Final Fantasy Megathread

[Yuki Senoue]

Why are you all discussing about things that were confirmed a long time ago?

It was Sephiroth who was controlling Jenova!

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Ultimania Omega translation by Shinra Archeology https://www.shinraarchaeology.com/guides.html

 

[Strategist Strategist]

The true nature of Jenova was shrouded in mystery in the OG FF7 as far as I can remember. But we do know from the flashback that Sephiroth wasn't the same after finding out about his true nature and coming in contact with Jenova, so there's some credence to that.

I'd say President Shinra and Hojo are equally strong villains as far as doing despicable things.

 

[Deleted member 61046]

This is the true villain of Final Fantasy 7:

 

[Yuki Senoue]

It's been too long since I played this game. I remember it as you were part of a terrorist group, rather a religious cult who is crazy enough to believe planet is alive or something, so to prevent people from "hurting the planet" you were destroying power stations because "they ruin environment" because you love nature lol, because of it your terrorist ideology to protect nature is way important than innocent people's lives because every time you destroy a part of the city they die and then you ironically ruin envoirement further so much the solar system got angry and sent meteor to the world just to defeat you but then you also defeated meteor (what?) but in the end you ended whole humanity's progression just because of your evil religious cult. As a result your whole actions make people live like monkeys as they get back to living in caves. The game is more like "Native American Fantasy 7". Do I remember wrong? lololol

FF7's woke idea due to popular idea of "climate change is dangerous so we gotta save the environment" made the game seem cringe and dull, not to mention the whole game seems "wrong". They could also develop a video game about saving animals because back then it was a huge thing to see monkeys on tv as everyone cared about animal's right and whatnot woke BS lol.

Stop using drugs, they're bad for your health. And stop watching grifters in youtube

 

[Deleted member 77791]

Stop using drugs, they're bad for your health. And stop watching grifters in youtube

Just admit you as the player is the villain of FF7 lol. To get the good ending in the game all you have to do is as soon as you learn your evil plan just turn off the game and throw the game out of the window lololol.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

I remember listening to a video essay that said Sephiroth is just a corpse puppeteered by Jenova, and that's why he's very quiet outside of flashbacks. Which does make sense, and stuck with me.

Well, this essay was wrong. The devs confirmed Sephiroth was controlling Jenova.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

Just admit you as the player is the villain of FF7 lol. To get the good ending in the game all you have to do is as soon as you learn your evil plan just turn off the game and throw the game out of the window lololol.

Life is not that simple. Every freedom fighter is another country's terrorist. In order for the American founding fathers to free themselves from English colonialism they had to destroy British goods (tea) and kill British soldiers. I'm sure they weren't viewed kindly by British society at large. Same with Simon Bolivar and his independence movements around Latin America. The Spanish monarchy wasn't viewing those actions kindly and those people were considered enemies of the state.

It is a nuanced story where the "good guys" are on the grey path in order to fight a tyranical government. Avalanche is a eco-terrorist group because they have no other alternative to fight the practices of Shinra. Those practices will lead to the end of the world because of the depletion of Mako energy.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

Did the devs explain why he fought with Sora from Kingdom Hearts or the cast of super smash bros?

What does it have to do with anything?

 

[Yuki Senoue]

I just thought you may know

Aren't Smash Bros just a kid playing with their action figures?

And need to check Kingdom Hearts Ultimanias, but I never found translations of these books

 

[Hourai]

Well, this essay was wrong. The devs confirmed Sephiroth was controlling Jenova.

I'm not particularly interested in what people have to say outside the game. If I recall correctly, the game doesn't really suggest that, in the same way it doesn't take a stance on the support of Jenova controlling Sephiroth. If it was important enough to make it known to be fact, they should've put it in.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

I'm not particularly interested in what people have to say outside the game. If I recall correctly, the game doesn't really suggest that, in the same way it doesn't take a stance on the support of Jenova controlling Sephiroth. If it was important enough to make it known to be fact, they should've put it in.

That is how I feel about it and I don't have a lot of respect for the FF7 extended universe content since it didn't come from the mind of the OG FF7 team.

