It depends on how its used. I liked how crisp the sprites were in the Star Ocean 2 remake. But sometimes they go wild with the post processing effects and the sprites looked washed out or blurry.
The paradigm shift in RPGs
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It depends on how its used. I liked how crisp the sprites were in the Star Ocean 2 remake. But sometimes they go wild with the post processing effects and the sprites looked washed out or blurry.
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Dude, people didn't wanna play turn based games when I started playing them, 35 years ago. The only reason why the new SMT game sold is because SMT fans don't actually play the games, and a built fanbase from almost 40 years of games.
How do you explain Baldur's Gate 3's success then? Apparently you've rationalized Persona's success as their fans don't play the games, which I don't really buy.
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Baldurs gate what again? 3 is it? In built fanbase
Most of the praise I heard about BG3 is about its story and characters, so one can assume it sold based on that, rather than gameplay.
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Bear sex, dungeons and dragons, marketing the game around it's companions and their relationships, the choices, a game that didn't come out broken, parading it's status compared to broken triple A releases.
It's combat, although great; was never it's marketing strong point.
But that is what I said. Use appealing graphics, the right IP and proper marketing and any game can sell well. Turn based isn't a deal breaker for the majority as some people claim.
Larian games have their share of launch bugs, so it definitively wasn't that. lmao.
It definitively has earned praise for its take on turn based gameplay.
Notice that I said "most," not "all." This means that for the most people, the story and characters were BG3's main selling point.
Its another facet of modern design I dislike. Games are bloated and poorly optimized. Good luck playing FF16 on anything short of o powerful computer.
It's not a trend exclusive to RPGs, but affects them more strongly when they trend chase and are developed as action games.
I enjoy the bombastic action direction, wouldn't know anything about optimization, and I sure as hell would give ANYTHING to go back to being a "young one".
Here's a little rant of my own: my favorite games on the SNES is a little action mech shooter called ASSAULT SUITS VALKEN. Caps because the game is rad. Now, when they went on to make a sequel to that game, they turned it into a turn based Front Mission rip-off.
It sucks. It absolutely blows.
Now, I enjoy Front Mission (a game that got remade, along with the sequel, keeping its turn-based roots) but not exclusively because of the turn based system but rather the cool strategies you can pull off (as in, it actually uses the turn based system and terrain mechanics in an interesting way instead of turn based for the sake of being turn based) and also because how cool the world is. And still, my favorite Front Mission is still Gun Hazard, a game that is similar to Valken (made by the same people, even).
In summary, sometimes change is good, sometimes it's not. What's important is, "is that change beneficial to the gameplay experience", "does it feel good", etc. I don't mind change as long as it makes for an enjoyable game.
Rant over.
But, I do understand when someone has attachments to certain games and mechanics.
Hell, my post kinda proves the irony of it all and I'm well aware. Damn it.
Ah, Front Mission, a series I hold very close to my heart, to be honest. I'm really happy the remakes are faithful, for one. Using your own example, I do like Gun Hazard, but if the series became that, I would be outraged; there is no problem with experimenting, but don't expect success by radically changing a formula while offering none of what a franchise was known for previously.
Oh no. Another turn based discourse.
It’s sadly too late for me to engage as I’m about to sleep but I’ll say turn based is based and based turn based games are plentiful which is based
It’s sadly too late for me to engage as I’m about to sleep but I’ll say turn based is based and based turn based games are plentiful which is based
Don't worry, we'll just take turns discussing LOL
Alright you got me LOOOL
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yes i have a potato gaming pc , all i play is indie games or old games.
