I think Rule #3/4 needs an update..

[Metroid_Hybrid]

In light of somewhat recent events, and the toxic direction many others forums have gone, may I suggest altering rule #3 slightly?

Basically any & all talk of "LGBTQ+" topics of any stripe (including "gender reassignment" and "transphobia") are effectively a violation of rule #4... as the whole topic is by definition a "political [...] movement [...] regardless of intent."

Look... I, and I'm pretty sure most of us here, really don't care about what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom(s). But to raise any of said topics in open discussion is not only a rather explicit political statement per se, but it's also one that puts the majority of others in a bit of an uncomfortable double-bind. Because on one hand, if it goes unchallenged, then it is given an implicit license to run rampant. But on the other hand, if something IS said in disagreement, then it instantly invites the accusation of "transphobia" (which I think is a total misnomer, but I digress), etc..

Therefore, as an appeal to the very sane policy of keeping politics out our Retro Gaming forum, I'm putting forth a motion for the Mods to affirmatively BAN any & all talk of "LGBTQ+" and any talk of "trans-" ideology writ large to the same standard as any other political/religious discussions..

 

[IyoTheHelpfulWolf]

That's not fair to people who *can* be civil about it without mudslinging. Am I being political if I, as a man, say Astolfo is hot? What if two people civilly discuss whether Bridget's story in Guilty Gear works, where you have to bring up the trans aspect eventually? Where is the line?

 

[Aldia Aldia]

Will this also punish any user who as little as implies having a same sex relationship, even in-context of a thread?

As an example: If I (a guy) had a boyfriend, would I be allowed to mention that I played games with him in a thread about co-op gaming experiences?

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

That's not fair to people who *can* be civil about it without mudslinging. Am I being political if I, as a man, say Astolfo is hot? What if two people civilly discuss whether Bridget's story in Guilty Gear works, where you have to bring up the trans aspect eventually? Where is the line?

Hmm, admittedly Bridget is a bit of an edge case. But I think they (the devs) were wading into politics in more recent installments, since Bridget was originally "just" a Trap character, and is otherwise a victim of abuse (if I remember correctly). However, I've only played through GGX2 two decades ago..

Will this also punish any user who as little as implies having a same sex relationship, even in-context of a thread?

As an example: If I (a guy) had a boyfriend, would I be allowed to mention that I played games with him in a thread about co-op gaming experiences?

I never said anything about sexual orientation..

 

[Aldia Aldia]

I never said anything about sexual orientation..

You forget that LGBT people aren't only activists, but actual people as well. THEY'RE QUEER, IT'S THEIR WHOLE THING.

My point is if this is implemented, users will start reporting queer people just for existing in the forums, even ones that haven't posted anything political whatsoever.

(including "gender reassignment" and "transphobia")

And this is straight up segregation.

---

By the way, I'm sorry about my tone here, I'll remove myself from this topic before I get a warning (not having a good night).

 

[IyoTheHelpfulWolf]

Hmm, Bridget is a bit of an edge case. But I think they (the devs) were wading into politics since Bridget was originally "just" a cross-dresser..

Sometimes you have to touch on stuff like that when discussing a piece of media, or else you seriously limit the depth of discussion that can be had in good faith. If we took the "no politics" rule to its logical extreme, that rules out discussing war when talking about Grave of the Fireflies, discussing the military industrial complex and the media when talking about Metal Gear Solid, discussing class issues when talking about Final Fantasy Tactics, and of course things will grind to a halt the moment discussion of Guilty Gear's story reaches Bridget in Strive. Plus, restricting discussion to such a degree will not deter people who are acting in bad faith and obsessed with the political side more than the media discussion side. They'll just find something else to be annoying about.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Sometimes you have to touch on stuff like that when discussing a piece of media, or else you seriously limit the depth of discussion that can be had in good faith. If we took the "no politics" rule to its logical extreme, that rules out discussing war when talking about Grave of the Fireflies, discussing the military industrial complex and the media when talking about Metal Gear Solid, discussing class issues when talking about Final Fantasy Tactics, and of course things will grind to a halt the moment discussion of Guilty Gear's story reaches Bridget in Strive. Plus, restricting discussion to such a degree will not deter people who are acting in bad faith and obsessed with the political side more than the media discussion side. They'll just find something else to be annoying about.

I understand the concern, but I equally think you get the spirit of what I'm suggesting too..

