Spell Allocation vs. MP: Which do you prefer?

[RunicOrangejuice]

It depends on the feel of the game for me. Something like Skyrim works fine just having MP/Magicka since the game isn't supposed to be an indepth system or anything, and it makes up for it with the whole 'two seperate hands can have different spells' thing if you're a full magic character. Un-modded magic kind of does suck in Skyrim of course, but that's a seperate issue.

Coming from mainly TTRPG's, there's a lot of different things you can do instead of either just spell slots or MP. I like systems where you have to generate MP somehow either through taking an action or using weaker spells first or something; Anima does this, really makes you feel like you're powering up and going super Saiyan when you get some big boy mana points.

My personal favourite magic system is in Shadowrun. Instead of MP or spell slots, you simply cast spells at your desired power level but you have to deal with 'drain' where you can potentially take damage based on how strong you made the spell. There's more to it than that brief description of course, but it really makes it feel dynamic without being too complicated or restrictive. If you want to go all out and erase something from existence with a manabolt, you best be prepared to make your drain check or give yourself an aneurysm.

I've heard that's a shine of Shadowrun

 

[Octopus]

I've heard that's the shine in Shadowrun.

It's definitely the coolest system in Shadowrun which is impressive as there's so many cool systems in the game. I think it's super smartly designed. Magic is busted strong in the game, but it's always balanced by the fact that you could potentially knock yourself out or worse, and there's always the fact that the second you cast a spell you're immediately target number one; "geek the mage", as the hilarious in-game expression says.

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

It's definitely the coolest system in Shadowrun which is impressive as there's so many cool systems in the game. I think it's super smartly designed. Magic is busted strong in the game, but it's always balanced by the fact that you could potentially knock yourself out or worse, and there's always the fact that the second you cast a spell you're immediately target number one; "geek the mage", as the hilarious in-game expression says.

yes....those pesky mages...LOL

 

[Octopus]

But i discovered items count as 'enchanted' when they have continual light on it, and increases it's value by about 70-80 gold (or on higher end magical gear, maybe hundreds more). So a 2g dagger suddenly bumps up to 82 gold when you add continual light. So you start dumping continual light on EVERYTHING... except you only get like 4-6 castings... so cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest......

Well I know what I'm doing in NWN now, I never knew that. I assume its probably an oversight and not intended.

Something I hate about video game magic systems; when everything is just cooldown based, and there isn't even any MP or whatever tied to it. Why even bother playing a mage at that point?

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Spell allocation means that spells are basically like consumables?

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

It depends on the feel of the game for me. Something like Skyrim works fine just having MP/Magicka since the game isn't supposed to be an indepth system or anything, and it makes up for it with the whole 'two seperate hands can have different spells' thing if you're a full magic character. Un-modded magic kind of does suck in Skyrim of course, but that's a seperate issue.

Coming from mainly TTRPG's, there's a lot of different things you can do instead of either just spell slots or MP. I like systems where you have to generate MP somehow either through taking an action or using weaker spells first or something; Anima does this, really makes you feel like you're powering up and going super Saiyan when you get some big boy mana points.

My personal favourite magic system is in Shadowrun. Instead of MP or spell slots, you simply cast spells at your desired power level but you have to deal with 'drain' where you can potentially take damage based on how strong you made the spell. There's more to it than that brief description of course, but it really makes it feel dynamic without being too complicated or restrictive. If you want to go all out and erase something from existence with a manabolt, you best be prepared to make your drain check or give yourself an aneurysm.

Star Ocean games introduced the design concept of death at 0 MP. Seems like a similar idea. Makes MP conservation more important. Especially with some enemies that can do MP damage.

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

Well I know what I'm doing in NWN now, I never knew that. I assume its probably an oversight and not intended.

Something I hate about video game magic systems; when everything is just cooldown based, and there isn't even any MP or whatever tied to it. Why even bother playing a mage at that point?

cause mages in those games were OP in earlier patches. Devs got hate about it from players, but still wanted a following.

 

[Octopus]

Star Ocean games introduced the design concept of death at 0 MP. Seems like a similar idea. Makes MP conservation more important. Especially with some enemies that can do MP damage.

"MP is HP" is a hell of a concept, I like the vibe.

cause mages in those games were OP in earlier patches. Devs got hate about it from players, but still wanted a following.

Could be, it's something that games sometimes pull that's always bugged me. It's usually in MMO's and stuff like that where I guess the actual combat design is largely secondary. DIvinity 2 is like this, and while I like the game overall I don't like how magic feels mundane as anyone can have it and there's no mechanic or anything tied to it.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Could be, it's something that games sometimes pull that's always bugged me. It's usually in MMO's and stuff like that where I guess the actual combat design is largely secondary. DIvinity 2 is like this, and while I like the game overall I don't like how magic feels mundane as anyone can have it and there's no mechanic or anything tied to it.

