Final Fantasy Megathread

[MasterEn]

in what sense. the only part of that that was true was that you do, in fact, blow up stuff at the very beginning of the game

as to the ending, idk it's ambiguous but I always interpreted it as humans learning to live with nature, in which case there's no need for a city like Midgar. don't care what that goon Kitase says.

Also, that entire post-credits scene is punctuated by children laughing. Seems like an odd thing to intentionally put in as the very last sfx of your game if all humans are dead.

i got to the final battle but i was under leveled by a lot so i couldn't beat safer sephiroth; but i did watch the movie and it opens with midgar being covered in plants; so i assumed that it was just a shiny version of the game's ending cutscene.

they could be ghosts; the final fantasy games share a universe, and ghosts do exist in the games. so, ghost kids laughing wouldn't be too unusual. probably someone trying to make a point or something.

i could try to summarize the game if you think valosagutas didn't do a good enough job of it.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

they could be ghosts; the final fantasy games share a universe, and ghosts do exist in the games. so, ghost kids laughing wouldn't be too unusual. probably someone trying to make a point or something.

gonna need a quote on that one bro.

i could try to summarize the game if you think valosagutas didn't do a good enough job of it.

eh, nah, take a break. You guys did a fine job.

 

[MasterEn]

gonna need a quote on that one bro.

ffx is the prequel to ff7, as stated by Nomura himself and ff4 the after years confirms that several of the games, 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 existed at some point in time, though it is heavily implied that those worlds are destroyed and gone at that point.

 

[soulsas]

The true villain is capitalism, since Shinra exploits the planet.
Sephirot as a Shinra SOLDIER, he would technically be an agent of a right-wing, pro-corporate authoritarian regime — although I think his own political philosophy, which led to the Nibelheim incident, is largely apolitical, or at least apathetically complacent with the institution he serves.
Post-Nibelheim? One could argue that Sephiroth would be an anarchist in the broadest, though most extreme, sense of the term, seeking to overthrow the established world order (like Barret), but only as a means to a greater end: proclaiming himself the world's destroyer/god-ruler.
I dropped a bomb and ran away lol.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

ffx is the prequel to ff7, as stated by Nomura himself and ff4 the after years confirms that several of the games, 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 existed at some point in time, though it is heavily implied that those worlds are destroyed and gone at that point.

Yeah considering that Nomura is a FF terrorist and the story of FF7 was a collaboration between Kitase, Sakaguchi and Nojima, I think his thoughts about what is canon can be safely ignored.

 

[Cantarella]

well, we can try to enter the brains of the developers and suss out which possibility is more likely.

universe 1: i will put in the sound of children's laughter after this shot of an empty city to implant the idea that 'life is finding a way'

universe 2: *creepy guy emerges from the closet covered in slime* hehehe.... ghosts...

as much as I would like more video games summaries like the one from ai ghibli guy, I can make my own by feeding a copy of the nes bootleg's script and a review of 'Dude where's my car' to a markov chain.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

Sakaguchi and Kitase were involved in the story of OG FF7. To what extent, it is unclear, but I feel like the Mako Energy and Lifestream stuff came from Sakaguchi, since similar plot points appeared in Chrono Trigger and FF:Spirits Within.

Yes, the Lifestream concept indeed came from Sakaguchi, and it was one of the things that survived in the final draft of the game. His draft was completelly different from the final game, but it already had some elements. It wasn't just Nojima who wrote the story of FFVII, but he was the person responsible for taking everyone's efforts and made sure it didn't contradict each other.

