I have no problem with the system as long as magic is strong.
In FF1 magic is weak especially fire bolt and ice it doesn't help their effect is so little and casting them is also limited.
FF8 does it pretty well you can draw magic from both enemies and points or refine it from items and can go up to a 100 per spell for 8 pages of 4 spells each character can have up to 32 spells magic in 8 is pretty strong and I would say better than melee attack until late game early on physical damage is pretty bad , I like magic in 8 some gaming review thing said drawing is tedious but thats BS in my opinion its quick and you never need a ton of each spell I had an average of 12-20 point of spells and never ran out well until adel but that's a story for another time.
If the system is well executed and doesn't handle poorly I don't mind it being that way or that way but if its like FF1 where magic is piss poor lol no just give me normal mana even then FF2 still has weak magic and mana instead of individual spell points kek still sucks so it depends on many factors.
Spell allocation is definitely more challenging which kinda lures me in but I prefer simplicity, so MP is my go-to. Kinda sad that on rereleases of FF1 they changed the system to MP, I prefer things how they originally were.
I have no problem with the system as long as magic is strong.
In FF1 magic is weak especially fire bolt and ice it doesn't help their effect is so little and casting them is also limited.
FF8 does it pretty well you can draw magic from both enemies and points or refine it from items and can go up to a 100 per spell for 8 pages of 4 spells each character can have up to 32 spells magic in 8 is pretty strong and I would say better than melee attack until late game early on physical damage is pretty bad , I like magic in 8 some gaming review thing said drawing is tedious but thats BS in my opinion its quick and you never need a ton of each spell I had an average of 12-20 point of spells and never ran out well until adel but that's a story for another time.
If the system is well executed and doesn't handle poorly I don't mind it being that way or that way but if its like FF1 where magic is piss poor lol no just give me normal mana even then FF2 still has weak magic and mana instead of individual spell points kek still sucks so it depends on many factors.
I have no problem with the system as long as magic is strong.
In FF1 magic is weak especially fire bolt and ice it doesn't help their effect is so little and casting them is also limited.
FF8 does it pretty well you can draw magic from both enemies and points or refine it from items and can go up to a 100 per spell for 8 pages of 4 spells each character can have up to 32 spells magic in 8 is pretty strong and I would say better than melee attack until late game early on physical damage is pretty bad , I like magic in 8 some gaming review thing said drawing is tedious but thats BS in my opinion its quick and you never need a ton of each spell I had an average of 12-20 point of spells and never ran out well until adel but that's a story for another time.
If the system is well executed and doesn't handle poorly I don't mind it being that way or that way but if its like FF1 where magic is piss poor lol no just give me normal mana even then FF2 still has weak magic and mana instead of individual spell points kek still sucks so it depends on many factors.
I think both systems have their appeal, but as for what's ideal... depends entirely on the context, I think.
If you're going with (non-repeatable) bespoke, intricately designed encounters and dungeons I think DnD-style spell point allocation systems - when properly balanced - can not only work, but add an interesting layer of intricate resource management to a game.
(Though I personally wouldn't put FF8 in this category, that game has its own thing going on)
If, however, you're going with a combat system in in which the player has to fight a semi-randomly assembled ongoing onslaught of repeatable battles, I think it's almost necessary to go with a generalized MP system, if only so as to not bog down/constrain the player experience with that same otherwise interesting resource management aspect too much.
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Complete aside, but I recently stumbled across a game that makes masterful use of a spell point allocation system and that I have never seen anyone talk about ever, so I just want to throw it out there:
Knights of the Chalice 2.
It's ugly as sin no matter which of the game's two visual styles you choose, barely has a story and was made by a madman, but it has one of the best DnD-style class systems and some of the best combat encounters I've ever played. Challenging as hell and way too expensive though.
Still, it's worth a look if it sounds interesting to you and you have the stomach for some jank in your games.
Spell allocation is definitely more challenging which kinda lures me in but I prefer simplicity, so MP is my go-to. Kinda sad that on rereleases of FF1 they changed the system to MP, I prefer things how they originally were.
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With you being a FF fan and all, I'm sad you had to sat through FF2. Those days spent in beating it are on a dark spot in my mind now...
The thing that makes me so mad about FF2 is the game could have been on par with 6 in story its gameplay is unique enough but it drops the ball in every turn.
Only time magic works in 1 is fire on undead lol , if only I could find more draw points for aura I got like 20 and then never found it again very entertaining spell to use , square were cooking with the design of magic in 8
I think MP can be interesting as long as it is important to conserve the resource. MP stops being interesting once you reach a certain point in the game when you can buy MP restoration items.
D&D Spell levels or memorization are an improvement over MP in that it makes spells an important resource but it all depends on how easy it is to rest and recover spells. Most D&D games make it easy to rest and recover so it is equally trivialized.
The best magic systems I've seen in games are usually in tactics games. Mages can cast powerful spells but there's an added requirement of time to properly charge up or cast spells. That makes magic more balanced with physical attacks.
I think both systems have their appeal, but as for what's ideal... depends entirely on the context, I think.
If you're going with (non-repeatable) bespoke, intricately designed encounters and dungeons I think DnD-style spell point allocation systems - when properly balanced - can not only work, but add an interesting layer of intricate resource management to a game.
(Though I personally wouldn't put FF8 in this category, that game has its own thing going on)
If, however, you're going with a combat system in in which the player has to fight a semi-randomly assembled ongoing onslaught of repeatable battles, I think it's almost necessary to go with a generalized MP system, if only so as to not bog down/constrain the player experience with that same otherwise interesting resource management aspect too much.
Post automatically merged:
Complete aside, but I recently stumbled across a game that makes masterful use of a spell point allocation system and that I have never seen anyone talk about ever, so I just want to throw it out there:
Knights of the Chalice 2.