Mages in those type of games are more about damage output vs survivability. A bunch of high damage abilities with high cooldowns and lesser armor options and HP versus warriors with better regular attacks and some damage abilites/taunts/crowd control but lesser damage potential.

 

[Octopus]

Spell allocation means that spells are basically like consumables?

Yeah essentially, or something like "you can cast two spells today before you have to take a nap to cast more" type deal.

Mages in those type of games are more about damage output vs survivability. A bunch of high damage abilities with high cooldowns and lesser armor options and HP versus warriors with better regular attacks and some damage abilites/taunts/crowd control but lesser damage potential.

That stuff isn't what annoys me personally about it, its just that I think magic should be a little special in whatever system it's in; having any type of character able to use it like in Divinity kind of just robs the cool factor of magic for me, or that magic is really just the same thing as playing a warrior as everything is just cooldown based in some MMO's. It's entirely an idiosyncrasy I have, I know.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

That stuff isn't what annoys me personally about it, its just that I think magic should be a little special in whatever system it's in; having any type of character able to use it like in Divinity kind of just robs the cool factor of magic for me, or that magic is really just the same thing as playing a warrior as everything is just cooldown based in some MMO's. It's entirely an idiosyncrasy I have, I know.

I get what you are saying. Lorewise, most warrior or rogue abilities aren't considered magic even if they look like it or are just as powerful. Its more of a balancing thing for PvP that every class needs powerful abilities.

Divinity is interesting. The characters are pretty much classless, even if certain combinations of skills have class designations. Every character can put points into a particular magic school. That was probably inspired by Ultima, they had a similar approach for skills.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Yeah essentially, or something like "you can cast two spells today before you have to take a nap to cast more" type deal.

While it may sound interesting on paper I think I'm more used to a standard MP system that many RPG are using nowadays for a wider range of spells to choose from until you deplete your bar like how you need to manage HP (and stamina when the game has one).

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

game sounds wonderful. wonderful post.
Your grasp of language is obviously high. Have you written any articles here?

Post automatically merged: Feb 19, 2025

*tastes good*

Post automatically merged: Feb 19, 2025

sad that "Harm" class magic never came back, as far as I know. Best FF1 spell class.

Ahhh I know what spell you mean its a translation difference I think named light or exorcism in the origins version yeah I ignored it as my white mage zeno was the healer not the damage dealer early on you hardly have money so I don't think anti undead white mage is that viable of a strategy it only applies to undead a type of enemy of many many enemies I don't find such spells quite practical but to say it isn't decent would be lying it has a beautiful animation and can be really good but neglect healing on white mage? Hell no bro.

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

Definitely mp

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

"MP is HP" is a hell of a concept, I like the vibe.

Could be, it's something that games sometimes pull that's always bugged me. It's usually in MMO's and stuff like that where I guess the actual combat design is largely secondary. DIvinity 2 is like this, and while I like the game overall I don't like how magic feels mundane as anyone can have it and there's no mechanic or anything tied to it.

Yep. Accolated game, that everyone seems to overlook the elephant in the room.
Edit: I've read it's supposed to be, and the game in general, DnD-ish. But it's not, really, that I end up quitting early on, despite coming back to it.

Post automatically merged: Feb 19, 2025

Ahhh I know what spell you mean its a translation difference I think named light or exorcism in the origins version yeah I ignored it as my white mage zeno was the healer not the damage dealer early on you hardly have money so I don't think anti undead white mage is that viable of a strategy it only applies to undead a type of enemy of many many enemies I don't find such spells quite practical but to say it isn't decent would be lying it has a beautiful animation and can be really good but neglect healing on white mage? Hell no bro.

I've played w/b mage combo in FF1 a lot. Where it's usefulness lies is, ironically, as support. It definitely can ease b mage spell burden. Fire 2 is useful for undead and weak mobs. Harm 2 while only targeting undead, has been relief beyond measure any time i combo those 2.

Best example I there is, IMO, is Marsh Cave.

 

[Bakuma1997]

Spell variety is good, not only it keeps you updated to keep you of just poisoning mobs, but depending on how you unlock the big spells, you feel rewarded by you grinding, in EO2 alone Hexer is a... no, THE biggest cheese of the game for a reason, Poison, Sleep for those that can't be poisoned, debuffs and a counter spell, but my favorite must be Dampen, a spell that basically makes enemies vulnerable to everything... and i mean ANYTHING, even the Elemental Dragon superbosses becomes sitting ducks

The thing that keeps her from being "MASHATOWIN" class being yhe fact you need some serious point dumping and and planeation to make them wirthy, but once you do... oh la la

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

Definitely mp

Nothing wrong with security.