There's a BIG difference between discussing the content of video game, and dragging in IRL/twitter drama in where it doesn't belong..

 

[ZEGA ZONICZEGA ZONIC's icon]

Just came back on here to say: The rules are just fine as they are.
Now I can leave for today. (I hope.)

 

[Morgan Katarn]

Yes it´s not fair but needed. And that´s sadly how it is every one is punished because of a few morons.

And I have to agree with OP on this rule as every one has a different take on this topic and every one thinks differently,

And honestly I speak from experience this topic causes way to much unnecessary drama just because people have different opinions I seen people in that same community treat each other like shit and they are part of the same group.

Sometimes you have to touch on stuff like that when discussing a piece of media, or else you seriously limit the depth of discussion that can be had in good faith.

Well same thing can be said about Poletics as allot of games and media touch that topic allot as well and it even effects the media in more way like trying to ban game or affecting prices.

My point is if this is implemented, users will start reporting queer people for just existing in the forums

Well just ignores does reports it´s simple as that. Or you make a better report function 1000 of websites manage to do that. I mean think of twitch has so many queer streamer do you think they all get reported every damn day ? and if they are reported they don´t get banned for it.

In fact I seen queer streamer´s break the dang TOS and get away so you think they would get banned for just being queer ??

And I will stat this I been part of the queer for the better of 30 damn years but all of this has become massive issue from both sides and all people do is fight fight and fight. every one so damn angry and hateful even does who say they are so open end loving are damn hate full. allot queer people have told me to end my self because I don´t agree with them on everything.

So will say this out of 30 years experience Im dead sick and tired of people fighting over every little thing when it can be easliy avoided by not bringing it up.

Both sides seams to love to fight and argue and push each other down and for what ??

I know shit loads of people here alrady hate my gust so keep hate me but all these fights and drama over people love and sexual prefrence needs to end from both sides.

This is a video that even works on other things.

How to we get rid of the hate`? stop talking about it. I stop caling your straight and you stop calling me queer I got a name use it Im not the Queer man Morgan katarn Im Morgan Katarn. If you wanna know more about me then we can do that in private.

Quit using labels for everything and just treat each other as humans with the name we have.

 

[Stardust Queen]

What a ridiculous suggestion. Queerness is not a "political movement". Queer existence is not inherently political, and neither are discussions of queerness as a topic. Especially in a forum discussing an art medium, all this amounts to is erasing a vital part of artistic works in discussion, and excluding many users here. It'd be like removing discussion of video game themes as a whole. There's a rule against bigotry and mods capable of enforcing it. If you don't want to discuss it, just... Don't. Leave the threads alone. It's that easy. Just let us exist and be in peace.

 

[IyoTheHelpfulWolf]

I understand the concern, but I equally think you get the spirit of what I'm suggesting too..

There's a BIG difference between discussing the content of video game, and dragging in IRL/twitter drama in where it doesn't belong..

I understand your concern. I just don't think we can make the rule any stricter than it is without doing more harm to good faith discussion than good. Some discussions will spiral and have to be shut down by moderators no matter how strict you make the rules. That's just a natural consequence of having this many people with different ideas and temperaments in one forum. The best we can do is report it to the moderators when it's clear a discussion has become toxic and bad faith, and let calm discussions be. For RGT's faults, it's still far less toxic here than mainstream social media and most subreddits.

Well same thing can be said about Poletics as allot of games and media touch that topic allot as well and it even effects the media in more way like trying to ban game or affecting prices.

I said exactly that by explaining how enforcing the no politics rule too strictly impacts discussion of other media as well and listing examples. I just don't think the benefits of enforcing the rule any stricter than it already is will reduce toxicity nearly enough to offset the restriction of good faith discussion. Dickheads are gonna dickhead. Bigots are gonna bigot. Slactivists are gonna slactivist. It's the moderators' jobs to step in when they do.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Queerness is not a "political movement".

50 years ago "queer" just meant "unusual" or "bizarre." 20~30 years ago, it was a "homophobic" slur. Nowadays it's political statement..

I understand your concern. I just don't think we can make the rule any stricter than it is without doing more harm to good faith discussion than good.

It's not about wanting to make the rules "stricter." But rather, the way that the rule is currently written, it makes the matter sound like a politically neutral topic– when it's clearly anything but..

This is a forum about Retro Video Games; and depending on your definition of "Retro," 90~100% of which were made when 0% of this topic was even in the cultural lexicon.

