Parries...parries everywhere....

[BrawlMan]

Remember a time when parrying in a game was a lot more niche or only appeared in fighting games, DMC type games, or the occasional RPG? It's still not that bad, but it is noticeable when other games are just throwing it in, because either DMC, MGR, or Souls.

We got at least five action games coming out that are gonna have a pair of some kind but those are at least made by season developers.

 

[Elwiwi]

I don't mind parrying if is a good implement mechanic

 

[SamanthaSamantha's icon]

I kinda hated action games when your character COULDN'T parry — felt like you shouldn't be able to survive two minutes into the game without it.

 

[DinoRexMax DinoRexMax]

Imagine is Capcom patented parrying like Warner Bros. patented the nemesis system. Sometimes, a good idea is just a good idea, especially if it's such a minor addition like a defensive parry mechanic. My problem would be it they don't provide a proper block and just force you to resort to only parrying like all the Arkham inspired games.

 

[BrawlMan]

I don't mind parrying if is a good implement mechanic

I kinda hated action games when your character COULDN'T parry — felt like you shouldn't be able to survive two minutes into the game without it.

I know some people on the Internet and social media complained about parries appearing in "too many" action games or just thrown in there. While you have some points, parrying has always been around and resurged in other games at some point or another. Not just because of Sekiro, Dark Souls, Ni-Oh or whatever else afterward did it.

Crash course: parrying or counter attacking was something that usually stayed in fighting games. Parry (Street Fighter 3: Third Strike), Just Defend (Garou: Mark of the Wolves), Alpha Counters (Street Fighter Alpha), Crossover Counters (Marvel vs. Capcom), etc. Obviously, they didn't stay that way, and mechanics such as these found their way into 3D Action games of the Stylish Action variety. Devil May Cry 1 has a simple parry system of either knocking projectiles back or attacking an enemy at the right time to knock them into a stun. DMC3 took this further with the melee parry and Royal Guard being the fighting stance that is 3rd Strike style. Itsuno would perfect this further with DMC4 and DMC5. DmC (2013) went with a more simplified parry mechanic, but could still be challenging, but is the easiest to master of the franchise.

Getting ahead of myself, there plenty of games that did parries before back in the 6th generation of consoles. Hell, even in the 5th generation with certain RPGs or Action RPGs from the Japanese side. When the Stylish Action genre took off or pre-taking off you had games like Ninja Gaiden (2004), God of War (2005), and Onimusha (this game came out before all of those and DMC) have advanced or hidden block/parry mechanics. All of them functioning differently, with GoW (2005) being the easiest to perform by comparison. There were plenty of other games: Bujingai: The Forsaken City, both Otogi games, Samurai Western, and a bunch of mid budget PS2 action games had parry/counter mechanics of their own that worked to varying degrees of success. Even Dynasty Warriors and its various spin-offs have block/parry mechanics since DW3.

Many a God of War clones from the late 6th generation and most of the 7th generation have parry mechanics ripped straight from the Greek GoW era. With the only difference being easier or simpler to pull off compared to the OG. Shaolin Monks, Conan, Wolverine: Uncaged Edition, Darksiders I & II, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 1 & 2, etc. In No More Heroes (2007), Travis has a hidden counter attack called Dark Step that works almost like Bayonetta's Witch Time, though the latter wasn't even close to out yet. Grasshopper and Suda51 would take Dark Stepping further and modified in later sequels or even different action games of theirs.

Bayonetta has a parry, but you need to buy the Moon of Khala in order to use it. Equip and flick the right stick in the direction of the incoming attack. Do a perfect parry, and you get extra witch time. It works like Royal Guard, except it's not a stance and is an item you have to buy with halos.

Now Metal Gear Rising is where the big parry inspiration started. It wasn't immediate, and Platinum were the only kids chasing themselves, copying it. Legend of Korra and Transformers Devastation both say hello from the Platinum mountains! Then Sekiro and Ni-Oh happened. Though Demon Souls and Dark Souls already had unique parry systems of their own. The only thing new Sekiro brought to the table was it being the first to copy Rising's parry and be near identical, while Ni-Oh's parry functioned like an advanced version of Ninja Gaiden's parry.