 

[Deleted member 77791]

Life is not that simple. Every freedom fighter is another country's terrorist. In order for the American founding fathers to free themselves from English colonialism they had to destroy British goods (tea) and kill British soldiers. I'm sure they weren't viewed kindly by British society at large. Same with Simon Bolivar and his independence movements around Latin America. The Spanish monarchy wasn't viewing those actions kindly and those people were considered enemies of the state.

It is a nuanced story where the "good guys" are on the grey path in order to fight a tyranical government. Avalanche is a eco-terrorist group because they have no other alternative to fight the practices of Shinra. Those practices will lead to the end of the world because of the depletion of Mako energy.

I have no sense of morality so I go with the objective definition of what is a terrorist lol.

I initially stated I don't remember about the game much so naturally what I remember is what I understand, of course it could be a misunderstanding.

Or I was longed to be a villain in a RPG. I'm always rather tired of they spam "chosen one good hero save the day from evil" RPGs. I wanna be evil, just to have fun. Something for a change lol.

Despite you are the bad guy (so it seems) FF7 seemed dull because it was already boring to experience climate fear in schools and news, and then the new sense of wokeness of the time that's ancient sense of wokeness now was really big "ugh" aspect of the society. Imagine living in that time and playing FF7. I'm forever biased and stained from ever liking FF7 because of the era I experienced lol. If I ever experience major amnesia, tell me to play FF7 then I may like the game lololol.

Still whole plot seems interesting, because planet can be a life form idea is can be what we may have to seriously think and investigate in our universe, yet then the childish and naive ideology of these people, being able to kill innocents doesn't make sense to me. There had to be a better way. I can say my immersion was broken.

In the end, not that I say the game is bad, it's just I don't prefer such a story. This is not my fantasy.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

I'm not particularly interested in what people have to say outside the game. If I recall correctly, the game doesn't really suggest that, in the same way it doesn't take a stance on the support of Jenova controlling Sephiroth. If it was important enough to make it known to be fact, they should've put it in.

You need to remember that FF7 OG translation was pretty bad. And there's this thing - Jenova's body and the Sephiroth Copies went to the Northern Crater, the place were Sephiroth was waiting - not to Shinra Tower, the place Jenova's body were resting.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

I have no sense of morality so I go with the objective definition of what is a terrorist lol.

I initially stated I don't remember about the game much so naturally what I remember is what I understand, of course it could be a misunderstanding.

Or I was longed to be a villain in a RPG. I'm always rather tired of they spam "chosen one good hero save the day from evil" RPGs. I wanna be evil, just to have fun. Something for a change lol.

Despite you are the bad guy (so it seems) FF7 seemed dull because it was already boring to experience climate fear in schools and news, and then the new sense of wokeness of the time that's ancient sense of wokeness now was really big "ugh" aspect of the society. Imagine living in that time and playing FF7. I'm forever biased and staind from ever liking FF7 because of the era I experienced lol.

Still whole plot seems interesting, because planet can be a life form idea is can be what we may have to seriously think and investigate in our universe, yet then the childish and naive ideology of these people, being able to kill innocents doesn't make sense to me. There had to be a better way. I can say my immersion was broken.

In the end, not that I say the game is bad, it's just I don't prefer such a story.

You aren't supposed to like their choice. It is a world building story choice to show the desperate state of people in the Midgar slums. When people choose to perform terroristic acts it is out of desperation, not because they were bored. Granted, it is kind of a complicated idea to throw in a game meant for kids, but there's a reason for it.

 

[Hourai]

You need to remember that FF7 OG translation was pretty bad. And there's this thing - Jenova's body and the Sephiroth Copies went to the Northern Crater, the place were Sephiroth was waiting - not to Shinra Tower, the place Jenova's body were resting.

I mean, you can also look at it the other way around: a perfect puppet is already at the Northern Crater, and why would you stay at a place owned by people who treat you as a science experiment? That'd be a foolish move to make.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

That is how I feel about it and I don't have a lot of respect for the FF7 extended universe content since it didn't come from the mind of the OG FF7 team.

But the writter for FF7 Advent Children, Crisis Core FF7, FFVII: The First Soldier and the FF7 remake project is Kazushige Nojima, who wrote the FF7 original story. I don't like the Compilation of FFVII either, I think it diminish the story of the OG, which was pretty good and didn't need extensions. But not let kid ourselves and say it didn't come from the same people, because it did.