Much in the same way politics can be talked about respectfully, it's generally not.. I just want the Retro Gaming forum to stay about Retro Gaming..

 

[Morgan Katarn]

I wonder is there not a better solution that does not force use to have a stricter rule.

I know this might sound stupid but im just throwing out ideas.

For example how as a new member some places your not allowed to post until you reach a certain level right ? Can´t one make a section where lgbtq+ discussions can be talked freely amongst does that want to but you need to be a certain level or such like proven you can be trusted to be there with out causing fight or troublle and does that don´t care or wanna talk about it they don´t even need to be there at all they can put in like and option I don´t wanna see this.
A bit like how on Twitch I can chose to not see streamer that talk about drugs or such.

I´m not trying to segregate but maybe make like a more safe space for it that´s not in General chat for all to see ?

All my previews point is not just forbid people to be who they are but just to some what having a more safe space for every one with less drama and less fights because people can´t agree.

As I sated in my personal status earlier " You wanna geek out with other you instead sit there and argue with trade insults" That´s what internet has become and honestly I starting to feel like why the hell do I even have internet when the only people to is HATE HATE HATE HATE.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

I'm curious how many people have reported me for even starting this topic..

I just want to prevent more shit-storms from happening in the future..

 

[Aldia Aldia]

This is a forum about Retro Video Games;

I hate when any of you bring this up because it's actual misinformation.

Do you not see the big blue button named

General Discussion

or the one named

General Gaming Discussion

or even

Forum Games and Chatter

???????

Everything is categorized, no one is making these so feared "LGBT" threads to talk about NES GAMES.

You're free to call out misplaced threads whenever you want, but to say we're JUST a retro gaming forum is twisting the truth for your own interests.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

I hate when any of you bring this up because it's actual misinformation.

Do you not see the big blue button named

or the one named

or even

???????

Everything is categorized, no one is making these so feared "LGBT" threads to talk about NES GAMES.

You're free to call out misplaced threads whenever you want, but to say we're JUST a retro gaming forum is twisting the truth for your own interests.

You really do have hatred in your heart..
Can't we just keep contemporary sexual politics out of forum called:

???

 

[IyoTheHelpfulWolf]

I wonder is there not a better solution that does not force use to have a stricter rule.

I know this might sound stupid but im just throwing out ideas.

For example how as a new member some places your not allowed to post until you reach a certain level right ? Can´t one make a section where lgbtq+ discussions can be talked freely amongst does that want to but you need to be a certain level or such like proven you can be trusted to be there with out causing fight or troublle and does that don´t care or wanna talk about it they don´t even need to be there at all they can put in like and option I don´t wanna see this.
A bit like how on Twitch I can chose to not see streamer that talk about drugs or such.

I´m not trying to segregate but maybe make like a more safe space for it that´s not in General chat for all to see ?

All my previews point is not just forbid people to be who they are but just to some what having a more safe space for every one with less drama and less fights because people can´t agree.

As I sated in my personal status earlier " You wanna geek out with other you instead sit there and argue with trade insults" That´s what internet has become and honestly I starting to feel like why the hell do I even have internet when the only people to is HATE HATE HATE HATE.

A dedicated space with clearance only for users of certain level and standing maybe could work, but that would still require seriously restricting the natural flow of good faith discussion outside of it, as discussion of some media will naturally veer into touchy subjects and being too trigger happy outside of the dedicated space might just piss everyone off more, so now we go back to where we draw the line at. And again, I don't think this will actually deter people acting in bad faith much more than the current rules and enforcement do.

You really do have hatred in your heart..
Can't we just keep contemporary sexual politics out of forum called:
View attachment 196194???

You didn't address Aldia's point at all just then. You just resorted to the same name calling you want to have less of. I'm saying this not to make fun of you but to help. Maybe take a breather and come back to this discussion a little later.

 

[Nebulon_Galaxy]

50 years ago "queer" just meant "unusual" or "bizarre." 20~30 years ago, it was a "homophobic" slur. Nowadays it's political statement..

It's not about wanting to make the rules "stricter." But rather, the way that the rule is currently written, it makes the matter sound like a politically neutral topic– when it's clearly anything but..

This is a forum about Retro Video Games; and depending on your definition of "Retro," 90~100% of which were made when 0% of this topic was even in the cultural lexicon.

Much in the same way politics can be talked about respectfully, it's generally not.. I just want the Retro Gaming forum to stay about Retro Gaming..