Yeah, but that's Hojo talking about his ambition to create a being 'like Sephiroth.' He also explicitly failed, both with Cloud and everyone else. There's no such being in the game. Doesn't exist, like I said. And we were talking about the Sephiroth clone(s), i.e. the hooded figures heading towards the Northern Crater. Don't think it makes any sense to call them Sephiroth copies just because that's what Hojo was trying to do any more than it makes sense to call the cake I tried to bake yesterday good because I meant to make it good (rip)

Hojo was a maniac who was full of himself. He called the hooded figures "Sephiroth Copies" because his idea was not to "clone" Sephiroth, but to "copy" the process used to create him. And he was full of misconceptions about Jenova; he was sure she was an Ancient, and we know he was dead wrong. He was always seen as a inferior scientist to Gast. He giving a nonsensical name to his little pet project was completelly in-character. Almost everything he tried to create was inhumane and a failure. And the funny thing is that Cloud WAS a success, he even says it himselft in the game, and gets somewhat annoyed by the fact the only he thought was a failure succeeded.

 

[MasterEn]

Yeah considering that Nomura is a FF terrorist and the story of FF7 was a collaboration between Kitase, Sakaguchi and Nojima, I think his thoughts about what is canon can be safely ignored.

even if you do that, ffx-2 does support this with the character shinra, who wants to make space ships and rockets to explore space; and the humans on the planet in ff7 got there by space travel.
so, its canon. whether we like it or not.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

even if you do that, ffx-2 does support this with the character shinra, who wants to make space ships and rockets to explore space; and the humans on the planet in ff7 got there by space travel.
so, its canon. whether we like it or not.

I choose to make everything in spinoffs and what Nomura says un-canon just to enhance my enjoyment of the Final Fantasy series. But you do you.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

ffx is the prequel to ff7, as stated by Nomura himself and ff4 the after years confirms that several of the games, 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 existed at some point in time, though it is heavily implied that those worlds are destroyed and gone at that point.

It wasn't Nomura who said that! It was Nojima! People believe everything, please, check your sources!

AND IT WAS A JOKE!

Shinra (Final Fantasy X-2)

Shinra is a young Al Bhed boy who serves aboard the Celsius in Final Fantasy X-2. A technical prodigy, he designed the Garment Grid system and the CommSphere communicators, helps decode the various spheres the Gullwings locate, and designs a display sphere for Yuna's concert. Shinra rewards the...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

In an interview with a French Final Fantasy website Finaland Nojima commented on the link thusly: "This story is a bit of a joke. When we created FFX-2, we wanted to create something, a totally new world. Except that when I created it, I realized that it looked a lot like FFVII... But without realizing it. Afterwards, when it was officially said in Ultimania, it took a completely gigantic proportion when it was just an anecdote."

And someone who played FF4TAY can confirm it? I don't believe this claim at all.

 

[MasterEn]

I choose to make everything in spinoffs and what Nomura says un-canon just to enhance my enjoyment of the Final Fantasy series. But you do you.

i think most people do that nowadays. with most properties and series.
and going by what i've read about the later installments of some of the final fantasy properties, ignoring everything before or after the mainline game entry is probably for the best.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

It wasn't Nomura who said that! It was Nojima! People believe everything, please, check your sources!

AND IT WAS A JOKE!

Shinra (Final Fantasy X-2)

Shinra is a young Al Bhed boy who serves aboard the Celsius in Final Fantasy X-2. A technical prodigy, he designed the Garment Grid system and the CommSphere communicators, helps decode the various spheres the Gullwings locate, and designs a display sphere for Yuna's concert. Shinra rewards the...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

In an interview with a French Final Fantasy website Finaland Nojima commented on the link thusly: "This story is a bit of a joke. When we created FFX-2, we wanted to create something, a totally new world. Except that when I created it, I realized that it looked a lot like FFVII... But without realizing it. Afterwards, when it was officially said in Ultimania, it took a completely gigantic proportion when it was just an anecdote."

And someone who played FF4TAY can confirm it? I don't believe this claim at all.

oh, i didn't know that someone else said that. i was certain that nomura said it. that's one of the few names that i've heard of associated with final fantasy. sorry about that.
not sure how the world of ffx looks like ff7. i'll look at some maps. seems weird to confuse the maps of your company's games, but it could happen.
i got the psp version of ff4 and i hadn't played the sequel game before, so i checked it out. it would have been much better as a stand alone game instead of a sequel to the best game in the series.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

as to the ending, idk it's ambiguous but I always interpreted it as humans learning to live with nature, in which case there's no need for a city like Midgar. don't care what that goon Kitase says.