While it is true there are good amount more of 3D action games with parry/counter mechanics, compared to the past, the trend really hasn't changed too much. The only difference now being is parry mechanics aren't as experimental as they were back in the 6th nor 7th generation. Though that is not a bad thing. I've noticed Western developers tend to mess up making parry mechanics more than Japanese or games developed in Asian territories, but either latter can mess up too. Not every game needs to be a "PARRY OR DIE!" fest, but at the same time, it's not the end of the world when a game has a parry mechanic or an easy to learn skill. If you're not into those, or want a game that does it properly, then go for it. There will always something different and non-parry focuses out in the gaming world.

 

[Xdqwerty Xdqwerty]

I found out about parrying through cuphead and later pizza tower

 

[Blue Buddha]

I think this is a pretty interesting dissertation on the state of modern action game design:

https://rexzakel.wordpress.com/2024...nd-why-im-worried-about-monster-hunter-wilds/

"One thing that many of the recent implementations of perfect timing mechanics share is that they’re overpowered to the point of rendering most other gameplay elements moot. The case of RE3 Remake makes it especially clear. A survival horror game is generally meant to make the player weak compared to its enemies, forcing them to carefully manage their resources and choose which enemies they need to take care of… but why bother with any of that when you can do a perfectly timed dodge to circumvent it all? "

I'm of two minds on the issue in that I think of actual proper parry mechanics as being very short windows lasting only a couple of frames and that let you press advantage during scenarios where you would otherwise have to guard or move out of the way. This version is fine to me because there's a fairly steep execution requirement and trying to abuse the system can easily get a less skilled player killed more often than it will ever help. Even then, this mechanic probably shouldn't be too strong or have advantages other than simply letting the player attack where they otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

The version of the mechanic I see more often in a lot of 2020s titles is closer to something like a counter or a "perfect guard", in which there is a set move with an overly generous, multi-second long counter state that automatically interrupts the enemy if a hitbox makes contact with you. To be blunt, this form of the mechanic is absolute dogshit and flattens gameplay from very early on. The game the guy is discussing here: Monster Hunter Wilds, is a particularly egregious example, with 13 of 14 possible weapon types available having some variation of a counter, a perfect guard, a perfect dodge, or some other timing based defensive mechanic with insanely lenient, seconds-long active frames. Combat in that game is exceptionally homogenous, both between different monster encounters and across the player's arsenal, and the game lacks any real sense of mastery or overcoming adversity as a result.

 

[Ikagura]

Looks like it became the de facto "action game 101" technique to make the combat system seemingly interesting but many missed how to implement it well or they straight up broke the game where you spend most of the time attacking -> parry -> counter-attacking -> rinse and repeat.

Versus fighting games also had their dynamic affected by the "wait the other player to attack to engage a parry" effect where you spend more time expecting a parry than not doing so.

I also found that parrying is either too lenient or not punishing enough for the player to spam it because they would have more chances getting hurt not doing it than missing the parry window.

Not every game needs to be a "PARRY OR DIE!" fest.

Basically, game mechanics should be a tool for the player not the only mean for battle.

I genuinely miss when in games counter-attacking and just hitting the enemy before they hit you was the core game design rather than waiting for the attack... I also miss when "dodging" meant moving away from the attack's radius than spamming dodge rolling because of the generous i-frames.

 

[RageBurner]

Imagine is Capcom patented parrying like Warner Bros. patented the nemesis system. Sometimes, a good idea is just a good idea, especially if it's such a minor addition like a defensive parry mechanic. My problem would be it they don't provide a proper block and just force you to resort to only parrying like all the Arkham inspired games.

That's my angle as well; I don't like when parrying is the only defensive option.

 

[BrawlMan]

The case of RE3 Remake makes it especially clear. A survival horror game is generally meant to make the player weak compared to its enemies, forcing them to carefully manage their resources and choose which enemies they need to take care of… but why bother with any of that when you can do a perfectly timed dodge to circumvent it all? "

RE3R is an action horror game. With emphasis on action by the latter half. The original already did the same thing, except dodging and parrying much more consistent. Jill can only dodge, and Carlos can only punch parry. There are unlockable items you can buy from the game store with points you gained after beating the game from the first time or on multiple clears where you can use your score to buy the items that make dodging and parrying easier.

Short version: RE3R got it right while RE4R improved upon it much further.

 

[lestagio]

Yeah, it sometimes can be annoying when it's shoved in at the last minute. That said, something like Cuphead that actually encourages it in its systems feels great.