It's ugly as sin no matter which of the game's two visual styles you choose, barely has a story and was made by a madman, but it has one of the best DnD-style class systems and some of the best combat encounters I've ever played. Challenging as hell and way too expensive though.
Still, it's worth a look if it sounds interesting to you and you have the stomach for some jank in your games.
The thing that makes me so mad about FF2 is the game could have been on par with 6 in story its gameplay is unique enough but it drops the ball in every turn.
Only time magic works in 1 is fire on undead lol , if only I could find more draw points for aura I got like 20 and then never found it again very entertaining spell to use , square were cooking with the design of magic in 8
The thing that makes me so mad about FF2 is the game could have been on par with 6 in story its gameplay is unique enough but it drops the ball in every turn.
Only time magic works in 1 is fire on undead lol , if only I could find more draw points for aura I got like 20 and then never found it again very entertaining spell to use , square were cooking with the design of magic in 8
Nothing like playing Neverwinter and selecting spells and you are locked into spells and you see you can only select 3 spells you want and 20 spells you don't really care about but need to fill the slots.
Forced diversity of different levels of spells can just result in you blasting through the spells you really care about, then just resting until you can cast them again, i remember that a lot in NWN what is termed 'alpha striking' where you do all your strongest spells/attacks for your fight, then rest and repeat, may have to wait 15 seconds before anything else happens, it's just a waste of time.
Nothing like playing Neverwinter and selecting spells and you are locked into spells and you see you can only select 3 spells you want and 20 spells you don't really care about but need to fill the slots.
Forced diversity of different levels of spells can just result in you blasting through the spells you really care about, then just resting until you can cast them again, i remember that a lot in NWN what is termed 'alpha striking' where you do all your strongest spells/attacks for your fight, then rest and repeat, may have to wait 15 seconds before anything else happens, it's just a waste of time.
Nothing like playing Neverwinter and selecting spells and you are locked into spells and you see you can only select 3 spells you want and 20 spells you don't really care about but need to fill the slots.
Forced diversity of different levels of spells can just result in you blasting through the spells you really care about, then just resting until you can cast them again, i remember that a lot in NWN what is termed 'alpha striking' where you do all your strongest spells/attacks for your fight, then rest and repeat, may have to wait 15 seconds before anything else happens, it's just a waste of time.
Real scenario in NWN1. There's a spell the clerics and wizard/sorcerers learn that adds light to any object you have called Continual light; It's a 2nd level. Not too overpowered or anything.
But i discovered items count as 'enchanted' when they have continual light on it, and increases it's value by about 70-80 gold (or on higher end magical gear, maybe hundreds more). So a 2g dagger suddenly bumps up to 82 gold when you add continual light. So you start dumping continual light on EVERYTHING... except you only get like 4-6 castings... so cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest...... yeah..... Eventually empty your entire inventory and be several hundred gold richer so you can actually buy things...
Real scenario in NWN1. There's a spell the clerics and wizard/sorcerers learn that adds light to any object you have called Continual light; It's a 2nd level. Not too overpowered or anything.
But i discovered items count as 'enchanted' when they have continual light on it, and increases it's value by about 70-80 gold (or on higher end magical gear, maybe hundreds more). So a 2g dagger suddenly bumps up to 82 gold when you add continual light. So you start dumping continual light on everything... except you only get like 4-6 castings... so cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest, cast 6 times, rest...... yeah..... Eventually empty your entire inventory and be several hundred gold richer so you can actually buy things...
I really like the idea of spell allocation. IIt's a satisfying resource management kinda challenge that can keep a dry turn based system a little more engaging.
Thiis might not be something people would agree with me on, but I love the way Chrono Cross makes you bring a finite loadout of spells and items into combat and you just have that small pool of resources to stretch out over the encounter.
I really like the idea of spell allocation. IIt's a satisfying resource management kinda challenge that can keep a dry turn based system a little more engaging.
Thiis might not be something people would agree with me on, but I love the way Chrono Cross makes you bring a finite loadout of spells and items into combat and you just have that small pool of resources to stretch out over the encounter.
Yeah, the economy is important to these types of games. Getting a lot of gold early on can give the player access to end game gear sooner than expected.
Personally, I think I prefer the spell allocation, since it's not used as often as MP, and I always get a warm fuzzy feeling whenever I see it. But I'd probably think the opposite if MP was the system that was more rare.
Yeah, the economy is important to these types of games. Getting a lot of gold early on can give the player access to end game gear sooner than expected.
it's simply called "harm/ harm2/ harm3" 1st harm: LV 1 white magic spell. Hits all enemies, only effective on undead types. all 3 work as intended.
Edit: Many undead in FF1 dungeons. Hidden Superstar, especially Harm 2.
It depends on the feel of the game for me. Something like Skyrim works fine just having MP/Magicka since the game isn't supposed to be an indepth system or anything, and it makes up for it with the whole 'two seperate hands can have different spells' thing if you're a full magic character. Un-modded magic kind of does suck in Skyrim of course, but that's a seperate issue.
Coming from mainly TTRPG's, there's a lot of different things you can do instead of either just spell slots or MP. I like systems where you have to generate MP somehow either through taking an action or using weaker spells first or something; Anima does this, really makes you feel like you're powering up and going super Saiyan when you get some big boy mana points.
My personal favourite magic system is in Shadowrun. Instead of MP or spell slots, you simply cast spells at your desired power level but you have to deal with 'drain' where you can potentially take damage based on how strong you made the spell. There's more to it than that brief description of course, but it really makes it feel dynamic without being too complicated or restrictive. If you want to go all out and erase something from existence with a manabolt, you best be prepared to make your drain check or give yourself an aneurysm.
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