The much argued question, perhaps the most argued question when it comes to video games and reality. People often quote Roger Ebert saying that video games have not moved from craftsmanship to art (though every time I read the quote anywhere it's from someone who supposes that Ebert abhors video games, which is untrue, but I digress.)
Art itself is pretty difficult to define. People's presuppositions on what art should or shouldn't be has hindered any chance of a consensus definition, sadly. The definition is simultaneously stretched as thin as it can and so opaque and rigid that the only 'art' that exists are those that stick to some tradition, whatever it may be.
When even a constructed language could be considered by some as a minimalist art piece (Toki Pona), it's pretty evident how radical one individual's conception of art may be from another. That's what makes this thread especially interesting.
Being art is usually primarily enjoyed for its 'beauty' (already something extremely subjective and emotional), we'd have to carry the supposition that art has to be beautiful to someone. With that, I'd consider games, even stuff as simple as Galaga or Mappy, art. Maybe even Combat on the Atari 2600 or Pong. I'd even consider the avant-garde refuse that permeates the art world (like Warhol's "Empire") art, because there are those who find it beautiful. Bad art, but art (not to say all kinds of modern art are bad, see my thread in the music section).
It's an interesting discourse but one that's being hijacked as a motte and bailey fallacy by... some. If you admit video games are art, those folks will come back with "That means video games are inherently political! Checkm8!". Kind of a bummer because it's an actually interesting discussion to have, or so I believe. The argument is that because art is inspired by the human condition, it is political. I disagree greatly.
I believe that an idea is distinct from the way it manifests in our world. Just as I think a staunch leftist could appreciate Western classical music or old architecture for what it is, I think a conservative could similarly appreciate things like surrealist cinema or Rock In Opposition. That's turned off a lot of people from an honest discourse about the matter. Being this place is super apolitical, I thought bringing it up here is worth a shot.
What do you think?
Art itself is pretty difficult to define. People's presuppositions on what art should or shouldn't be has hindered any chance of a consensus definition, sadly. The definition is simultaneously stretched as thin as it can and so opaque and rigid that the only 'art' that exists are those that stick to some tradition, whatever it may be.
When even a constructed language could be considered by some as a minimalist art piece (Toki Pona), it's pretty evident how radical one individual's conception of art may be from another. That's what makes this thread especially interesting.
Being art is usually primarily enjoyed for its 'beauty' (already something extremely subjective and emotional), we'd have to carry the supposition that art has to be beautiful to someone. With that, I'd consider games, even stuff as simple as Galaga or Mappy, art. Maybe even Combat on the Atari 2600 or Pong. I'd even consider the avant-garde refuse that permeates the art world (like Warhol's "Empire") art, because there are those who find it beautiful. Bad art, but art (not to say all kinds of modern art are bad, see my thread in the music section).
It's an interesting discourse but one that's being hijacked as a motte and bailey fallacy by... some. If you admit video games are art, those folks will come back with "That means video games are inherently political! Checkm8!". Kind of a bummer because it's an actually interesting discussion to have, or so I believe. The argument is that because art is inspired by the human condition, it is political. I disagree greatly.
I believe that an idea is distinct from the way it manifests in our world. Just as I think a staunch leftist could appreciate Western classical music or old architecture for what it is, I think a conservative could similarly appreciate things like surrealist cinema or Rock In Opposition. That's turned off a lot of people from an honest discourse about the matter. Being this place is super apolitical, I thought bringing it up here is worth a shot.
What do you think?
