sonic games tier list

[ThatOneLum]

I don't see how it "makes more sense" to go from a beach to a big city, a casino then right after a canyon, a forest, a haunted castle and finally the high skies. I could find a bit of logic to go from the city to the casino if it's within the same big urban area and the canyon to a forest as a part of the geography of the region but still, there's no real infos about why they went to that haunted mansion to go to the fleet when they saw it from the end of the canyon after defeating the boss.

Although I may salute the "classic feel" of the game with the two acts level structure and the comeback of Special Stages.

Sorry but Eggman has always been his original name, Robotnik is a pure western localisation invention like Mobius.

And to be honest people didn't complain that much about Toadstool slowly turning back to Peach in Mario since 64.

I don't mean the structure of the level themes, I mean the literal level-by-level structure that doesn't have a hub world. The themes are completely messed up, but I think it sort of adds to the overall 'chaos' feeling that the game has. I don't even think it's objectively better, I just like it more lol.

I really just hated the overworld stuff in SA1, which is part of the reason I prefer 2 if I have to play one.

I'm also aware that Eggman was the original name in Japan, but I still think Robotnik is a more fitting name for the character. That said, I also think that Eggman probably sounds a bit better to a Japanese audience.

Robotnik would probably sound like shit to Japanese Sonic fans, but by the same token, I think that Robotnik is a much more appealing name in English, because it sounds a bit more dynamic than Eggman which comes off as a bit bland/descriptive.

 

[KaiserMk7]

doesn't try having the same "Sonic becomes Super Sonic at the last moment to beat the big monster that betrayed Robotnik" kind of story

Clearly you haven't 100%ed the DS version.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I don't mean the structure of the level themes, I mean the literal level-by-level structure that doesn't have a hub world. The themes are completely messed up, but I think it sort of adds to the overall 'chaos' feeling that the game has. I don't even think it's objectively better, I just like it more lol.

I really just hated the overworld stuff in SA1, which is part of the reason I prefer 2 if I have to play one.

I personally think that SA1's hub still made more sense than any others in the franchise. At least because it started as a RPG. Then I don't understand SA2's upgrades since there's no longer any hub to make you progress like in a metroidvania/zelda like.

Sonic Heroes at least has that Classic Sonic vibe so it excuses it a bit better than SA2 having pyramids next to San Francisco if you remember the meme (unless it's actually them travelling to Shamar since in Unleashed that country is right next to Empire City's).

I'm also aware that Eggman was the original name in Japan, but I still think Robotnik is a more fitting name for the character. That said, I also think that Eggman probably sounds a bit better to a Japanese audience.

Robotnik would probably sound like shit to Japanees Sonic fans, but by the same token, I think that Robotnik is a much more appealing name in English, because it sounds a bit more dynamic than Eggman which comes off as a bit bland/descriptive.

Robotnik was also chosen because it sounded vaguely Eastern European and since the cold war was still fresh to the mind of people it would make sense as a villain name.

But then again his full name is Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. Eggman being a surname like Miles "Tails" Prower or Nack "Fang the Sniper" the Weasel (even if he's in fact a jerboa).

It's either a mocking name from Sonic or because he vaguely ressemble an egg with his bald head and ovoid shaped body.

I'm fine with both but they should've kept both like in SA1/2 instead of dropping it starting from Unleashed (I think).

Then again Sonic characters all have names about objects like Sonic because he's fast, Tails because of his two tails, Knuckles because he punches hard and so on (even Rouge was supposed to be named Nail). Amy Rose seemed to be an exception.

Clearly you haven't 100%ed the DS version.

I had but this is a separate version of the game not made by the Sonic Team and I only counted home console releases.

 

[ThatOneLum]

Robotnik was also chosen because it sounded vaguely Eastern European and since the cold war was still fresh to the mind of people it would make sense as a villain name.

But then again his full name is Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik. Eggman being a surname like Miles "Tails" Prower or Nack "Fang the Sniper" the Weasel (even if he's in fact a jerboa).

It's either a mocking name from Sonic or because he vaguely ressemble an egg with his bald head and ovoid shaped body.

I'm fine with both but they should've kept both like in SA1/2 instead of dropping it starting from Unleashed (I think).

Then again Sonic characters all have names about objects like Sonic because he's fast, Tails because of his two tails, Knuckles because he punches hard and so on (even Rouge was supposed to be named Nail). Amy Rose seemed to be an exception.


I had but this is a separate version of the game not made by the Sonic Team and I only counted home console releases.

I do think that keeping both would have been more fun, and as you said, in a way they sort of did. In SA sonic calls him that as an insult, and I assume in the western contiunty, tho clearly at this point he's lent into it.

I also never considered the rest of the names being so literal. When you compare Eggman with Sonic/Knuckles/Tails/Shadow is does start to make way more sense.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I do think that keeping both would have been more fun, and as you said, in a way they sort of did. In SA sonic calls him that as an insult, and I assume in the western contiunty, tho clearly at this point he's lent into it.

SA1 had mostly the Japanese continuity into it but they could've made a hybrid. I mean the planet Sonic lives in could be still called Mobius while still being an alternative version of Earth, our planet (albeit with talking anthropomorphic animals living in the islands).