You aren't supposed to like their choice. It is a world building story choice to show the desperate state of people in the Midgar slums. When people choose to perform terroristic acts it is out of desperation, not because they were bored. Granted, it is kind of a complicated idea to throw in a game meant for kids, but there's a reason for it.

I don't think they're arguing in good faith - just pay attention to their language and how they're mischaracterized the story of FFVII in their first post in this thread.

 

[Cantarella]

I'm not particularly interested in what people have to say outside the game. If I recall correctly, the game doesn't really suggest that, in the same way it doesn't take a stance on the support of Jenova controlling Sephiroth. If it was important enough to make it known to be fact, they should've put it in.

It's somewhat ambiguous, and I'm not sure that any one personality is fully 'in control,' but the game does support the idea that Sephiroth is not, like, subsumed. There's stuff to suggest he is exerting some kind of influence.

Jenovaroth makes things very personal for Cloud. Like, really goes the extra mile to twist the knife. The idea that this would be a priority for this ancient alien creature seems pretty dubious. Also, there's the fact that Jenova is assuming Sephiroth's form for most of the game. Surely Sephiroth's body is not like, the absolute most efficient solution to every solution, but it makes more sense if Sephiroth has some kind of 'say.'

Depending on how you read the final... final, post-final boss battle, it can also feel like Cloud is making one last concerted effort to shake himself from Sephiroth's will, not Jenova's.

You need to remember that FF7 OG translation was pretty bad. And there's this thing - Jenova's body and the Sephiroth Copies went to the Northern Crater, the place were Sephiroth was waiting - not to Shinra Tower, the place Jenova's body were resting.

Well, here's another example of the translation being questionable. There's no such thing as a Sephiroth copy/clone in the original game. Doesn't exist. The hooded figures are just dudes with jenova cells.
Also, by the time you're talking about, Jenova had moved, and indeed heads to the Northern Crater.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

But the writter for FF7 Advent Children, Crisis Core FF7, FFVII: The First Soldier and the FF7 remake project is Kazushige Nojima, who wrote the FF7 original story. I don't like the Compilation of FFVII either, I think it diminish the story of the OG, which was pretty good and didn't need extensions. But not let kid ourselves and say it didn't come from the same people, because it did.

Sakaguchi and Kitase were involved in the story of OG FF7. To what extent, it is unclear, but I feel like the Mako Energy and Lifestream stuff came from Sakaguchi, since similar plot points appeared in Chrono Trigger and FF:Spirits Within.

 

[Deleted member 77791]

You aren't supposed to like their choice. It is a world building story choice to show the desperate state of people in the Midgar slums. When people choose to perform terroristic acts it is out of desperation, not because they were bored. Granted, it is kind of a complicated idea to throw in a game meant for kids, but there's a reason for it.

Hmm, I rather ignored their choices, found the situations boring.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

Well, here's another example of the translation being questionable. There's no such thing as a Sephiroth copy/clone in the original game. Doesn't exist. The hooded figures are just dudes with jenova cells.
Also, by the time you're talking about, Jenova had moved, and indeed heads to the Northern Crater.

No, the "Sephiroth Copies" did exist in the original game: while "clone" is in fact a misnomer given by the translation, I checked a dump of the japanese script and Hojo uses the expression "Sephiroth Copy" セフィロス・コピー

I mean, you can also look at it the other way around: a perfect puppet is already at the Northern Crater, and why would you stay at a place owned by people who treat you as a science experiment? That'd be a foolish move to make.

So why does Jenova only starts moving only when Cloud arrives at Shinra Tower?

 

[Cantarella]

Oh, I also wanted to add: Sephiroth was injected with Jenova cells while he was a fetus. Jenova's abilities are not totally understood, but given the info we know and its nature, like, it's very unlikely that those cells just stayed 'inert.' They were growing with Sephiroth, and his body seemed to be pretty friendly'with them.

