Nojima NEVER said it was the same world. He said "After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."
And you know, it is not something that important. It is just Nojima having some fun with two games he worked on.
i think he more or less got mixed up on the games. 7, 8, 9, tactics and 10 were all in development at the same time. i read the wiki link that you left and it reminded me of that when i was reading it.
at least, that's what i think might have happened. working on 2 or more games directly might get some one mixed up a bit on each game specifically.
The true antagonist is obviously Nomura and Square Enix for promising a remake 10 years ago and then rug-pulling us via "it's actually an ARPG sequel with time travel shit lol" and we are still waiting for them to finish it.
This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.
This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.
Square Enix has some serious mismanagement problems. All their games cost a bajilion dollars to make and are disappointments even when they sell like 3+ million copies. They really need a clean sweep of management and to remove Nomura from the director chair. If they don't do that, they'll continue to stagnate.
Hojo is evil for sure or at least he severely lacks any sense of empathy/ morality … but the arch nemesis?… probably not
It’s an interesting one, and to the people suggesting that Jenova is puppeteering the corpse of a dead Sephiroth … I would ask: to what end? Why would she do that?
In my view, Sephiroth isn’t just able to resist Jenova’s influence, but rather he is the opposite of a puppet. His will is greater than Jenova and she becomes subordinate to his plans. He’s nothing like the other experiments. He the polar opposite of those mindless puppets that aimlessly wander towards the reunion…
Having said that, Jenova is described as a “calamity from the skies” who caused destruction and was feeding off of the planet… Sephiroth seeks to damage and use the planet as a vessel to explore the cosmos…
Sephiroth is certainly the dominant force … it is his sheer will coupled with his supernatural abilities which enable him to regenerate in the northen crater… to me, that’s got to be Sephiroth. Jenova has no reason to regenerate his image. That is Sephiroth.
But is the dominate force always the one in control? What about influence, suggestion, manipulation or soft power? Whose goals does Sephiroth adopt and therefore who is truly calling the shots?
It’s not so clear cut when you think of it that way…
The avalanche stuff - yes they’re wrong. And it’s a story telling device - these people are desperate. Avalanche regularly sympathise with the plight of those living under the shadow of midgard’s giant floating city. We aren’t supposed to agree with everything avalanche does… and eventually they abandon those aims and if I’m not mistaken there is an air of regret and emptiness surrounding the damage they caused… but they move on to the greater mission. To saving the planet from Sephiroth…
Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.
No, the "Sephiroth Copies" did exist in the original game: while "clone" is in fact a misnomer given by the translation, I checked a dump of the japanese script and Hojo uses the expression "Sephiroth Copy" セフィロス・コピー
good question… quite possibly it could sense her own cells in cloud and saw an opening to use cloud and his cohort in order to obtain the black materia and bring it to the northern crater… quite possibly using Sephiroth image to motivate and manipulate cloud… there is a strong suggestion however that it is Sephiroth who is in control. And he is asserting his dominance by showing himself / projecting his own image
The true villain is capitalism, since Shinra exploits the planet.
Sephirot as a Shinra SOLDIER, he would technically be an agent of a right-wing, pro-corporate authoritarian regime — although I think his own political philosophy, which led to the Nibelheim incident, is largely apolitical, or at least apathetically complacent with the institution he serves.
Post-Nibelheim? One could argue that Sephiroth would be an anarchist in the broadest, though most extreme, sense of the term, seeking to overthrow the established world order (like Barret), but only as a means to a greater end: proclaiming himself the world's destroyer/god-ruler.
I dropped a bomb and ran away lol.
What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.
That was brilliant thanks for sharing! He forgot to add the smoke … or did he? And I love the fact they had a laugh about it… (Another thing left open for your own interpretation as the player… I love it).
Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.
Yes! Agree totally. Those aspects of FF7 that are shrouded in mystery and yet somehow so coherently told - it creates such an air of wonder and keeps you on the edge of your seat and always wanting to know more. It’s such a delicate balance of structure, delivery/ execution and storytelling that gives you more than enough to be so invested but only just enough so the element of mystery, awe and wonder remains intact. No other game has done it quite the same as the original FF7.
Hojo is evil for sure or at least he severely lacks any sense of empathy/ morality … but the arch nemesis?… probably not
It’s an interesting one, and to the people suggesting that Jenova is puppeteering the corpse of a dead Sephiroth … I would ask: to what end? Why would she do that?