Also, that entire post-credits scene is punctuated by children laughing. Seems like an odd thing to intentionally put in as the very last sfx of your game if all humans are dead.

What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.

Here's the complete interview: https://www.shinraarchaeology.com/resources/article_pdfs/dreamaga_oct03.pdf

 

[Strategist Strategist]

i think most people do that nowadays. with most properties and series.
and going by what i've read about the later installments of some of the final fantasy properties, ignoring everything before or after the mainline game entry is probably for the best.

Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.

 

[Yuki Senoue]

Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.

This is something I agree wholeheartedly. FFVII OG story is great - it just need a better English localization. No need for the Compilation at all.

I respect Nomura and Nojima a lot, but the Compilation is completelly unnecessary.

 

[Cantarella]

What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Press Clippings

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]

I don't really attach much weight to a flippant statement made ten years after the fact. Feel similarly about statements from most of these guys.

The smoke plumes disappearing again is funny though.

 

[MasterEn]

What about the secret ending of dirge of cerberus what is it leading to?

i don't think anyone knows. it's just kind of there. i'll take a look around on google and see if someone has found or figured out anything about it.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

i did some checking. there's not much out there about the secret ending of dirge of cerberus. i think everyone gave up on there being more to it after a few years passed by.
i found this reddit post, where some people chat about the ending and have some theories about it. not much else though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/vmqeyt/im_surprised_that_i_havent_come_across_many/

 

[Yuki Senoue]

not sure how the world of ffx looks like ff7. i'll look at some maps. seems weird to confuse the maps of your company's games, but it could happen.

Nojima NEVER said it was the same world. He said "After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."


And you know, it is not something that important. It is just Nojima having some fun with two games he worked on.

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Press Clippings

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years' worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I'll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it's a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]

Thanks! And yes, Kitase is full of shit here 8D

 

[MasterEn]

Nojima NEVER said it was the same world. He said "After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think."


And you know, it is not something that important. It is just Nojima having some fun with two games he worked on.

i think he more or less got mixed up on the games. 7, 8, 9, tactics and 10 were all in development at the same time. i read the wiki link that you left and it reminded me of that when i was reading it.

at least, that's what i think might have happened. working on 2 or more games directly might get some one mixed up a bit on each game specifically.

 

[Deleted member 525181]

The true antagonist is obviously Nomura and Square Enix for promising a remake 10 years ago and then rug-pulling us via "it's actually an ARPG sequel with time travel shit lol" and we are still waiting for them to finish it.

This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.

 

[MasterEn]

This is the only real answer, such a disappointment... They butchered Final Fantasy VII, all because of money; that is why they split the game into 3 parts. Greedy fuckers.

they straight up said several years ago that they would only remake ff7 if they really needed the money.
they needed the money apparently.

 

[Strategist Strategist]

they straight up said several years ago that they would only remake ff7 if they really needed the money.
they needed the money apparently.

Square Enix has some serious mismanagement problems. All their games cost a bajilion dollars to make and are disappointments even when they sell like 3+ million copies. They really need a clean sweep of management and to remove Nomura from the director chair. If they don't do that, they'll continue to stagnate.

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

The true vilain in any RPG is always the main caracter.

Murdering psychopath committing ecocide on anything living on the world map. Absorbing experience from killing everything like a vampire leech.

 

[Caped_Plumber]

lots of interesting ideas going around…

Hojo is evil for sure or at least he severely lacks any sense of empathy/ morality … but the arch nemesis?… probably not

It’s an interesting one, and to the people suggesting that Jenova is puppeteering the corpse of a dead Sephiroth … I would ask: to what end? Why would she do that?