When people talk about who was in control, it tends to be framed as like, alien vs human. But it's questionable how much of Sephiroth was human in the first place. I don't think Jenova cells see him as any kind of foreign body the way they do other entities.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

No, the "Sephiroth Copies" did exist in the original game: while "clone" is in fact a misnomer given by the translation, I checked a dump of the japanese script and Hojo uses the expression "Sephiroth Copy" セフィロス・コピー

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So why does Jenova only starts moving only when Cloud arrives at Shinra Tower?

Yeah, but that's Hojo talking about his ambition to create a being 'like Sephiroth.' He also explicitly failed, both with Cloud and everyone else. There's no such being in the game. Doesn't exist, like I said. And we were talking about the Sephiroth clone(s), i.e. the hooded figures heading towards the Northern Crater. Don't think it makes any sense to call them Sephiroth copies just because that's what Hojo was trying to do any more than it makes sense to call the cake I tried to bake yesterday good because I meant to make it good (rip)

 

[MasterEn]

It's been too long since I played this game. I remember it as you were part of a terrorist group, rather a religious cult who is crazy enough to believe planet is alive or something, so to prevent people from "hurting the planet" you were destroying power stations because "they ruin environment" because you love nature lol, because of it your terrorist ideology to protect nature is way important than innocent people's lives because every time you destroy a part of the city they die and then you ironically ruin envoirement further so much the solar system got angry and sent meteor to the world just to defeat you but then you also defeated meteor (what?) but in the end you ended whole humanity's progression just because of your evil religious cult. As a result your whole actions make people live like monkeys as they get back to living in caves. The game is more like "Native American Fantasy 7". Do I remember wrong? lololol

FF7's woke idea due to popular idea of "climate change is dangerous so we gotta save the environment" made the game seem cringe and dull, not to mention the whole game seems "wrong". They could also develop a video game about saving animals because back then it was a huge thing to see monkeys on tv as everyone cared about animal's right and whatnot woke BS lol.

the "cult" stuff isn't really noticeable in ff7. you can see some stuff like that in crisis core.
you did pretty much summarize the game's story perfectly. 3 discs in one paragraph.

the fact that ff7 is coherent enough for us to even deduce that part of its story is about environmentalism is probably nothing short of a miracle, considering its short production time after about a year's worth of time was wasted before deciding on a console to make the game for. the story changed several times before and while the psx was selected as the console to develop the game for.

i'm also certain that humans are extinct in the ending of ff7. not entirely sure, but midgar looks like a city indiana jones would go and visit in the ending.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

Hmm, I rather ignored their choices, found the situations boring.

the "cult" stuff isn't really noticeable in ff7. you can see some stuff like that in crisis core.
you did pretty much summarize the game's story perfectly. 3 discs in one paragraph.

are you sure about that? lol

 

[Cantarella]

you did pretty much summarize the game's story perfectly. 3 discs in one paragraph.

in what sense. the only part of that that was true was that you do, in fact, blow up stuff at the very beginning of the game

as to the ending, idk it's ambiguous but I always interpreted it as humans learning to live with nature, in which case there's no need for a city like Midgar. don't care what that goon Kitase says.

Also, that entire post-credits scene is punctuated by children laughing. Seems like an odd thing to intentionally put in as the very last sfx of your game if all humans are dead.

 

[Deleted member 77791]

the "cult" stuff isn't really noticeable in ff7. you can see some stuff like that in crisis core.
you did pretty much summarize the game's story perfectly. 3 discs in one paragraph.

the fact that ff7 is coherent enough for us to even deduce that part of its story is about environmentalism is probably nothing short of a miracle, considering its short production time after about a year's worth of time was wasted before deciding on a console to make the game for. the story changed several times before and while the psx was selected as the console to develop the game for.

i'm also certain that humans are extinct in the ending of ff7. not entirely sure, but midgar looks like a city indiana jones would go and visit in the ending.

Wow, I was really conflicted if I'm even able to remember the game that much lol. But I admit I have no idea of the characters people mentioned here. According to what they say these people seem like the real villain. I mean the game seem like making you look bad but then you learn you were actually right. Then perhaps great attractive aspect of the game is the relief you feel that you weren't bad, whatever bad happened because of the real villain. What a twist lol.

But gotta admit they releasing such a game at the time is admirable. I think it was a huge risk, but ended up being loved so dearly. I love the way how Square games aim to present players so many great different experiences in their video games.