And Sekiro... god Sekiro's parry system is magnificent.

 

[Ikagura]

In Sonic Frontiers the parry system is borderline outrageous: You press L+R and as long as you let them pressed you stay in place, ready to strike back without any window nor parry failure state. You can also stay in the air (yes, without even slowly lowering like in Zelda with the air aiming) which makes no sense physically. Even the infamous Werehog gameplay had a more interesting battle system in Unleashed, how could they regress in over a decade?

in Ys Seven Flash Guarding was a newly introduced mechanic (that and dodging but Flash Move was only introduced in the next game) which was semi-hidden as there's no in-game explanation about it (and because L is used for the special attack so it could be confusing for newbies). Failing to do the Flash Guard in time is a guaranteed critical hit against you as punishment. Too bad the next Ys games made it so you could cumulate Flash Guarding with Flash Moving (or vice versa) so you could basically do one while being in the state of the other for maximum damage. At least you can still finish the game without ever doing the guard because you have other ways to avoid damage.

In Phantasy Star Portable 2 there's guarding but it's not mandatory for the game and I don't mind when the series didn't have parry nor dodging which got more prevalent in PSO2. In PSO1 there are ways to increase the attack animation speed which is basically used to hit the enemy before they could hurt you and I think this was a good way to do a "pseudo-parry", same with dodging by moving away from the enemies.

 

[Tsukishima]

I'm tired of it and wish it stayed a niche mechanic. Game design has felt polluted ever since it's widespread implementation that even boss fights and battles in general have stagnated for a very long time and I've never been a fan of "the boss attacks you for thirty minutes in a row with an unrelenting and unabated rhythm that you are forced to either parry or simply ... wait it out." type of design. It's even in Armored Core now ... *sigh*

I don't think I've seen parries in videogames that come close to feeling like that fight against Brad in Sin & Punishment.

I know the parrying is actually ridiculously easy in timing in the game itself, but it felt cool, and that's not something I can say about where they took the mechanic since.

 

[Ikagura]

I don't think I've seen parries in videogames that come close to feeling like that fight against Brad in Sin & Punishment.
View attachment 194589
I know the parrying is actually ridiculously easy in timing in the game itself, but it felt cool, and that's not something I can say about where they took the mechanic since.

Hey, now that you're talking about a Treasure game I just want to say that Alien Soldier had one of the best implementation of a parry system (in 1995 on the Genesis on top of that!) which is mostly about turning projectiles (like energy bullets) into small health item so you could get your life full and unleash a powerful attack when timed well.

I don't understand how they came up with that and why even with indie games nowadays you barely have the same level of detail and gameplay as those games.

The bullet reflection system from Bleed 2 will always feel more cathartic than most parry system I've seen so far

There are some parry mechanic with cues from bosses but most of the time you'll have to wait for the bullets of the right color to come to you and angle them right.

 

[extermist]

I'm more partial to deflecting attacks by timing your own attacks against an enemy's, like older Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry 3, etc.

 

[Ikagura]

I'm more partial to deflecting attacks by timing your own attacks against an enemy's, like older Zelda, Kingdom Hearts, Devil May Cry 3, etc.

I don't fully remember but if you time it well you can deflect arrows in Link's Awakening with a sword swing, right?

 

[extermist]

I don't fully remember but if you time it well you can deflect arrows in Link's Awakening with a sword swing, right?

It's been so long since I last touched that game, but I think so, yes.

 

[moon200218]

 

[Bakuma1997]

I don't mind it, it's fine to have regular defense, but Parry can be fun to master, especially if it gives a neato bonus that prizes timing instead of just mashing "Defend" like actually returning damage or allowing a proper counterattack

*Sighs* if only i was able to pull that

 

[CheesyExplosive]

My training days in soulcalbur 3
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Me choosing yun-soung: en-grade bitch!!!
xianghua:

Five seconds later:

RINGOUT

xianghua: you know im not soung-mina so watch your mouth, just kidding!!!


Anyway i don't mind parrying... heh i just played nioh 3 in February this year.

 

[BrawlMan]

View attachment 194606

Not you, Perry the Platapus....

