(QUESTION) PS1 Image Replacement with CHD (instead of BIN/CUE)

[StevenMcFlyJr StevenMcFlyJr]

Been running this through my head for a couple days now. What's the chances we can help the server storage by replacing all *koff koff* the BIN/CUE *koff koff* with CHD instead?

It would compress about 40% & most PSX/PS1 emulators (if not all these days) can play them.

Just wondering ..................

 

[Sumea]

I would agree this is generally better idea than not. CHD files are nicer to access too, the only downside is real console compatibility, which can be fixed by converting CHD back, which is a lossless process.

 

[Boo Man]

i thought .chd would be better too but i think its best to have them in bin/cue format
even with multiple bin tracks and then just convert them yourself
it easier to burn games to disc like that
and from my experience you can also corrupt the rom if you compress to .chd and then convert back to bin/cue or .iso

 

[Juiceala]

I really do not like chd format, most emulators do not support them and they are not easy to decompress, also not everyone has access to a pc just laying around that is capable of decompressing chd, bin/cue has higher compatibility and many people play on modded consoles (such as xbox or wii) I do however think a single combined bin file replacing the multi bin rips is preferable, I always combine mine and all of my ps1 and sega saturn games are single bin/cue format.

 

[Zerpina]

I agree... the smaller file size would be nice.
Not that PS1 games are really that big anyway, most of us have spare junk drives that could hold most if not all of the PS1 library we want to have anyhow. However, as pointed out, most systems don't read them, and you can destroy the game by converting it to CHD.

I mean, I suppose it could be done with some tweaking and a firmware upgrade to an original system, but in the end, it's kind of pointless.

 

[Boo Man]

I really do not like chd format, most emulators do not support them and they are not easy to decompress, also not everyone has access to a pc just laying around that is capable of decompressing chd, bin/cue has higher compatibility and many people play on modded consoles (such as xbox or on wii) I do however think a single combined bin file replacing the multi bin rips is preferable, I always combine mine and all of my ps1 and sega saturn games are single bin/cue format.

yeah a single bin track would be nice but I'm not sure if you can still burn it to a disc like that
i think they are just best left as original dumps

 

[Zerpina]

yeah a single bin track would be nice but I'm not sure if you can still burn it to a disc like that
i think they are just best left as original dumps

I'm pretty sure it has to read those as separate tracks to load correctly.
I could be wrong, but I do think that's why the format is like that.

 

[Juiceala]

yeah a single bin track would be nice but I'm not sure if you can still burn it to a disc like that
i think they are just best left as original dumps

I used to burn single bin files all the time, I don't recall ever running into issues

 

[Zerpina]

Well, you have to remember that PlayStation 1 discs were built exactly like audio CDs, where different tracks hold different types of data.

 

[contrail_]

Yeah, and then we can convert all our images to .jpg to save space! Great for archival!

Post automatically merged: Friday at 9:16 AM

I also suggest compressing system32 as a 7zip archive...

 

[TruxtonTatsujin]

death to CHD!
I've had some issues with merged bins on PS1 and Saturn ODEs with some music tracks not playing but most of the time it's fine. I think it more so depends HOW the bin files where merged.

 

[Sumea]

Yeah, and then we can convert all our images to .jpg to save space! Great for archival!

Post automatically merged: Friday at 9:16 AM

I also suggest compressing system32 as a 7zip archive...

That is absolutely silly thing to say given CHD's are lossless compression.
"Why should I optimize the PNG file even if it can end up saving 50% of the file size with no quality loss that sounds like converting to JPG."

The only issue with CHD is that it is optimized for emulators, as it uses active compression (accessing "zip" but actually lz4 on the fly, and FLAC)
The downside is that the random access speed to the file also increases as one block read by the storage I/O has higher data density. This is why CHD is mandatory for smoother experience emulating PS1 on N3DS systems or even modded Switch systems.

The only actual downside is that there are old and outdated emulators that not adapted a support for the format while all modern maintained ones do, and to create one and unpack one back to original state you need a cross platform tool that is available for every platform with easy to use BAT and SH files and there is even a web tool for handling CHD's on ANY platform.

Boy it does like people talk about what they do not know about and even getting angry over it.

 

[Juiceala]

The downside is that the random access speed to the file also increases as one block read by the storage I/O has higher data density. This is why CHD is mandatory for smoother experience emulating PS1 on N3DS systems or even modded Switch systems.

Last I checked 3DS runs Eboot format for PS1 never heard of CHD format running on 3DS before, I've converted multiple PS1 games to Eboot then to CIA just fine and they ran on my modded N3DSXL in fact most sprite based games run at full speed and even 3D games are playable albite they run slow.

 

[Jon-Patrick-S]

I think for preservation and future-proofing purposes its best to keep the files as close to the original format as possible. Compressed file types like CHD and RVZ are very convenient to the end users of most modern emulators but as people have already said there are other avenues where they're not compatible, so it's best to keep them in the base format and let the end user decide what to do with it from there. It's not like converting the files yourself is a difficult process if you want it. And there are other sites that offer downloads in that format if you really want them.