In my view, Sephiroth isn’t just able to resist Jenova’s influence, but rather he is the opposite of a puppet. His will is greater than Jenova and she becomes subordinate to his plans. He’s nothing like the other experiments. He the polar opposite of those mindless puppets that aimlessly wander towards the reunion…
Having said that, Jenova is described as a “calamity from the skies” who caused destruction and was feeding off of the planet… Sephiroth seeks to damage and use the planet as a vessel to explore the cosmos…
Sephiroth is certainly the dominant force … it is his sheer will coupled with his supernatural abilities which enable him to regenerate in the northen crater… to me, that’s got to be Sephiroth. Jenova has no reason to regenerate his image. That is Sephiroth.
But is the dominate force always the one in control? What about influence, suggestion, manipulation or soft power? Whose goals does Sephiroth adopt and therefore who is truly calling the shots?
It’s not so clear cut when you think of it that way…
good question… quite possibly it could sense her own cells in cloud and saw an opening to use cloud and his cohort in order to obtain the black materia and bring it to the northern crater… quite possibly using Sephiroth image to motivate and manipulate cloud… there is a strong suggestion however that it is Sephiroth who is in control. And he is asserting his dominance by showing himself / projecting his own image
when sephiroth's mother was still pregnant with him, dr. hojo injected jenova cells into him. as such, the cells would have most likely merged with his own and became a part of him. to my recollection, no other character in the game is exposed to jenova cells in such a way or is given them so early on like that.
i would say that getting the jonova cells so early on more or less allowed sephiroth to become a half-blood. part human, part jenova; allowing him to have her powers at his command and to get that power boost from being a half-blood.
sephiroth never showed any malicious or malevolent intentions until he spent several days in the shinra mansion and started going down the conspiracy road, so to speak. he was told by hojo that his mother's name is jenova, he finds an alien in a cryo tube called jenova, and reads a massive pile of books that speculate on what her goals and intentions were.
the conclusion that he came to seems to have broken his mind and he basically went insane. not fully but his mind is broken.
in this state, he thinks that its his destiny to carry out jenova's will, whatever he thinks that is.
Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.
All we know from the original game is that the Black and White Materia exist since, at least, the time when Jenova arrived at the Planet. So, you theory is pretty good, as the duality and cicle of life and death is such an important theme in the game. I like them being artefacts which origins was lost in the sands of time, gives a sense of wonder, of something to which time is meaningless; something which surpasses human knowledge and we maybe will never trully understand.
Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.
Like, Jenova arrived to the planet on a meteorite. That's what formed the northern crater. Jenova is explicitly hostile towards the planet. And there's a materia that was around at least during the time that Jenova was messing around with the Cetra that ALSO just happens to summon a meteor??? That Jenovaroth even seems very interested in using?? (this brings up the interesting question of whether or not it's actually... a meteorite being summoned.
As to how Jenova would learn how to make materia, idk. But given that it knows what its hosts know (and shows some ability to read minds even without absorbing someone or whatever,) it would be possible if the cetra had that knowledge.
Alternately, materia could just form unconsciously. A quirk of the planet's 'biology.' If lightning strikes it enough, all that accumulated memory of lightning forms lightning materia. meteorite impact forms black materia. raccoon population forms steal materia.
“The true arch-nemesis in Final Fantasy 7 is Jenova. She corrupts Sephiroth, turning him evil. She influences and uses Sephiroth (or his image) to carry out her will - and nearly brings about apocalypse.”
Final Fantasy 7 is an epic story and presents a layered battle/struggle:
Nature (lifestream & natural born human) Vs Mankind's corruption (shinra & human experiment)
Ancients Vs Jenova
Earthly power Vs Lovecraftian power
Sanity Vs Psychopathy
Reality Vs Illusion
Healing/protection Vs Destruction/murder
Free will Vs Servitude
Loss of self / identity (literally) Vs Narcissism / egocentrism
At the centre of these struggles are (mostly) Cloud and Sephiroth. Yes, Jenova is the calamity and perhaps source of power, but Sephiroth is the one weilding it. He physically regenerates himself to execute his revenge on the world that once revered him as a hero, all the while he's getting revenge on Cloud. Cloud did kill the actual Sephiroth after all.
Sephiroth is the menace of the game and cause of fear in the characters / audience. Even the music (those chosen) says it all. The grandiose execution of Aerith is one of the most sadistic/shocking things I've ever seen. Let's not forget that moments before, he tries to get cloud to execute her first, which would have been even worse. Yes it was to stop her last prayer/spell but the way it was done and his smile, 100% sadistic Sephiroth. The true menace of the game.