I don't mind it, it's fine to have regular defense, but Parry can be fun to master, especially if it gives a neato bonus that prizes timing instead of just mashing "Defend" like actually returning damage or allowing a proper counterattack

*Sighs* if only i was able to pull that

I was able to pull off the Goliath parry several times. It wasn't easy, but it didn't take me long to get the hang of it. It's even tougher to do. That said, do whatever makes you feel happy.

Anyway i don't mind parrying... heh i just played nioh 3 in February this year.

What episode was that from? I know it's Justice League Action, but I never saw too many episodes of it.

 

[CheesyExplosive]

What episode was that from? I know it's Justice League Action, but I never saw too many episodes of it.

I'm not a dc/marvel fan so.... in a nutshell... i never watch the whole justice league series, it felt too political and meh...

 

[BrawlMan]

I'm not a dc/marvel fan so.... in a nutshell... i never watch the whole justice league series, it felt too political and meh...

Dude I know, Justice League Action wasn't that political from the few episodes I saw. If you're that afraid of politics that you might as well, just stop watching almost anything or everything. I'm not saying everything politics 24/7, but I don't let something simple like that scare me from a piece of media. You gotta be built of sterner stuff than that to enjoy life. Besides comic books dealt in politics, whether it be superhero stories or not. Comic books had the fight against politicians that wanted them shut down or censored. Glad they did because we wouldn't have these awesome characters and heroes today. There are plenty that still do in the comic industry, even if it's not always apparent or obvious. Not bad, bad for something that was always meant "kids only entertainment". You can make your own choices, but don't always be afraid or upset because a piece of media points out something that's truthful and dangerous and trying to act like it doesn't exist or ignore it.

Though all you've done is made me more curious and check the show out for myself. I do thank you, as it's been a while since I've touched an animated JL show.

 

[CheesyExplosive]

Dude I know, Justice League Action wasn't that political from the few episodes I saw. If you're that afraid of politics that you might as well, just stop watching almost anything or everything. I'm not saying everything politics 24/7, but I don't let something simple like that scare me from a piece of media. You gotta be built of sterner stuff than that to enjoy life. Besides comic books dealt in politics, whether it be superhero stories or not. Comic books had the fight against politicians that wanted them shut down or censored. Glad they did because we wouldn't have these awesome characters and heroes today. There are plenty that still do in the comic industry, even if it's not always apparent or obvious. Not bad, bad for something that was always meant "kids only entertainment". You can make your own choices, but don't always be afraid or upset because a piece of media points out something that's truthful and dangerous and trying to act like it doesn't exist or ignore it.

Though all you've done is made me more curious and check the show out for myself. I do thank you, as it's been a while since I've touched an animated JL show.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
OOOOOOOOOOOKKKAAAAAAAYYYYY then.

I did not say that i was afraid of politics and also don't say "scare" because A.I. will change everything of what you value and turn it into damnation! Also it don't matter if you were built by titanium no one can do shit against corrosive acid. Also im not talking about "comics" im just tell you that i did not felt like watching it because in my case i "felt" like the show itself gave off political energy...

The only show that really gave out something that matters is static shock and shaman king frankly shaman king!!!

Im not ignoring or wishing that it don't exist you can go ahead and watch whatever you want im not stopping you. after all Xfinity olny cost 10$ a month so you do you it's your life not mine.

 

[Noon]

Usually I don’t like mechanics parrying that are a linear reflex, like if there’s no strategic reason to NOT do it. And it feels like I’m just reciting a predetermined sequence if it’s a game that demands it, which is just a matter of rehearsing it a bit. But even if I don’t like those kind I still think there’s a tactile enjoyment of the *PITWING!!* of flicking stuff away *PITWANG!!*

A game that I do like the parrying is Scar Lead Salvation. It’s a Returnal-like bullet hell game, You have an exo gauge that’s divided into 4 segments. You can pick up exo skills (like ice Defense or hp+ with enemy defeat) that equip to the 4 segments, the exo skills get powered up when you have enough exo gauge to fill up their 1/4 segment (there’s also a boost mode that costs 1/4 gauge and boost all 4 skills for a time.) You have a single punch “parry strike” that if you punch bullets it fills the exo gauge, and if you take damage your gauge goes down a lot. I like this parry because there’s strategic layers to it that if you have full exo gauge there’s no need to go parry crazy instead regular dodging and moving, plus the parry strike is non combo-able and doubles as a risky melee attack.