 

[mangamannn]

Problem with chd is that people use olddated version of chdman to create chd with have issues (audio in ogg over flac, header incorret, etc)

 

[Sfjeov]

It sounds nice but not so for psp or ps2. Also not nice to Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain on ps1.

 

[SoThankful]

It’s much nicer and safer to use the standard format and do whatever you want with it afterward.

and from my experience you can also corrupt the rom if you compress to .chd and then convert back to bin/cue or .iso

First thing that came to mind.

 

[HYEROS]

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What is 1G1R? 1G1R indicates that you will have all the games available for the system without repetitions and giving preferences for the games in the following order of regions EUR>USA>JAP, also all translations of Japanese games are added so far, eliminating the original and leaving only the translated.
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PS1_US_Arquivista directory listing

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Sega Saturn Translated Games in .CHD format

I recently researched and uploaded all the games that were translated by fans for the Sega Saturn console and converted them to the .chd format. The Download link are : https://mega.nz/folder/4ggw1CrL#IWnY606uToSbVtynGYTPsQ The Games are : Shining Force III Scenario 1,2,3 and Premium Disc Ninpen ...

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[Sunnyside]

Man, now I'm worried I'll run into problems playing my .chd PS2 games. I grabbed a bunch to backup my disc collection and converted all of them to .chd. Deleted the original isos because I could not afford the space. I was under the impression that corruption wasn't an issue.

 

[tonyhoro]

I am against removing (or stop prioritizing) the basic formats of each console, for preservation reasons.

I believe (and this is just my personal opinion) that we should consider the standard user who downloads games to play on the original console as our lowest common denominator.

Formats like CHD, WBFS, and RVZ are indeed space-saving, but they either do not meet the standards used on original hardware (CHD and RVZ) or they can trim content (WBFS).

I think posting both formats might be fine (just like we do with the Dreamcast whenever possible, providing both CDI and GDI), but that wouldn't actually relieve the server. Which, by the way, doesn't seem to be a concern right now, otherwise Spike would have already brought it up with the Curators.



In short, I know that saving disk space is an important concern, but it should not take priority over the proper preservation of the games. And you can also convert CUE/BIN games to CHD if you're inclined to.

 

[SoThankful]

Man, now I'm worried I'll run into problems playing my .chd PS2 games. I grabbed a bunch to backup my disc collection and converted all of them to .chd. Deleted the original isos because I could not afford the space. I was under the impression that corruption wasn't an issue.

Good time to check it out. I think you can do it by checking the MD5 checksum, or just test them on the systems you play them with to be even more sure.

 

[TruxtonTatsujin]

Formats like CHD, WBFS, and RVZ are indeed space-saving, but they either do not meet the standards used on original hardware (CHD and RVZ) or they can trim content (WBFS).

WBFS is needed for USB loader GX, many Wii ISOs exceed the 4GB FAT32 limit.

 

[tonyhoro]

Good time to check it out. I think you can do it by checking the MD5 checksum, or just test them on the systems you play them with to be even more sure.

WBFS is needed for USB loader GX, many Wii ISOs exceed the 4GB FAT32 limit.

Yeah, as I said that in the case of WBFS, it may rip content and make the file not Redump verifiable.

 

[Juiceala]

Yeah, as I said that in the case of WBFS, it may rip content and make the file not Redump verifiable.

I can confirm back in the day I downloaded some games in wbfs that turned out to be corrupt and failed to convert back to iso, it was very rare but it happened, as someone who plays on an actual Wii naturally I converted my games to wbfs but I downloaded them in iso format and converted them myself to try and avoid any issues.

Also I use fat32 format on my usb over wbfs format (yes you could format your usb to wbfs format back then, I was very active in the hacking scene during the wii era) because formatting to wbfs was not only limiting but proved to cause issues.

 

[Sumea]

I believe (and this is just my personal opinion) that we should consider the standard user who downloads games to play on the original console as our lowest common denominator.

I would assumre that firstmost, most RGT users are emulating their old games rather than using original hardware.
Even when I can use original hardware for some systems, I elect to sometimes emulate those too.

But, when it comes down to it, the download size is made mostly the same by packaging to 7z format or even high level zip. Most of the data will compress same amount just usability of it is different. CHD Is using just few different newer than ZIP or 7Z standards (and back in the day likely used something like 7z or other such algorithms) for copression and also lays out the data in manner where accessing it is easy. You can save tons of space by zip or 7z packaging your common 8bit/16bit ROMs and using an emulator that can access inside these archives to temporarily extract the ROM. But in these cases, the ROM is extracted or copied to RAM temporarily which is bit much asked from games released on CD and DVD. Really, originally, CHD was the format to chunk package HDD Dumps of arcade games that used one, like both Killer Instinct games.

I do not care if you want or do not want to use CHD but I do dislike the wild misinformation people have about it. The format is not cause of corruption, it is likely something gone wrong in the pipeline, not the format itself. CHD is not lossy, it is lossless compression of the data and reversible with same tools. And it makes emulator's seek times from the image file faster too, causing less load stutters when storing the game files on slower media like SD card, USB stick or old HDD's. It is a no brainer format to use if emulators you use are compatible (all in retroarch are), and you are emulating. RVZ is more than less the exact same thing for GC/Wii images using zstandard.