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I like a compromise: Turn Based but with Action commands to make it more dynamic
I loved what Sea of Stars did with it
I loved what Sea of Stars did with it
I do really like the FF7 reimaginings so far. But I get what you are saying. I've never been huge into Turn-Based games but some of my favorites are the first two Paper Mario games, The South Park games, the new Yakuza games, and Knights of the Old Republic (though those two are the weird ones). I think this trend of redesigning combat playstyles comes from the idea that a lot of Westerners just don't like Turn-Based combat outside of the nerds like us. I don't even think the gameplay style is dying either. Baldur's Gate 3 really surprised me with how many people actually liked it. That doesn't usually happen for games like that. Right now I got my friend into Yakuza, and he's finishing up Judgment. His next game is 7 and idk if he will like it or not. He's a more casual gamer, he plays new stuff he finds interesting and that's it, and his favorite games are all action types. But I'm holding out hope. The combat in Yakuza 7 and 8 are pretty traditional compared to a lot of others that have come out recently and I think he'll get used to it.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of that style either, though I think Octopath is one of the worst RPGs ever made so I'm extra biased against that crock.
I think they solved alot of issues I had with HD2D in the Dragon Quest 3 remake, because the end product looks more like an evolution of the DS remakes, which looks like an evolution of Dragon Quest 7 on Playstation.
I didn't like it at all, either. I initially assumed people were just being nice to it because of nostalgia and a general sense of goodwill for the genre, but then it blew up to become this massive, industry-influencing thing that, like, impacts the art direction of games completely unrelated to it! What did people see in that dumb game!?!?!?!? I never even beat the final boss because I simply refused to grind up every single member of the party.
There are problems both ways. Stick with the same formula over and over and you risk stagnation, rendering sequels pointless from a gameplay perspective and useful only from a monetary perspective.
I'm not saying "turn FM into Armored Core" (which they tried, mind you, and failed miserably), however it's vital that, when presenting changes to something it's important to ask "Is this change good?" and more importantly, "Is this change necessary?"
And for the record, it IS possible to completely change most things while maintaining the spirit of the original. Speaking of Armored Core, the series just did that with AC VI. Hell, that series is an amalgamation of changes and experiments, all 16 games.
As long as you're not doing it cynically to pursue modern trends and have a vision, I think you can do great things.
And a personal opinion regarding RPGs, Final Fantasy in particular: I've seen people complain the new games have become a blend of Kingdom Hearts and DMC.
I welcome that. The more FF becomes KH the more I want to love it. The reason is, I never found the original turn based system of older FF games to be interesting to begin with. I know a lot of people love it, but when compared to other stuff in the genre, well, I'll pass.
Sphere Grid is still rad though, and damn you Square for patenting that shit.
Just a quick post to say that I think it's really a matter of scale. You'll notice that lots and lots of smaller budget RPGs (especially those in the indie scene: Deltarune and Omori por ejemplo) continue to use turn-based combat without anyone raising an eyebrow. But you have to appreciate that as budgets balloon, and get unfathomably big, publisher's need a bigger return on investment and as such aim to appeal to a wider demographic. And I'm sorry to tell you this - but that can include switching to a real-time action combat system. I've no doubt they've done the focus testing.
I will NOT delve in deep into the real issue of the continued path away from abstraction seen across the board in videogames and will instead invite you to simply read Mark J.P. Wolf's piece 'Abstraction in the Video Game' and use some critical thinking to draw connections to the move towards real-time action combat.
I will NOT delve in deep into the real issue of the continued path away from abstraction seen across the board in videogames and will instead invite you to simply read Mark J.P. Wolf's piece 'Abstraction in the Video Game' and use some critical thinking to draw connections to the move towards real-time action combat.
Which is a real shame. As I outlined in my example earlier in the thread, I think it's got one of the most engaging and fun turn-based combat systems ever. The other aspects people praise it for are also great, though.
Yeah, I really don't understand it. It really gives me the vibes of "we made final fantasy 6 in unreal engine!!!1" stuff. Though it's worth noting that almost all games that use the HD2D graphics style are made by the same studio. There was that Star Ocean remake too, which is probably one of the ugliest games I've ever seen in my entire life.
My immersion was completely shattered in Octopath when I started as the merchant/apothecary guy, and after I did his neat intro story I went back to the town to stock up on items, EVERY NPC in the town just gave me generic barks as if they had never known I was there. It felt so hacky and poorly made that it soured my whole experience going forward. It felt completely, utterly soulless.
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