Post automatically merged: Feb 19, 2025

Spell variety is good, not only it keeps you updated to keep you of just poisoning mobs, but depending on how you unlock the big spells, you feel rewarded by you grinding, in EO2 alone Hexer is a... no, THE biggest cheese of the game for a reason, Poison, Sleep for those that can't be poisoned, debuffs and a counter spell, but my favorite must be Dampen, a spell that basically makes enemies vulnerable to everything... and i mean ANYTHING, even the Elemental Dragon superbosses becomes sitting ducks

The thing that keeps her from being "MASHATOWIN" class being yhe fact you need some serious point dumping and and planeation to make them wirthy, but once you do... oh la la

Oh? I've heard ppl rave about Hexer. Now I know why.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Yep. Accolated game, that everyone seems to overlook the elephant in the room.
Edit: I've read it's supposed to be, and the game in general, DnD-ish. But it's not, really, that I end up quitting early on, despite coming back to it.

Post automatically merged: Feb 19, 2025

I've played w/b mage combo in FF1 a lot. Where it's usefulness lies is, ironically, as support. It definitely can ease b mage spell burden. Fire 2 is useful for undead and weak mobs. Harm 2 while only targeting undead, has been relief beyond measure any time i combo those 2.

Best example I there is, IMO, is Marsh Cave.

Maybe it works with 2 white and 2 black mages but that has to be the worst team ever after 4 white mages

I went 1 warrior (james)
1 thief (carl)
1 black mage (leo)
And the real MVP of the team the white mage zeno the casters were iindeed support the dps and tank were james da warrior and utility was carl the thief for some reason enemies hated carl so much luckily my mages weren't targeted all that often not to add cure is only 9 points each which makes healing a matter of its own I guess in terms of thinking when to use spells FF1 does a good job in making you conserve spells.

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

Maybe it works with 2 white and 2 black mages but that has to be the worst team ever after 4 white mages

I went 1 warrior (james)
1 thief (carl)
1 black mage (leo)
And the real MVP of the team the white mage zeno the casters were iindeed support the dps and tank were james da warrior and utility was carl the thief for some reason enemies hated carl so much luckily my mages weren't targeted all that often not to add cure is only 9 points each which makes healing a matter of its own I guess in terms of thinking when to use spells FF1 does a good job in making you conserve spells.

The true masochist player goes through FF1 original with 4 thieves.
I go with Monk+ R/W/B Mage. Expensive, but finds much dungeon loot to sell. It's fun and I never have trouble.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

The true masochist player goes through FF1 original with 4 thieves.
I go with Monk+ R/W/B Mage. Expensive, but finds much dungeon loot to sell. It's fun and I never have trouble.

I yet to try the well dressed red mage they really got a good fashion style , I also didn't try monk well I think thief should be agility based character but even the warrior surpassed him in agility so sad for thieves man....

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

I yet to try the well dressed red mage they really got a good fashion style , I also didn't try monk well I think thief should be agility based character but even the warrior surpassed him in agility so sad for thieves man....

NES FF1 monk= no wep/no arm. OP end game. More damage than Knight due to multi-attacking fists. (That can crit more often, as it registers on each hit)
Edit: it's been tested and documented.

 

[Den MDM Den MDM]

Just like in FF2, the most broken equipment is none. You are unkillable by the end of the game if you wear nothing lol

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

NES FF1 monk= no wep/no arm. OP end game. More damage than Knight due to multi-attacking fists. (That can crit more often, as it registers on each hit)

Bro I doubt anyone still plays that horrific crappy bugged version that is the first version of Final Fantasy ever....and physical builds seem better than magic based builds in FF1'

 

[RunicOrangejuice]

Just like in FF2, the most broken equipment is none. You are unkillable by the end of the game if you wear nothing lol

Yes. Nothing like 4 naked fisters to fully humble bad guys

Post automatically merged: Feb 20, 2025

Bro I doubt anyone still plays that horrific crappy bugged version that is the first version of Final Fantasy ever....and physical builds seem better than magic based builds in FF1'

FF1 NES is my favorite FF1. I still play it, and love it even with the bugs and jank
Always use party mentioned above.

 

[King Koopa's iconKing Koopa]

Spell allocation. I actually didn't like it when Dark Souls switched to a MP system.