I also never considered the rest of the names being so literal. When you compare Eggman with Sonic/Knuckles/Tails/Shadow is does start to make way more sense.

Remember that Japanese devs like simple yet effective names:

Pac-Man was named as such because "pac" is the sound of munching.

Jumpman because he spent most of his time jumping in Donkey Kong.

And so on. Sonic is an English word that isn't too hard to remember while still describing him the best and sounding cool.

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

Where's that arcade fighting game that's in the Gems Collection?

Sonic the Fighters is in Peak

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:38 PM

I don't see how it "makes more sense" to go from a beach to a big city, a casino

this part actually makes complete sense. Casinos and cities are often near the beach for maximum profit. It was the case for New Jersey’s Atlantic City in the 1930s.

 

[trickybus]

Honestly the thing that annoys me about the Sonic fanbase is how they change their general opinion all the time. No wonders why Sega doesn't know what to do with Sonic since people will always complain.

I think this is a natural consequence of Sega being unable to successfully diversify Sonic's appeal early on the way Nintendo did with Mario.

If you compare the early history of the two IPs, you'll notice that Sonic's development was hindered by several factors: corporate and developer drama, cancelled games, reworked games due to unavailable tech, and poorly received spin-offs. You'll probably notice that a few of these same factors contributed to the failure of the Sega Saturn.

Mario, on the other hand, had a solid run from the get-go and successfully branched out into puzzle games, crossover games, RPGs, edutainment games, racing games, etc etc. When people look at Mario, they don't think "Hey, look! The plumber that jumps really good!" Mario does everything and he does them pretty well.

Unfortunately, Sonic is stuck being the guy that just runs fast.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I think this is a natural consequence of Sega being unable to successfully diversify Sonic's appeal early on the way Nintendo did with Mario.

If you compare the early history of the two IPs, you'll notice that Sonic's development was hindered by several factors: corporate and developer drama, cancelled games, reworked games due to unavailable tech, and poorly received spin-offs. You'll probably notice that a few of these same factors contributed to the failure of the Sega Saturn.

Mario, on the other hand, had a solid run from the get-go and successfully branched out into puzzle games, crossover games, RPGs, edutainment games, racing games, etc etc. When people look at Mario, they don't think "Hey, look! The plumber that jumps really good!" Mario does everything and he does them pretty well.

Unfortunately, Sonic is stuck being the guy that just runs fast.

Honestly I just think that Sonic is simply not meant to be polyvalent like Mario.

I don't really want Sonic to do anything other than going fast because the other gameplay styles are better suited for different franchises.

Mario is naturally perfect at doing anything other than jumping.

 

[Sunnyside]

We talking structure in Sonic games? How timely, I just came to my own realization the other day about why I don't enjoy most of his modern games. It's the way they do padding.

In Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes you could run through all the levels one after the other if you wanted to. The padding was optional stuff that you could tackle at your leisure after the credits rolled. Extra missions, A ranks, etc. They stopped using this structure after that era of Sonic. Now they pad the games by forcing you to do a bunch of busywork in between the actual fun content. The optional postgame stuff was turned into a roadblock. It ruins the pacing and drags the overall experience down.

Colors stretched its content over too many acts and many of those were just throwaways. Unleashed did the same thing by forcing you to complete bland mini levels and also requiring medals. Generations made you gather keys by doing dumb minigames before you could actually have fun. Don't even get me started on Forces. Here's a hundred uninspired missions ripped from every genre in the book, no rhyme or reason needed.

The major problem is none of this was ever fun. The way they've been structuring Sonic games requires you to put up with a bunch of tedium in between the stuff you actually bought the game to play. So what you end up with is a handful of awesome moments buried under tons and tons of garbage.

I understand that Sega pads these games because Sonic as a concept cannot make for a multiple hour playthrough. You move so fast through areas that you'd need a gigantic budget and a long development cycle to support all the assets needed. However! What they CAN do is move all that tedium back to the end of the game where it belongs.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

In Sonic Adventure 2 and Heroes you could run through all the levels one after the other if you wanted to. The padding was optional stuff that you could tackle at your leisure after the credits rolled. Extra missions, A ranks, etc. They stopped using this structure after that era of Sonic. Now they pad the games by forcing you to do a bunch of busywork in between the actual fun content. The optional postgame stuff was turned into a roadblock. It ruins the pacing and drags the overall experience down.

Remember that SA2 also padded the game with the mandatory Treasure Hunting and Mech Shooting alternative gameplay styles to be able to finish the game and that you'll have to do both stories.

But I do agree that starting from Heroes it became obvious that they're doing things to make the game longer, Shadow having you to do all 10 endings for all of the five routes (whereas having to do 5 should've sufficed enough imo) and Sonic 2006's stories felt way longer than Sonic's story in SA1 but time three.

Unleashed had the medals too. Emblems/Collectibles like Mario's games are fine when the games are all about exploring but Sonic is about straightforward gameplay where exploring is a side bonus. Sure, the werehog levels have more time to make you explore to get the remaining medals but still annoying to have to search for them when they're long enough.