It's been too long since I played this game. I remember it as you were part of a terrorist group, rather a religious cult who is crazy enough to believe planet is alive or something, so to prevent people from "hurting the planet" you were destroying power stations because "they ruin environment" because you love nature lol, because of it your terrorist ideology to protect nature is way important than innocent people's lives because every time you destroy a part of the city they die and then you ironically ruin envoirement further so much the solar system got angry and sent meteor to the world just to defeat you but then you also defeated meteor (what?) but in the end you ended whole humanity's progression just because of your evil religious cult. As a result your whole actions make people live like monkeys as they get back to living in caves. The game is more like "Native American Fantasy 7". Do I remember wrong? lololol
FF7's woke idea due to popular idea of "climate change is dangerous so we gotta save the environment" made the game seem cringe and dull, not to mention the whole game seems "wrong". They could also develop a video game about saving animals because back then it was a huge thing to see monkeys on tv as everyone cared about animal's right and whatnot woke BS lol.
The true antagonist has always been Shinra (represented by both Rufus and his father) because they pumped the Mako out of the lifestream and were responsible for Sephiroth's existence.
Despite Jenova enabling the events of the game by destroying the Cetras it was ultimately human's greed that brought up hell and destruction as she could've always been sealed/destroyed by the planet's Weapons or even powerful human armaments since it was Sephiroth that awakened her for good when Cloud raided the Nibelheim reactor.
No Shinra would've meant no Hojo = no Sephiroth = no Jenova awakening = no Meteor coming.
In the same way that I still think that in Phantasy Star Online's story if Dr. Osto hasn't done his experiments most (if not every) of the events of the game wouldn't have happened.
the question posed in the op seemed to essentially be regarding who is 'helming' the Jenova/Sephiroth union. IDK how/why multiple people interpreted it as "who did the most bad things or who started the chain of events that led to a bunch of bad things happening."
which, even if that was the question, the answer is still jenova, because if jenova doesn't more or less extinguish the Cetra several thousand years ago, the history of both humans and cetra winds up totally different with there being a good case for humans having a closer tie to the planet!
the question posed in the op seemed to essentially be regarding who is 'helming' the Jenova/Sephiroth union. IDK how/why multiple people interpreted it as "who did the most bad things or who started the chain of events that led to a bunch of bad things happening."
which, even if that was the question, the answer is still jenova, because if jenova doesn't more or less extinguish the Cetra several thousand years ago, the history of both humans and cetra winds up totally different with there being a good case for humans having a closer tie to the planet!
If you consider humanity as the true villain then characters like Hojo or Shinra are at the top.
I always considered that the main antagonist was Sephiroth until I came across a comment on YouTube suggesting that Jenova was in control. And hence this thread. But yes as someone said, the assumption in the question is that the main antagonist is ether Sephiroth or Jenova.
In response to the comment about humanity vanishing. Look back a little in this thread and someone shared a very interesting video where the creators discuss that there should have been smoke in the final scene to show that humans survived…
As for me, I felt that there is certainly a suggestion that humanity is extinct… cloud and his team won the battle and the war… and after a time, they’re all gone … it’s a bitter sweet ending… humanity goes in a peaceful way. We earned that after saving the planet. It’s in stark contrast to the apocalyptic event of meteor about to hit the planet…
But… If we consider what we actually see: it’s midgar left in ruins and overrun by nature and greenery. That’s it. So we can’t say for sure that humanity is done. The the creators of FF7 suggested that humans survived and are around in the last scene.
What it’s showing for sure is that:
1) midgar, as a city, had failed (for many reasons: social, political, unsustainable).
2) the planet (nature) overcame the threat of shinra and their reactors. Symbolised by the green all over midgar. The planet Overcame the selfish, greedy, self serving and negligent actions of the likes of Hojo and Shinra. Nature overruns midgar.
Humanity doesn’t necessarily vanish. Even though it looks that way and can be interpreted that way. What we see for sure is that midgar failed. And it’s strongly suggested that humanity lives on in connection with nature.
The planet and nature is finally given such the value, respect and reverence it deserves as believed by the wutai elder (and avalanche). And humans live in connection with nature and with a new found respect owing to the planet saving humanity from doom via the white materia and the lessons learnt from abusing the planets natural resources.
The planet wins. Cloud and his team. And avalanche save the planet and humans live in peace.
Post automatically merged:
* cosmo canyon (not wutai)
And the elder bugenhagen
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