In my view, Sephiroth isn’t just able to resist Jenova’s influence, but rather he is the opposite of a puppet. His will is greater than Jenova and she becomes subordinate to his plans. He’s nothing like the other experiments. He the polar opposite of those mindless puppets that aimlessly wander towards the reunion…

Having said that, Jenova is described as a “calamity from the skies” who caused destruction and was feeding off of the planet… Sephiroth seeks to damage and use the planet as a vessel to explore the cosmos…

Sephiroth is certainly the dominant force … it is his sheer will coupled with his supernatural abilities which enable him to regenerate in the northen crater… to me, that’s got to be Sephiroth. Jenova has no reason to regenerate his image. That is Sephiroth.

But is the dominate force always the one in control? What about influence, suggestion, manipulation or soft power? Whose goals does Sephiroth adopt and therefore who is truly calling the shots?

It’s not so clear cut when you think of it that way…

The avalanche stuff - yes they’re wrong. And it’s a story telling device - these people are desperate. Avalanche regularly sympathise with the plight of those living under the shadow of midgard’s giant floating city. We aren’t supposed to agree with everything avalanche does… and eventually they abandon those aims and if I’m not mistaken there is an air of regret and emptiness surrounding the damage they caused… but they move on to the greater mission. To saving the planet from Sephiroth…

Another interesting thing is that while Sephiroth makes use of the black materia… the question is, where did the black materia come from? We know that the planet produces materia naturally. And we know that this planet can respond to situations as needed for example, the planet created the 5 weapons probably as a defensive response to Jenova… perhaps the planet also created a black and white materia, accepting its fate that perhaps one day, it will be time to reset! But also, the white materia gives the chance to those who will keep it alive, if they are worthy. And of course Aerith is worthy. She is the antethises to Jenova. And cloud is the antithesis to Sephiroth.

No, the "Sephiroth Copies" did exist in the original game: while "clone" is in fact a misnomer given by the translation, I checked a dump of the japanese script and Hojo uses the expression "Sephiroth Copy" セフィロス・コピー

View attachment 71440


So why does Jenova only starts moving only when Cloud arrives at Shinra Tower?

good question… quite possibly it could sense her own cells in cloud and saw an opening to use cloud and his cohort in order to obtain the black materia and bring it to the northern crater… quite possibly using Sephiroth image to motivate and manipulate cloud… there is a strong suggestion however that it is Sephiroth who is in control. And he is asserting his dominance by showing himself / projecting his own image

 

[Deleted member 612095]

Yeah that's true.

 

[Caped_Plumber]

The true villain is capitalism, since Shinra exploits the planet.
Sephirot as a Shinra SOLDIER, he would technically be an agent of a right-wing, pro-corporate authoritarian regime — although I think his own political philosophy, which led to the Nibelheim incident, is largely apolitical, or at least apathetically complacent with the institution he serves.
Post-Nibelheim? One could argue that Sephiroth would be an anarchist in the broadest, though most extreme, sense of the term, seeking to overthrow the established world order (like Barret), but only as a means to a greater end: proclaiming himself the world's destroyer/god-ruler.
I dropped a bomb and ran away lol.

View attachment 71447

I’ve never considered a comparison or parallel between Barrett and Sephiroth’s ambitions. Interesting

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

What did Kitase say about it? And yes, your interpretation is the correct one: this video, at 2:07, shows a Nojima's interview where he confirms humanity survived.

Here's the complete interview: https://www.shinraarchaeology.com/resources/article_pdfs/dreamaga_oct03.pdf

That was brilliant thanks for sharing! He forgot to add the smoke … or did he? And I love the fact they had a laugh about it… (Another thing left open for your own interpretation as the player… I love it).

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2025

Yeah, sometimes these games are better when they leave things unexplained. Like the nature of Jenova and Sepiroth's past. The constant low effort sequels and spinoffs only serve to dilute the story and make people question why the original was popular in the first place. Especially if the spinoffs are directed/written by Nomura/Nojima.

Yes! Agree totally. Those aspects of FF7 that are shrouded in mystery and yet somehow so coherently told - it creates such an air of wonder and keeps you on the edge of your seat and always wanting to know more. It’s such a delicate balance of structure, delivery/ execution and storytelling that gives you more than enough to be so invested but only just enough so the element of mystery, awe and wonder remains intact. No other game has done it quite the same as the original FF7.