Is there any way to save villains who are irredeemable monsters?

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

I recently discussed this with my friend, and he told me people like Sephiroth, Frank Horrigan or Luca Bright can't be reasoned with and lead back into a good path. Is he right? Can people like Luca or even Ganondorf be turned back into good aligned characters if given a chance?

 

[kbcinharoxa kbcinharoxa]

Griffith would...?

 

[SamanthaSamantha's icon]

I believe so.

No-one is inherently evil, but you'd have to REALLY dedicate yourself to the cause to make a dent on them and their skewed worldview.

Movies and TV shows love to tell us that showing acceptance and compassion to evildoers would soften up and lead them down a righteous path, but that often does little more than signaling and broadcasting to anyone within earshot that you are perfect for victimizing in the future.

You have to talk them out of it, ironically by becoming an overwhelming threat they can't possibly match up against.

If you want peace, prepare yourself for war and all that.

 

[MrJeffy]

Luca's past is tragic but in no way, shape, or form could he be redeemed, he's a pure psychopath.

 

[MasterOfpuppeters964]

Yes, with a gun to their heads.


The only salvation for this type is death.

 

[Anim8rDude Anim8rDude]

Had a similar discussion before.
Nope.

We're talking about antagonists who have been forging their chaotic or warped personalities for years because nobody was able to steer them on the correct path earlier. Or in most cases were simply unable too.
And once they grow up with certain ideals it's already too late. Whether their primary driving force is determination or madness, it doesn't matter, you can't reason with someone who already made up their mind.

If our main heroes had more conviction on slaying these monsters on the spot, we wouldn't be having this problem half the time.
You can't convince me this guy has some good:

 

[Tsukishima]

No, and I don't think they should turn into good-aligned characters.

What I'm about to say probably goes beyond the point of this thread in general, but I like my villains without a single speck of a moral compass because I like to be in awe of how far someone can go when pushed to the absolute limit. It in some parts is inspiring because it can be eye-opening to see them breaking so many conventions to see how 'shackled' the light is in many a universe and can potentially portray a good message to the viewer, to seek that third path.

We also wouldn't be discussing this thread in general were it not for the sheer charisma these kinds of characters have in the first place thanks to their background, their experiences, and the unique path they took.

 

[kbcinharoxa kbcinharoxa]

I believe so.

No-one is inherently evil, but you'd have to REALLY dedicate yourself to the cause to make a dent on them and their skewed worldview.

Movies and TV shows love to tell us that showing acceptance and compassion to evildoers would soften up and lead them down a righteous path, but that often does little more than signaling and broadcasting to anyone within earshot that you are perfect for victimizing in the future.

You have to talk them out of it, ironically by becoming an overwhelming threat they can't possibly match up against.

If you want peace, prepare yourself for war and all that.

owwwn that's a cute way to think.

I want to believe that too now :,v

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

Had a similar discussion before.
Nope.

We're talking about antagonists who have been forging their chaotic or warped personalities for years because nobody was able to steer them on the correct path earlier. Or in most cases were simply unable too.
And once they grow up with certain ideals it's already too late. Whether their primary driving force is determination or madness, it doesn't matter, you can't reason with someone who already made up their mind.

If our main heroes had more conviction on slaying these monsters on the spot, we wouldn't be having this problem half the time.
You can't convince me this guy has some good:

What if you tell him a funny joke

 

[IamtheWalrus]

No.
Because just like in real life, there are just people who are pure evil.
And just like how there are people in real life who are irredeemable, some characters in media are just as equally.
Also, why does the villain need to be redeemable? I've struggled to understand this because at that rate, what's the point of the villain even being irredeemable if they can be redeemed?
That's like wanting Michael Mayers from Halloween to suddenly stop trying to kill Laurie Strode. Or expecting Oroku Saki (The Shredder) in the original Mirage Comics for TMNT to not seek vengeance and kill Hamato Yoshi and his wife then later continue the operations under the Foot Clan.
The reason Puss in Boots: The Last Wish works is because Jack Horner is just pure Irredeemable evil, to where even the Talking Cricket sees him as being beyond redemption or saving.

 

[Psychonara]

Villains who are irredeemable petty pieces of shit are kinda funny.

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

The only language these villains know is violence , so it's simple you talk to them and use arguments that they can understand

Can you reason with a shithead like Sephiroth? Or Kefka? No! You tell me a good old fuck you and stab them in the face

There is no redemption for some people , same goes for Dr William Birkins in RE2 dude created a virus just because he can and proceeds to kill everything that moves even his wife! I'm 100% certain he was a maniac and a complete asshole , can you reason with someone like that? Nope cuz trying to reason with him made things worse

Of course you can't apply the same method for everyone , there is people who understand this way and others who can be persuaded etc but you need to know the person to actually decide on what is effective to use when trying to get them on your side

It even works IRL since defeating an enemy can lead him to join your party speaking with JRPG terms here , like when i had a fight in 5th grade and i became friends with the kid i fought

So no , no redemption for the Emperor from FF2 or even FF6 , no redemption for garland , no redemption for Dalia from Silent Hill 1 , no redemption for Kauffman (i think he deserves what happens to him)

 

[Elwiwi]

Yes I only need some head

 

[kbcinharoxa kbcinharoxa]

Yes I only need some head

Even Elwiwi is redeemable. OMG

 

[Pandaprewmaster325]

Yes I only need some head

Oh for God sake wiwi , you will never be a real villain you are a homosexual man and let me stop there

 

[thumbsdown's iconthumbsdown]

Only if they were Naruto characters... IRL, it takes to the State (police force and the legal/medical system) or another psychopath to deal with the first psychopath and this doesn't lead em to the good path nevertheless.

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

Yes I only need some head

I got this

 

[plaindillo]

I mean no. It's kind of the whole concept of "irredeemable monsters". Theyre villains that have fallen irreverssibly deep into the path theyve carved out, and accept that reality rather than fight it.

There are villains who can reverse their misdeeds. There are even villains that understand theyre too far gone to be redeemed, but have a change of heart at the last moment. But an irredeemable monster is kind of a one way track whether they like it or not.

 

[thumbsdown's iconthumbsdown]

No-one is inherently evil, but you'd have to REALLY dedicate yourself to the cause to make a dent on them and their skewed worldview.

Tho it's rare, there is indeed inherent evil in this world.

 

[MasterOfpuppeters964]

Yes I only need some head

Keyuru is you ?

 

[IamtheWalrus]

View attachment 198760
I got this

Be sure to brush, floss and use mouthwash~

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

I mean cmon guys he can't be THAT evil. Just look at him

 

[Elwiwi]

Oh for God sake wiwi , you will never be a real villain you are a homosexual man and let me stop there

What can I say ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ to some people homosexuality is considered villain

 

[MasterOfpuppeters964]

View attachment 198761
I mean cmon guys he can't be THAT evil. Just look at him

He literally tried to commit harassment....

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

He literally tried to commit harassment....

its the implication of harassment