Im sorry this is just an incredibly narrow-minded post I baffle at the thought that you want this just about being Retro gaming. Retro gaming could be games from 7th gen as well, or are you one of those individuals who refuse to believe the PS3 isnt retro anymore?

You really do have hatred in your heart..
Can't we just keep contemporary sexual politics out of forum called:
View attachment 196194???

Or you can stay in the RETRO GAMING DISCUSSION section of the site? What's stopping you? This forum has various topics not just about Retro gaming, if you hate LGBT content then stay in your section of the site and never leave? No one is forcing you?

 

[Morgan Katarn]

A dedicated space with clearance only for users of certain level and standing maybe could work, but that would still require seriously restricting the natural flow of good faith discussion outside of it, as discussion of some media will naturally veer into touchy subjects and being too trigger happy outside of the dedicated space might just piss everyone off more, so now we go back to where we draw the line at. And again, I don't think this will actually deter people acting in bad faith much more than the current rules and enforcement do.

You didn't address Aldia's point at all just then. You just resorted to the same name calling you want to have less of. I'm saying this not to make fun of you but to help. Maybe take a breather and come back to this discussion a little later.

Yeag im sorry im just talking shit becuse im just so endlessly tried of all the fights.

I love allot of you guys and im sorry for talking out my ass.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

You didn't address Aldia's point at all just then. You just resorted to the same name calling you want to have less of. I'm saying this not to make fun of you but to help. Maybe take a breather and come back to this discussion a little later.

There wasn't any name calling, thank you very much. Furthermore, the detractors have actually been completely ignoring the points that I've made..

Im sorry this is just an incredibly narrow-minded post I baffle at the thought that you want this just about being Retro gaming. Retro gaming could be games from 7th gen as well, or are you one of those individuals who refuse to believe the PS3 isnt retro anymore?

No, and I explained my reasoning in the thread on the subject..

Or you can stay in the RETRO GAMING DISCUSSION section of the site? What's stopping you? This forum has various topics not just about Retro gaming, if you hate LGBT content then stay in your section of the site and never leave? No one is forcing you?

Why should contemporary sexual politics invade everything?

 

[Aldia Aldia]

You really do have hatred in your heart..
Can't we just keep contemporary sexual politics out of forum called:
View attachment 196194???

Entirely ignored the point I just brought up, but alright.

Let me put in a more civilized manner:

By banning discussion of (example) homophobia, staff will be entirely removing a gay user's any and all capability of self-defense in the forums that doesn't rely on the staff for (say, verbal defense). In the same vein, banning discussion of trans topics in general will straight up disallow actual trans users in here from talking about their own lives in the appropriate spaces for doing so (say, private profile posts, or discussion threads dedicated to talking about one's experiences with something irl).

Being gay or trans or whatever slur you call us under the sheets is not a political statement, it's existence. No one chooses to exist, no one chooses to be born, and no one chooses who they are or how they identify, they're wired that way.

I'm not bisexual because I want to stand out or "make a statement", I'm bisexual because I'm attracted to men and women alike.

 

[Megarockman _1987 Megarockman _1987]

What exactly happened?

 

[Sheepy765]

I don't think it would be wise to have such a damning stance on discussion of such topics due to a handful of people unfamiliar with the concept of civility.

 

[Metroid_Hybrid]

Entirely ignored the point I just brought up, but alright.

Let me put in a more civilized manner:

By banning discussion of (example) homophobia, staff will be entirely removing a gay user's any and all capability of self-defense in the forums that doesn't rely on the staff for (say, verbal defense). In the same vein, banning discussion of trans topics in general will straight up disallow actual trans users in here from talking about their own lives in the appropriate spaces for doing so (say, private profile posts, or discussion threads dedicated to talking about one's experiences with something irl).

Being gay or trans or whatever slur you call us under the sheets is not a political statement, it's existence. No one chooses to exist, no one chooses to be born, and no one chooses who they are or how they identify, they're wired that way.

I'm not bisexual because I want to stand out or "make a statement", I'm bisexual because I'm attracted to men and women alike.

I think y'all getting hung up on the word "ban."
But I'll reiterate: Why should contemporary sexual politics invade everything?

No slurs were used by me... and I don't want to see that stuff anymore than you (or I for that matter) would want to see passages from various religious texts being posted..

 

[Aldia Aldia]

Why should contemporary sexual politics invade everything?

Why should you care about what other people discuss under topics that don't affect you in any way?