity Vs Psychopathy

Reality Vs Illusion

Healing/protection Vs Destruction/murder

Free will Vs Servitude

Loss of self / identity (literally) Vs Narcissism / egocentrism

At the centre of these struggles are (mostly) Cloud and Sephiroth. Yes, Jenova is the calamity and perhaps source of power, but Sephiroth is the one weilding it. He physically regenerates himself to execute his revenge on the world that once revered him as a hero, all the while he's getting revenge on Cloud. Cloud did kill the actual Sephiroth after all.

Sephiroth is the menace of the game and cause of fear in the characters / audience. Even the music (those chosen) says it all. The grandiose execution of Aerith is one of the most sadistic/shocking things I've ever seen. Let's not forget that moments before, he tries to get cloud to execute her first, which would have been even worse. Yes it was to stop her last prayer/spell but the way it was done and his smile, 100% sadistic Sephiroth. The true menace of the game.