Colours is thankfully mostly immune to that outside of the later three acts of each worlds but I think they're short enough to not feel too tedious. I still wish the remasters gave us the intended two big acts that the Wii couldn't handle back in 2010 so it would've felt more like properly long levels.

Generations' three missions to open the boss gate was a mistake yet felt less tedious than most other game's forced side content, I think most of the missions are fine if you chose the right ones.

Forces on the other hand barely has any padding yet the levels were too short for their own good so that's the polar opposite problem.

The Sonic Team think that games have to be longer to be good when I'm sure that replay value could be Sonic's biggest strength.

I mean the Kirby games often can be done in an afternoon yet their respective extra content are what made them still memorable and enjoyable despite finishing them once.

Frontiers having to get collectibles to talk to a NPC on the map is also quite annoying but at least you can get them easily.

I hope Sega would learn not to do that next game but I got 0 expectations...

Colors stretched its content over too many acts and many of those were just throwaways. Unleashed did the same thing by forcing you to complete bland mini levels and also requiring medals. Generations made you gather keys by doing dumb minigames before you could actually have fun. Don't even get me started on Forces. Here's a hundred uninspired missions ripped from every genre in the book, no rhyme or reason needed.

Sorry but Colours' small acts are still less of a problem than Mech Shooting and Treasure Hunting in SA2.

I don't know if you got nostalgia for SA2 but acting as if Gens and Colours don't have good levels with only Sonic playable balance out the side content compared to SA2's tedious levels that took 2/3rd of the game is just disingenuous at best.

 

[Sunnyside]

Ahhh damn I meant to say Frontiers, not Forces. I always confuse the two of them.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

All those essays just for me to say that Spark the Electric Jester 3 is basically the best actual 3D Sonic game out there. Sorry folks.

 

[KaiserMk7]

Any Tier lists specifically for the contents of the Mega and Gems collections?

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Any Tier lists specifically for the contents of the Mega and Gems collections?

I don't get the low tier for them when the games in them are higher tier.

Maybe because the Gamecube pad sucks for 2D games because of the small D-pad.

Unless you have the Horii Classic Pad for the GC which are like SNES ones.

I used to own one for Nintendo Puzzle Collection.

 

[Sunnyside]

Forces on the other hand barely has any padding yet the levels were too short for their own good so that's the polar opposite problem.

The Sonic Team think that games have to be longer to be good when I'm sure that replay value could be Sonic's biggest strength.

I mean the Kirby games often can be done in an afternoon yet their respective extra content are what made them still memorable and enjoyable despite finishing them once.

Sorry but Colours' small acts are still less of a problem than Mech Shooting and Treasure Hunting in SA2.

I don't know if you got nostalgia for SA2 but acting as if Gens and Colours don't have good levels with only Sonic playable balance out the side content compared to SA2's tedious levels that took 2/3rd of the game is just disingenuous at best.

Sorry, disregard what I said about Forces, I meant Frontiers. I think Frontiers was the most blatant about wasting the player's time. Mandatory pinball? Shmups? Escort missions? Cut all that crap and let me play the game. XD I don't mind not going fast in a Sonic game but you've got to actually put some effort into diversifying the content if you're going to make it mandatory to progress.

Kirby's a great example! Short and sweet but has a few extra things to occupy you once you've finished the main game. Sonic shouldn't be trying to compete with 10+ hour games.

I respectfully disagree about Mech Shooting and Treasure Hunting in SA2. Those stages were generally inoffensive, even enjoyable in parts, and at the very least fit into the game's story. It wasn't just a lazy copy-paste of assets. What I'm trying to say is that those stages felt like Sega actually put some thought into them. And outside of Mad Space they really weren't that bad. Contrast that to "Tile Puzzles" or "Ping Pong with Vector". All of that feels tacked on to meet some arbitrary minimum playtime.

Maybe it would feel better if Sonic Team picked one or two gimmicks and properly fleshed them out. I think I would've been fine with Werehog if the levels didn't drag forever or shove QTEs down your throat at every opportunity.

 

[KaiserMk7]

I respectfully disagree about Mech Shooting and Treasure Hunting in SA2. Those stages were generally inoffensive, even enjoyable in parts, and at the very least fit into the game's story. It wasn't just a lazy copy-paste of assets. What I'm trying to say is that those stages felt like Sega actually put some thought into them. And outside of Mad Space they really weren't that bad. Contrast that to "Tile Puzzles" or "Ping Pong with Vector". All of that feels tacked on to meet some arbitrary minimum playtime.

I love arbitrary completion checklists of collectibles, but Platinum style performance ranking systems are something I want to see less of in games. Give me a generous time trial I only have to successfully finish once for an emblem instead of expecting me to spend hours incrementally improving my every move to get the highest rank mark for a level. Adventure's overworld's biggest downside is its emptiness and lack of meaningful exploration, unless you count director's cut's mission mode. Mastering random minigames just to advance the story does sound awful. At least fishing was a character's entire play style and not just glorified side content inserted into the main quest. Unleashed having collectible gating doesn't sound that bad to me.